Survive GSO 2.7?

[archieblue]

You don't like the kydex from CPK? I love it but would be interested to hear what you dislike.

I like my sheath to be a simple kydex taco cut as low profile as possible with holes spaced for a small teklok/q-clip. A good example would be the stock kydex on the Spyderco Waterway. But I would still trim down some of the excess on the outside of the grommets.
member

 

[craytab]

View attachment 1239255 View attachment 1239256

I like my sheath to be a simple kydex taco cut as low profile as possible with holes spaced for a small teklok/q-clip. A good example would be the stock kydex on the Spyderco Waterway. But I would still trim down some of the excess on the outside of the grommets.
member

I love a small form factor kydex, boltaron, or even molded plastic sheath (Esee). I am a bit of a sheath snob.

The kydex for the original cpk field knife is just about perfect. Note the sheath size compared to the knife in the fourth pic. Also compare it to the south fork sheath, which is about the same size as the waterway's. On a larger knife like the hdfk, I don't mind a little excess material around the edge as the knife is large already and I carry a large like that differently on my belt than my smaller knives. Here's some examples of what I have and use:

I had an original 7/7. While the sheath was well made, there was too much extra material around the edges, even for a large knife (comparable in size to the hdfk). The belt clip thingy was an absolute joke.

Btw, spyderco uses boltaron, not kydex, on most of their non-molded plastic sheaths (like the waterway). Not much of a difference but it is a different texture.

 

[archieblue]

Yeah the GSO sheath is way too bulky and the molded belt clip is close to worthless. I really dig the q-clip too.

I thought I would also mention to the OP that the Lionsteel fixed blades are very nice! The price/quality ratio is close to unbeatable but IMO need a sheath upgrade. My wife got me their M1 and it’s really great. A tad small but a fantastic little knife.

 

[craytab]

Yeah the GSO sheath is way too bulky and the molded belt clip is close to worthless. I really dig the q-clip too.

I thought I would also mention to the OP that the Lionsteel fixed blades are very nice! The price/quality ratio is close to unbeatable but IMO need a sheath upgrade. My wife got me their M1 and it’s really great. A tad small but a fantastic little knife.

I've looked at those several times. They are indeed a good option for the OP.

 

[Quiet]

Hi Sid,

Survive! Knives is still in business, they are still producing knives, still honoring refunds, still honoring warranty requests, and, from the look of it, despite all the dire predictions of their doom from very early on in the company's history (Guy Seiferd started it in 2012, iirc), it seems that they will continue producing an EXCELLENT product with a well-backed warranty for many years to come (hopefully longer than Fehrman Knives lasted, although they got out of knives for other reasons). They have never stopped producing. Last I heard (which was awhile ago, since the S!K forum got nixed), Survive! itself was only 3-4 people including Guy and Ellie, and Guy was the only one doing the sharpening, and we have no idea how may knives they have been putting out every year. Survive! Knives get their steel from Niagara, it receives HT from Peters, and manufacturing takes place at Millit Knives in Meridian, ID where S!K is now located.I am not sure what of the Millit operations wouldn't be considered "in house" since I am not sure how much of a facility S!K still has apart from Millit's facility, but they have been doing their own surface-finishing, laser-etching, and knife-building since early on. Their materials and manufacturing are top-notch. Like CPK, Survive! uses the Delta protocol for their 3V blade, but the GSO-2.7 doesn't come in that steel, iirc. And unless or until you see Dan Keffeler or Mr. Carothers come on here calling the Seiferd's "scumbags", you can assume that those doing so are talking about people they don't know and may have had no actual negative encounters with personally. Oh, and their sheaths are also awesome. They continue to maintain their website and Instagram account and rarely but occasionally post to a private FB group. They can still be reached by phone and email.

But Survive! screwed-up big-time by taking too many orders while offering delivery times-lines they couldn't make, failing and then offering new timelines that they also couldn't make, and... and... yeah, they screwed up. And that's the problem, and while the product itself is usually EXCELLENT (especially for the price), well, Quiet typed it best previously:

So there's that. I will be accused of being a "shill" for Survive! because I have always had nothing but positive interactions with the Seiferds and continue to hope for their success. Their knives have been WAY below price-point for the quality, which led to their popularity and also to their eventual denigration from failure to deliver. But, as stated previously, they are still making and shipping knives.

