Survival v. Bushcraft - What is the difference?

A box of waterproof marches and/or a Bic lighter in your pocket

I get that the post was in humour, and trust and believe I laughed, but I have personally watch three grown men fail to start a fire using a map gas torch after trying for well over an hour. Entertaining to watch but it drives the point home skills > gear. Don't think that a bic and matches guarantees you fire every time.

Personally I prefer Bic and a Ferro Rod. Bics are fantastic lighters, but I have had them fail. In one case I took one out to use and somehow like magic the ferro rod that is used to ignite the bic had vanished.
 
I usually have two or three methods of starting a fire "easily" when I am in the woods. Fire potentially is so important that I feel some redundancy is not a bad thing. Stuff gets lost. Wet. Doesn't work and so forth. Matches are usually my first choice. I try to be prepared for things I feel are important. But this is not on a AT marathon hike however where weight becomes crucial.

Having some survival tools with you is always a good thing, but you have to know how to use them. Sometimes it's nice being able to offer someone else the use of a tool when they are having difficulty.
 
I think my point was missed entirely - most likely my fault.

In short, sitting at home watching vids and planning for disaster is a fun hobby but not particularly useful. The people making the vids and selling the books and survival equipment are marketing experts.

Camping and backpacking are activities that actually prepare folks with coping skills, experience, and equipment to handle a variety of unexpected circumstances with little to no drama. There is plenty of marketing of recreational gear but at the end of the day it's actually practical stuff.

Well, I was countering that false dichotomy of bushcraft=good skills/survival=marketing bull while linking to the previous point I made about survival and bushcraft becoming one. For example, Mors Kochanski is one of the most well-respected bushcrafters, but in reality he was more of a survivalist (at least philosophically, he was a survival instructor after all). And I think it is a misconception to say that survivalism is all marketing, one could say the same about bushcraft. How much of it has become purchasing gear and going out for day hikes and doing videos of your new knife? This is partly due to the shift to Ray Mears, with very British stylings and a lot of the real action occurring behind the scenes, just not exciting and flashy like the survival programs. Ray Mears also had a tv crew with him. He's definitely a skilled and knowledgeable guy but the British tv aspect of it makes the woods a bit like a museum, and that has seriously changed the approach to camping for a lot of people.

The list of ten factors of survival is also 'practical stuff' and is just as important; perhaps even moreso, as it pertains to necessities of life rather than recreation alone. And I think it would be quite hard to look at what's going on in the world today and conclude that planning for disaster isn't particularly useful. In an instant whole communities can be threatened by a natural disaster, or millions by war. And the way of life as we know it simply cannot go on forever as there are not infinite resources and cheap energy, i.e. more energy goes into producing food now than what is extracted and the energy used is generally destructive to future land health. In bushcraft terms the world system now is the obese guy going into the woods with an oversized pack and a trailer, with cameras everywheres to broadcast himself and keep himself entertained, lighting fires scattered here and there without a care if they destroy the trees or spread wildly, tossing garbage everywheres, showing off his tools and never using them for anything practical, destroying grounds and marauding other campers' sites. How do you think such a camping trip would work out if it became a survival situation? And the big problem is, he is creating his own survival situation. So even if you think it is a waste of time others around you may be in need of those skills and ideas, or future generations at the least.
 
Immediacy is a good summation.

Bushcraft to me is either a worthwhile hobby or a lifestyle choice(think homesteading.)

Survival is "Damn! We're in a tight spot!"
 
I think there was a time when your definition of bushcraft was correct. Though it was called "outdoorsmanship" or "woodsmanship" back then.

For some people it still is. Dave Canterbury would be the obvious example. Notice lately he uses the term "woodsmanship" more and "bushcraft" less.

Since bushcraft became popular (2005-8 ?? until present), it has become merely a bunch of isolated skills that most people approach as independent hobbies. The Alone show is the penultimate example of this.

It certainly is interesting studying the evolution of outdoors skills, especially from the Victorian Era to the present.

Before I ever heard of "bushcraft," I just called it "wilderness living skills" and still do.
 
Just call it wilderness survival skills

Or woodsiness...

People get really hung up on terminology.
As someone who likes words, I get it to a certain extent.

