Survivalist's love of "batoning" with a knife seems abusive & impractical

Threads like this always amaze me. Some practice becomes popular and a bunch of people come out of the woodwork to fight for the "proper" way to use a knife.

There is no right way to use a knife, as long as you are unlikely to get hurt doing it. Knives are general use cutting, chopping, spreading, stabbing, drilling, hammering tools. They are not rare, expensive or precious in any way. If it makes people happy to use a knife in a particular way - great! We all love knives, and people finding new ways to enjoy them is awesome.


The other side of all this is that knives are also unnecessary. Plenty of folks hike and camp without a single blade on them - many prefer to not have the risk of cutting themselves when they are away from civilization. You could cook everyday without a knife in a modern kitchen.


We like knives so we discuss them as if they are important. But they aren't, and getting worked up about what people do or don't do with them is silly.
 
When I first started to "learn" about knives, I thought that batoning was very interesting, and whaled on my BK2 quite a bit for a while. I enjoyed it for a while, but now have significantly changed how I do it. I used to take the knottiest piece of wood that I could find and attack it as a challenge, I wanted to test my knife, and myself. Then... one day I just could not get the wood to split (even with the BK2). And then in a fit of logic, I used a smaller piece that I'd split off the side (a wedge), and used that to split the same piece that defied my BK2 and I in approximately 5 seconds.

In my mind, batoning is ideal for making notches, and for splitting straight grained wood up to about half the blades length in diameter (for knives that are built relatively robust). I use a folding saw for cutting wood, and use my BK9 to split wood that approaches calf/forearm size to help make fires. This helps immensely when the wood available is damp.

I have used hatchets, but find that battoning the BK9 to be more controllable for splitting that size wood and smaller at a campsite, with other people around (especially young children, as my wife and I camp with siblings with children frequently). I feel this way because you are crouched down, and the instrument that you are swinging is blunt, which means that if you miss, or a rugrat somehow surprises you from behind (and yes, I do watch for them actively, but toddlers are notorious for being difficult to track) nothing drastic would happen. I also feel that the BK9 is more useable for knife related tasks (tent/tarp pegs, feather sticks, etc).

I also find it useful for the same purposes at my parents cabin. I can break down the wood in their tinder box if it needs it, without needing to go out into the snow and grab the hatchet/axe to split larger wood.

But, I don't think that it is a good idea to try to baton whole rounds of wood.

Anyway. I clearly think that it is a useful skill, but of course used within reason.
 
JParanee said:
Way above timber line 17500 we burned yak shit
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If I baton yak shit, is that considered knife abuse?

Just kidding! I only used one knife as a baton once, just to see if I could. It was one of the Zombie Killer series from Kabar - the War Sword 9 inch (first edition). Relatively slim, standard basic high carbon steel, not overbuilt in any way; and I kept the log size to about six inches...seemed to be easier than falling off a barstool, and no adverse effects on the knife that I saw.

I can see where it can put stresses on the knife; but you can always stop and use wood to help wedge the log apart. Obviously a small saw is better; but it could be slower, too. Depending on the specifics of the situation, using a knife to baton wood would not be completely unreasonable; so it would logically behoove one to know how to do it.
 
You know, now that I think about it, I also batoned a chef's knife through a butternut squash with one of those wooden meat tenderizers, so I guess that's twice for me.

I hate cutting those things....hard skin, weird shape.....easy to have an accident if you are not careful.
 
Alnamvet68 said:
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...a little batoning never hurt anybody....

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OK.....batonning with a three inch blade....

Let's begin the story with the size of what you were batonning, and we can go from there.
 
Alnamvet68 said:
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...a little batoning never hurt anybody....

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That must have been the limited edition glass bladed version! I wonder why they only made so few.. lol

I love seeing pictures of knives that are completely wrecked like that. Especially the branded ones all the guys rave about, Beckers, Spydercos, Ka bars etc. Fills me with much deep seeded evil joy. :)

Can we have some more pictures like that please?

here's one I found ages ago, the ultimate holey spyderco with extra uneeded holes!



I hear they changed the design though and moved the tang holes lower.. Quite funny though seeing as it was developed over at www.bushcraftuk.com and there are a load of knowledgeable and experienced makers and users over there and it still died when it was used to baton.


And for the record, I have broken a few knives, but never from the baton-ing technique.

Keep the dead blades coming though, my morbid side wants to see a necropolis of shattered steel! :D
 
Alnamvet68 said:
What size would you like?

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They all have a story. Let's start with the one that I asked about, please...the ESEE-3. Looks like an explosive break, unlike the clean break on the other one. Knot in the wood, combined with overly fast, aggressive hammering? Or, did you lift the log with the knife inside and bring it down to hammer on the ground?
 
JParanee said:
Red

Just having some fun with Tuco23 :)

I love Colorado
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Why do you keep mentioning Colorado? I said I was from Colorado only because it’s made me too familiar with rich guys who go on guided hunting vacations and think it makes them an expert on all things outdoors. After a couple weeks of codling and handholding and beer drinking they go home feeling like Daniel Boone. If I had a nickel… Now, I am not saying that is you. You could be the most knowledgeable person in the world. However posting pictures of Alaska doesn’t refute the case for batoning.

I stand by my original point, which is that batoning is appropriate in some situations for some people. And that goes beyond survival situations. Sometimes, not all the time but sometimes, it is the most practical technique to use. And that holds true even if YouTube is making it more popular than it used to be (or ought to be).
 
Alnamvet68 said:
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about...a little batoning never hurt anybody....

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Well, did it hurt anyone? Or did the owner just have to resort to using one of 50 other knives after a 1095 58 Rc blade shattered like a flower pot?
 
I have not read the thread, maybe tonight.

I have batoned around the house with a broken corn knife which I've made into a yard work knife. It's not much thicker than a kitchen knife and yet it held up surprisingly well for a year or two. I finally chipped it by twisting it while in wood.

I prolly wouldn't baton with a knife of much value. Still, this was fun to do. I had a knife on my belt which dug weeds, chopped bushes, cut kindling and small wood for winter. Loads of fun!

The only "improper" use of a knife is unsafe use if it's your knife.

 
Someone musta dropped this on the page before

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Rasco said:
Since I've joined the forums, I've seen many, many more posts about how "batoning is dumb / abuse" than I have about it's virtues, so I'd say it's pretty much become a meme at this point.
Usually with the tone of "I'm an old-school guy, I don't understand this batoning business. Seems stupid to me." >_>
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No joke. Well, it is pretty funny to hear "Those darn kids!" from the fuds. :D
JParanee said:
I fnd it funny that this new generation of outdoorsman think they have invented anything
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What was invented? Re-discovered is more apt I think. The bowie knife was originally a woods knife. Then you have the Hudson bay knife. The saex, the kukri...etc. Throughout history you have large knives designed to be wood working tools in some fashion. Plus, the question "why risk your only knife" seems odd and is really just spin when you consider a lot of people on this site have more than one knife on them while sitting in their office in front of a computer. LOL

Baton or don't. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
 
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