Now, onto the 2.7. Honestly, I don't recommend this knife, but my account is based on the previous iteration - the new design is just that, a design, and unlikely to be produced in the near future as S!K still has a number of models in the pipeline and Millit isn't making them all at once. I haven't owned a 3.5 because I didn't like the design of the original and am waiting on the updated version which may or may not start shipping before 2020.
Here is my lengthy review of the 2.7 from the passaround back in 2016: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/survive-gso-2-7-passaround-review.1433784/
In the review, you will find video of me using the knife for all manner of cutting tasks as well as bashing it through steel roofing/gutter material. In addition, I did a lot of throwing with the knife.
Here is my post summarizing my thoughts on the 2.7: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/survive-gso-2-7-passaround-review.1433784/#post-16521325
Here is my final sentence on it:


I have other small blades not included in this comparison to the 2.7, but my first recommendation is that you check the Maker's - best place to find killer knives at an awesome price: https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/for-sale-fixed-blades.754/

Here is a photo of the 2.7 with other knives of similar size from that review:

I'm going to be characteristically blunt here and say that my main issue with this big long post from you is that you are always seemingly handwaving away Guy and Ellie's shady and unethical business practices under the guise that golly, gee shucks, they're just some good folks who "got in over their heads". No, that's not what happened at all and I really, really wish you would stop attempting to spin this complete revision of their history. It's disingenuous, and no, your inference of "I will be accused of being a "shill" " as though that's incorrect (it isn't) and is just something people who want to argue will say, won't change that. You ARE a shill. Also, I can't help but wonder at the duplicity, or at least I didn't until I remembered that you actually make and sell a sheathe modification for S?K Knives. Oh yeah, heh, you're clearly an innocent bystander with no real stake in their success or failure, not at all.

Anyway, time to make sure the record is straight for those who may not feel like wading through the old threads outlining the duplicitous, crooked, fraudulent nature of Survive? Knives' garbage business practices.

To whomever's reading this, what chiral.grolim is NOT talking about (between all the rah-rah's for the knives) is how Guy and Ellie have no problem with frauding people. Firstly, they told people for years that they'd be getting their knives within 90 days, only to turn around and have people waiting for two years or longer (unless you were a shill who could bring them publicity, then somehow, you always got YOUR knife fast). It wasn't until huge and vocal constant outrage here on BF in their section forced their hand, that they changed it to a "You'll get it when you get it." timeframe. Also (and more importantly) they have the flat out unethical issue of selling each knife multiple times. For clarification, this means you and say, five thousand other people put in an order for the GSO Model 4.X. Great, then you're waiting for several months to a year with no real update when suddenly, GSO Model 4.X "Ugly Bettys" and "Seconds" start being offered for sale. At first, it's exciting, because hey, SURELY this means that those blanks are back at Guy's shop and that some of those knives had minor cosmetic damage, but you're glad that it logically means your knife is being worked on.

HA, NO. What it means is that they have run out of cash to buy groceries, pay their personal bills, and take vacations, so they need to drum up some new infusions of cash. So they do that by posting up some of these "seconds" for sale (all cash up front, please, thank you) with yet another lie of a delivery date. The fact is: these "seconds" are vaporware, just like the actual run of the knives. Neither exist yet. They just need more money. Simple as that. People have posted here many, many times about ordering one of these "seconds" and getting it a year or more later. What? It doesn't take a triple digit IQ to realize the suspect nature of that. A "second" or cosmetically rough product should actually be getting into your hand BEFORE the actual knives would ship out. I mean, right? That's how they would have known it was actually a blemished "second" in the first place, right? Am I talking crazy talk here or what?

Secondly, and more importantly, the fact that they keep churning out new designs when a lot of people still have not received knives from orders placed years ago. Yeeeeaaaaaarrrrrssssss AGO. That's because the money you and all those other folks paid them for those knives has long been spent (what? No, not on your knife, come on now LOL). If they don't come up with new designs for people to preorder (cash up front, please and thank you), then they would be effectively dead in the water.

Lastly, as Grolim said: "They continue to maintain their website and Instagram account and rarely but occasionally post to a private FB group. They can still be reached by phone and email." Yeah, they basically have only two social media presences, both wherein they are able to strictly control any narrative. Anyone who joins and asks where their knife is at, or any question that's not 100% a glowing obseqious, rear-end kiss is immediately banned after the comment/question is deleted. When strict censorship is on the table, that usually means there are messages you don't want your followers seeing. Simple as that.

