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Oh man, great reminder and solid synopsis.
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Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame
- Thread starter ncrockclimb
- Start date
Someone actually paid Millit and they created the Reif Knives.
I'm thinking Guy was a pain in the butt and they didn't prioritize his orders.
All Guy had to do was pay for parts, assemble a handle, and ship...he couldn't do that.
It looks like Beachmaster created a nice video about the small knives he owns. One of those knives is a GSO 3.5 20CV knife and he gave it good marks, while acknowledging Survive's issues. I know that's not good enough for you guys, but he was very even handed about it.
Edited: verb tense change.
Here's a link to the video if you want to watch:
Edited: verb tense change.
Here's a link to the video if you want to watch:
Last edited:
I'm curious what you think you will accomplish with this? Does it in any way change all the terrible behavior of the survive shysters? Do you think that everyone looking at this thread will suddenly have some sort of epiphany, slap themselves in the head and say, "oh now I get it, it will be totally worth it getting ripped off by survive? " What is your endgame?
Nuance seems to be in short supply in this echo chamber so I try to bring in some different points of view. The principal actors in this thread are like the encyclopedia salesman: "Sir, you can not buy just one volume of the 'Sh!t On and Slander Survive Knives' set. You have to buy the whole set or nothing at all. And if you don't want to buy the whole set, then you must be against the truth."
Two things can be true at the same time: 1. Survive makes good knives. 2. Survive has a terrible record in order fulfillment and customer service. What I see in this thread is point 2 negates point 1, which is a fallacy.
And I seem to remember Beachmaster was called a shill. I'm providing this evidence where he goes on record and states while Survive makes a good knife, he unequivocally believes Survive has some major issues they have to fix. That doesn't seem like shilling behavior to me. I guess a lot of people here want him to denounce Survive as many here have done. But he refuses to do that, instead he opts to keep a more objective view point. This is what I hope some will do too. For one to have as much vitriol as what I witnessed here, I have to wonder is it really worth it to feel that bitter over a $300 knife? That's a question everyone has to answer for themselves.
Likewise, why would anyone spend $300 on the hope of receiving a knife? There are plenty of quality knife makers out there who actually deliver their products. Ignoring their long overdue orders, their orders from 2020 and 2021 have over 25% of orders outstanding. Their 2022 and 2023 orders have over 50% outstanding.
It's not like Survive has a magical product.
It has already been said but I will say it again anyway. Point one is entirely irrelevant if point 2 is true. Survive could be building Excalibur but if they never ship it AND keep the money paid for it then it doesn't matter how good their product is, it merely makes them talented thieves. Why would you wish to speak up for thieves?
As for Mr. Beachmaster did he receive free products from survive or not? Did his buddy put money into the company or not? I have no idea, but if the answer to either question is yes, than at the very least his objectivity is questionable. If he is allowing his objectivity to be in doubt and he is selling product reviews that makes his judgement questionable as well wouldn't you say?
The point of this thread is to make sure that as many people as possible are aware that they are likely to get ripped off if they are foolish enough to send money to survive. Do you support that goal or not?
You like most shills tend to ignore the elephant in the room.
Point 2 definitely negates point 1 given SK!’s history of not fulfilling orders, some dating back 7, 8, 9 years.
The never ending excuses of why they consistently fail to deliver, whether it’s Millets, Peters, Niagara, or a sheath issue again
, the only thing consistent in all of this is SK’s refusal to accept any responsibility for their failures as a company.How many requests for refunds have been ignored, there are countless posts on numerous media platforms confirming this.
The ONLY reason for a company to not issue a requested refund for an unfulfilled order is because they are broke and have no cash flow… Ponzi scheme
Speaking of refunds, there was a time that SK! charged a restocking fee for refund requests on orders that weren’t even made yet, I believe Ellie spun a bunch of word salad trying to clean that shit up.
SK! considers an issued refund a completed order… how anyone can spin that fallacy in their head is beyond me.
You yourself admit they have a terrible record of order fulfillment and customer service and yet you continue to bang the drum for them… and you wonder why most think you’re nothing more than a shill, for anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together the answer should be obvious.
You'll have to forgive me if I don't watch the video of a guy who was crowing about how he hopes we'll watch his video because he gets financial benefit from clicks and views. Dude can get a real job, I'm not supporting him or his channel.
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So, what I'm taking from reading the apologists is something akin to the old saw which stated that Mussolini kept the trains running on time. (He actually didn't.)