However, I don't care too much about what label people want to use for me.
I've been referred to by people I was talking about such things to as:
-Woodsman
-Outdoorsman
-Guy who likes the outdoors
-Survivalist
-"You should see all the knives that guy has"
-Adventurer
-Outdoors enthusiast
...and a few other things that slip my mind.

As long as you know what you're up to, the labels others like to use are just that; labels other people like to use.
 
I like the term "conservationist" who uses "wilderness living skills" or bushcraft. A conservationist is concerned about many things in nature from plants to animals to land use to pollution issues and it reflects that man does modify and impact his environment.
 
The modern survival/prepper stuff is good if you are planning on riding out the collapse of society brought on by an invasion of militant married gay outlaw biker fundamentalist Muslim illegal Mexican Marxist TRANSGENDERED (edit) zombies sent by the UN during a Category 5 hurricane. :D
 
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The modern survival/prepper stuff is good if you are planning on riding out the collapse of society brought on by an invasion of militant married gay outlaw biker fundamentalist Muslim illegal Mexican Marxist zombies sent by the UN during a Category 5 hurricane. :D

Finally someone gets it!! :p;)
 
Well, I was countering that false dichotomy of bushcraft=good skills/survival=marketing bull while linking to the previous point I made about survival and bushcraft becoming one. For example, Mors Kochanski is one of the most well-respected bushcrafters, but in reality he was more of a survivalist (at least philosophically, he was a survival instructor after all). And I think it is a misconception to say that survivalism is all marketing, one could say the same about bushcraft. How much of it has become purchasing gear and going out for day hikes and doing videos of your new knife? This is partly due to the shift to Ray Mears, with very British stylings and a lot of the real action occurring behind the scenes, just not exciting and flashy like the survival programs. Ray Mears also had a tv crew with him. He's definitely a skilled and knowledgeable guy but the British tv aspect of it makes the woods a bit like a museum, and that has seriously changed the approach to camping for a lot of people.

The list of ten factors of survival is also 'practical stuff' and is just as important; perhaps even moreso, as it pertains to necessities of life rather than recreation alone. And I think it would be quite hard to look at what's going on in the world today and conclude that planning for disaster isn't particularly useful. In an instant whole communities can be threatened by a natural disaster, or millions by war. And the way of life as we know it simply cannot go on forever as there are not infinite resources and cheap energy, i.e. more energy goes into producing food now than what is extracted and the energy used is generally destructive to future land health. In bushcraft terms the world system now is the obese guy going into the woods with an oversized pack and a trailer, with cameras everywheres to broadcast himself and keep himself entertained, lighting fires scattered here and there without a care if they destroy the trees or spread wildly, tossing garbage everywheres, showing off his tools and never using them for anything practical, destroying grounds and marauding other campers' sites. How do you think such a camping trip would work out if it became a survival situation? And the big problem is, he is creating his own survival situation. So even if you think it is a waste of time others around you may be in need of those skills and ideas, or future generations at the least.

Survivalism is your tl:dr post. Camping is sleeping in the woods by choice. Bushcrafting is survival instructors/marketers trying to sell classes and gear to people who aren't scared in the slightest by a night in the woods.

Plus jdm61's post.

How's that?
 
The modern survival/prepper stuff is good if you are planning on riding out the collapse of society brought on by an invasion of militant married gay outlaw biker fundamentalist Muslim illegal Mexican Marxist TRANSGENDERED (edit) zombies sent by the UN during a Category 5 hurricane. :D

And there it is! Lmao!
 
Joe, by the way, your blades are beautiful. I'm gonna be in St. Pete October 30 at The Ale and Witch. Come out and hang!
 
I left out the possibility of a nuclear attack instigated by the Elder of Zions working in collusion with Elon Musk and the major institutional shareholders of Wal Mart because, well, thats just crazy talk.:D
And there it is! Lmao!
 
I had never heard of that place. It has apparently become the new home venue for Rich Whiteley, a local musician that used to work for my dad years ago. Are you playing, working the board or something more sinister? LOL
Joe, by the way, your blades are beautiful. I'm gonna be in St. Pete October 30 at The Ale and Witch. Come out and hang!
 
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