So, at the end of the day, understand this: Guy is not a magician. S?K Knives are not lightsabers. They will not cut better than other (much more readily available) knives. Those are facts that are not logically in dispute.

Given those facts, wouldn't you rather spend your money with a more reputable maker? Buy a S?K knife on the secondary market if you must, but do so with the understanding that the "lifetime warranty" is effectively worthless. It's worthless. Just like Survive?! Knives.

Don't listen to spin-peddlers who are trying to reframe the factual narrative to protect their friends. That's BS. Period.

 

[Sid Post]

...

Thank you very much for laying things out in a way so that new members won't be deceived into thinking things are different from what they really are.

 

[chiral.grolim]

Also, I can't help but wonder at the duplicity, or at least I didn't until I remembered that you actually make and sell a sheathe modification for S?K Knives. Oh yeah, heh, you're clearly an innocent bystander with no real stake in their success or failure, not at all...

Thank you for remembering that, it is in my sig-line But the Universal Kydex Sheath Extension is hardly "for S!K knives", I actually designed it after receiving my first Busse Knives and bought sheaths from Azwelke to go with them
The UKE (now 2.0) is designed to fit pretty much ANY kydex/boltaron/plastic sheath for ANY knife model from ANY company (with a few exceptions, like the Gerber Strongarm, which I make a separate piece for).
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/universal-kydex-sheath-extender-uke-2-0.1683794/

Indeed, EVERY sheath pictured in craytab's post can accept a UKE. Most people that buy a UKE from me don't tell me what model it is for, but some have shared pictures of the Buck Selkirk, Gerber LMFII, I have photos with the SOG Pillar, the Bradford Guardian 4, and so forth and so forth. Folks with CPK models have used my UKE 2.0... i guess that means I have a stake there as well?

The idea that my UKE hobby gives me a "stake" in any company is, as you typed "BS. Period."

As to the knives themselves, here is another point I challenge:

They will not cut better than other (much more readily available) knives. Those are facts that are not logically in dispute.

Is again complete BS.
A knife that is ground to 0.020" BTE with a well finished <20-dps edge on a well finished blade of ~5-dps primary bevel? It ain't a lightsaber but it will cut WAY WAY better than a LOT of other knives. As I posted, the GSO 2.7 was not an impressive cutter due to its sturdy design, that timos- blade is far superior... but that ESEE Izula and even that Fallkniven WM1 were pathetic in comparison. Now i don't know what the edge-geometry of the CPK's are, I would hope that it is AT LEAST as good as the S!K models, I seriously doubt that the Lionsteel stuff compares favorably (prove me wrong, please), the Bradford Guardian isn't, lots of ESEE models fail, most every Busse model fails (not the Hog Muk or ScrapMax), BRKT knives are sometimes awesome cutters but sometimes have issues...
Actually, the SOG Pillar is one of the few that DOES cut as well as the S!K, so good on them But I am not sure I would be willing to bash one through steel roofing and other materials... not something I worry about with S!K knives, and their 3V models have taken almost no damage from such use, something I have only seen with INFI. Seriously, I have used these knives from various companies/makers, i have measured the geometry of the edges, I am well aware of what cuts well and what does not. i passed on the GSO 2.7 because, as I mentioned, it was too stout for how I would have used it. But a bunch of their other models have been great in my use, their handles have been among the most comfortable (though I still prefer my RMD and haven't handled any CPK's), their materials are excellent, manufacturing is excellent, sheaths are excellent (the original sheaths were made by Kiah and I actually modified mine by thinning the material around the sides, glad I am not alone on that, but the newer sheaths are different and I can post images if you like).

They makes good knives.

As to the assertions of them "frauding people", they are still, as I mentioned, making and selling and shipping knives. Have they not fulfilled all refund requests? You assert:

What it means is that they have run out of cash to buy groceries, pay their personal bills, and take vacations, so they need to drum up some new infusions of cash. So they do that by posting up some of these "seconds" for sale (all cash up front, please, thank you) with yet another lie of a delivery date. The fact is: these "seconds" are vaporware, just like the actual run of the knives. Neither exist yet. They just need more money. Simple as that.