But let's say he had. Would that be sufficient basis to overlook everything else about the man and the regime?
It matters not if Guy actually could make a good knife. A good knife received from a person of low character is hardly something worth cherishing.
Personally, I've purged my collection of any knives made by individuals I learned were disreputable, and either sold them at a loss or gave them away.
If a maker's having talent is a good enough reason to overlook character and integrity...well, you dwell in a different place from where I choose to live.
(But the fact remains that years of orders, and requests for refund, have gone unfulfilled...while other makers have worked with the same materials over the same period of time and successfully satisfied their customers and filled their orders.)
But let's say he had. Would that be sufficient basis to overlook everything else about the man and the regime?
It matters not if Guy actually could make a good knife. A good knife received from a person of low character is hardly something worth cherishing.
Personally, I've purged my collection of any knives made by individuals I learned were disreputable, and either sold them at a loss or gave them away.
If a maker's having talent is a good enough reason to overlook character and integrity...well, you dwell in a different place from where I choose to live.
(But the fact remains that years of orders, and requests for refund, have gone unfulfilled...while other makers have worked with the same materials over the same period of time and successfully satisfied their customers and filled their orders.)
Since you mentioned @beachmaster, I believe he mentioned something about honor in an earlier post, where’s the honor let alone a good conscience in promoting for a company with the negative history that SK! has… a negative history that they have earned by their actions.
You say that he states that they make a good knife but have major issues to fix, SK! has had years to fix those issues and have yet to do so… the only logical explanation for not fixing the issues are they’re either inept or just don’t care as long as the uninformed are willing to send them interest free loans for a knife that has a “who the hell knows when you’ll get it” delivery date.
That being said, I’ll have to disagree with your “shilling behavior” and “objective view point” comments, it’s obvious that one is and one isn’t.
One of SK!’s problems from the beginning was taking payments up front and lying about delivery dates, a problem that still exists to this day… again, why promote for a company like this.
There are several companies/makers that build a good knife and are upfront about their delivery times.
RMK… 5 to 6 year wait with a $50 deposit last I checked, payment in full not due until the order is complete.
CRK… again a 5 to 6 year wait and unless I’m mistaken there’s no deposit required and payment in full not due until the order is complete.
WK… a 4 to 9 month wait depending on what is ordered with no deposit required and again payment in full not due until the order is complete.
Those are just a few of the many companies/makers that in my opinion are much more deserving of the free promo time that was given to SK!.
braillediver
Gold Member
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- Oct 6, 2007
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A knife is a tool. Hardly essential in most peoples lives. As such any properly made knife of good quality materials will do. Price would be a major factor in choice.
The only reason I chose to use + have custom knives is the connection to the maker. That indelible bond to someone who choses to make something special. Executes a vision and stands behind it. The knowledge if it breaks or fails me the maker will make it right. Otherwise an Opinel or Mora is a better choice.
Survive just insults that whole principle and their behavior is indefensible.
The only reason I chose to use + have custom knives is the connection to the maker. That indelible bond to someone who choses to make something special. Executes a vision and stands behind it. The knowledge if it breaks or fails me the maker will make it right. Otherwise an Opinel or Mora is a better choice.
Survive just insults that whole principle and their behavior is indefensible.
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This... I happen to have a little experience in running a small business. While I have a list of reasons longer than the boom on my truck that our timelines suck, I still sleep soundly at night knowing that if someone gets upset that my timeline gets blown, that I've NEVER asked for money up front before starting a job.
While that occasionally means we have to jump around the work list in order to come up with the cash flow to buy fuel, if I die today, at least my integrity is still intact.
William Collins takes full payment up front (at least for my WCSK) and a 10 month wait on that WCSK, but he delivers. He also does regular video updates where he states where he is in the order numbers, what's going out, etc. At the same time he is making some new products and is still keeping to his promised delivery schedule.
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^^^ this. 100%
The issues is not the knives. Trying to shift focus to the product (which you might or might not get) is what S!K wants.
What every customer needs to know is that S!K lies and has an unethical business model. A mistake in estimating lead times in 2014 could be forgiven. S!K's record is a decade of lies, obfuscation, blaming others, horrible communication after the sale, dodging refunds and outstanding orders from 2015 (and every year since).
Guy has shown us who he is. A new partner is not going to change Guy.
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Nuance? nuance?
Who cares about how good a non-existent knife is?
How's that for some nuance?
I hope S!K goes down in flames and I can't wait to see the lawsuits between the partners as it becomes every man for himself.