In the GB&U thread (I just checked this, hadn't read through it previously): https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...e-hall-of-shame.1613748/page-14#post-19337205

Personally, I never dealt with Survive! until recently but was curious as to their quality. Having read all the poor reviews in regards to customer service and the several years wait I had two options, order a factory second or pay a premium in the aftermarket. I opted for a factory second. It took a little over one month and two emails but it shipped and arrived recently. I must say it is a quality blade. The jimping is strong the blade is wicked sharp . The only thing I would say the handle is a little bit too slim for my taste. I am a CPK supporter and probably won’t buy another Survive but wanted to check them out. It’s a winner but I cannot justify buying another one if they have questionable business practices and can’t fill orders. They are not Randall!

Back in 2014 I purchased knives direct from them and had them within 5 days. But other knives, and especially pre-orders, have taken FAR (years) longer. Are they back to 30 days for seconds? ... that's not "vaporware".
Did S!K offer pre-orders with an advertised lead-time that turned out to be false, then tried another one that turned out false, then tried.... Yup. And folks who wanted out asked for refunds... and got them. Some claim it took too long to get the refunds, others have asserted that they have been deliberately trying to sink S!K (for evidently personal reasons), and other folks are still waiting. Those facts are indeed all indisputable. So don't order direct from S!K until you see them shipping orders within the delivery window you expect.

That's because the money you and all those other folks paid them for those knives has long been spent. If they don't come up with new designs for people to preorder (cash up front, please and thank you), then they would be effectively dead in the water.

I don't know whether or not this was previously true... and neither do you. Asserting then is what? "Honest"? "Realistic"? Their instagram page is full of images of hundreds and hundreds of knives in various states of progress, folk elsewhere on the web have posted images of shop-visits, S!K has posted about their "Two new Haas mills" - https://www.instagram.com/p/ByDTYG9DfiK/ and a "2006 Supertec STP-2040 surface grinder and 2015 Vibrahone 10.6 cubic foot tumbler" - https://www.instagram.com/p/B3IX8QxHSy0/
I have no doubt whatsoever that S!K uses funds from pre-orders to help buy these materials and equipment to keep their operation running and get out previous orders. A user previously acknowledged that he provided them a private loan after it became clear that they had never been able to acquire any other type of loan and ran into financial difficulties pretty quick. And S!K made no ambiguity about their "starter campaign" being a call for "investment" ... And S!K is still running. Still running despite yourself defaming them as "frauds", still honoring warranties and refunds, still reachable by phone, email, site-visit... *shrug*

I am not here to condone what may be shady business practices, but I hate to see individuals condemned forever for their failures when they could have cut&run long ago. I don't actually know Guy or Ellie, have had maybe a few phone conversations and a dozen or so email exchanges with them, the majority of my interaction was here on the forums where they got flamed. But I really like some of their knives and have been able to obtain them, so I defend them. Again, if you can get Nathan or Dan Keffeler on here to condemn them, that would be a different story - they actually know them, right?

I want S!K to succeed because they make a good product. Every knife I have ordered from them has been delivered (eventually). I bought "vaporware" and it cuts like crazy

But that doesn't mean that people don't have a right to feel cheated, nor do their feelings impact the quality of the knife produced. Maybe i should compare one to my recent INFImandus...

 

[chiral.grolim]

Oh, since I am being called a "shill" anyway, I might as well also plug Victorinox Knives because, y'know, since I offer pocket-clip installation on the Alox models (any and every alox model, inexpensive or you can buy one ready from me), that gives me a "stake" in them as well

 

[Quiet]

Your entire response is again, shilling and attempting to obfuscate and protect your friends. It's the same act you used to pull back in the Survive sub days whenever anyone had any questions or any comment at all that wasn't 100% syophantic. You're a shill, period. I have stated the facts. Your claim that I am incorrect is simply, well, incorrect.

I mean, it's the very basis as to why their sub was closed down. So, in essence, by attempting to claim I'M in correct, your stance becomes "Everyone, to include Bladeforums' owner is incorrect". Good luck attempting that spin.

Your attempts to dispute the facts as I have stated them have failed. Sorry. Lastly, again, Survive knives do not cut better than all other knives. Period. I mean, are you serious?

 

[Quiet]

-snip-

I have no doubt whatsoever that S!K uses funds from pre-orders to help buy these materials and equipment to keep their operation running and get out previous orders. A user previously acknowledged that he provided them a private loan after it became clear that they had never been able to acquire any other type of loan and ran into financial difficulties pretty quick.
-snip-

"I don't know whether or not this was previously true... and neither do you. "

Just wanted to make sure I copied this down for posterity so it's searchable in the future, where you clearly and concisely admit that you have no issues with fraudulent practices.

"I don't know if it's true and neither do you, but I have no problem with it."

Got it.

Your business acumen seems to be poor (along with your baseless assertions about these knives' performance) so I'll clue you in: If I pay you for something, and you use that money to create something someone ELSE previously paid you for, that is ethically poor business practice. It means you essentially have to be paid by someone else so you can create my item. So, that means that eventually SOMEone will be left holding the bag.

The fact that you just admitted your lack of ethics and business understanding is...well, it's great. Thanks.

 

[craytab]

They makes good knives.

No they don't. They don't make a thing.

 

[craytab]

Thank you for remembering that, it is in my sig-line But the Universal Kydex Sheath Extension is hardly "for S!K knives", I actually designed it after receiving my first Busse Knives and bought sheaths from Azwelke to go with them
The UKE (now 2.0) is designed to fit pretty much ANY kydex/boltaron/plastic sheath for ANY knife model from ANY company (with a few exceptions, like the Gerber Strongarm, which I make a separate piece for).
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/universal-kydex-sheath-extender-uke-2-0.1683794/

Indeed, EVERY sheath pictured in craytab's post can accept a UKE. Most people that buy a UKE from me don't tell me what model it is for, but some have shared pictures of the Buck Selkirk, Gerber LMFII, I have photos with the SOG Pillar, the Bradford Guardian 4, and so forth and so forth. Folks with CPK models have used my UKE 2.0... i guess that means I have a stake there as well?

The idea that my UKE hobby gives me a "stake" in any company is, as you typed "BS. Period."

As to the knives themselves, here is another point I challenge:

Is again complete BS.
A knife that is ground to 0.020" BTE with a well finished <20-dps edge on a well finished blade of ~5-dps primary bevel? It ain't a lightsaber but it will cut WAY WAY better than a LOT of other knives. As I posted, the GSO 2.7 was not an impressive cutter due to its sturdy design, that timos- blade is far superior... but that ESEE Izula and even that Fallkniven WM1 were pathetic in comparison. Now i don't know what the edge-geometry of the CPK's are, I would hope that it is AT LEAST as good as the S!K models, I seriously doubt that the Lionsteel stuff compares favorably (prove me wrong, please), the Bradford Guardian isn't, lots of ESEE models fail, most every Busse model fails (not the Hog Muk or ScrapMax), BRKT knives are sometimes awesome cutters but sometimes have issues...
Actually, the SOG Pillar is one of the few that DOES cut as well as the S!K, so good on them But I am not sure I would be willing to bash one through steel roofing and other materials... not something I worry about with S!K knives, and their 3V models have taken almost no damage from such use, something I have only seen with INFI. Seriously, I have used these knives from various companies/makers, i have measured the geometry of the edges, I am well aware of what cuts well and what does not. i passed on the GSO 2.7 because, as I mentioned, it was too stout for how I would have used it. But a bunch of their other models have been great in my use, their handles have been among the most comfortable (though I still prefer my RMD and haven't handled any CPK's), their materials are excellent, manufacturing is excellent, sheaths are excellent (the original sheaths were made by Kiah and I actually modified mine by thinning the material around the sides, glad I am not alone on that, but the newer sheaths are different and I can post images if you like).

They makes good knives.

As to the assertions of them "frauding people", they are still, as I mentioned, making and selling and shipping knives. Have they not fulfilled all refund requests? You assert:

In the GB&U thread (I just checked this, hadn't read through it previously): https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...e-hall-of-shame.1613748/page-14#post-19337205

Back in 2014 I purchased knives direct from them and had them within 5 days. But other knives, and especially pre-orders, have taken FAR (years) longer. Are they back to 30 days for seconds? ... that's not "vaporware".
Did S!K offer pre-orders with an advertised lead-time that turned out to be false, then tried another one that turned out false, then tried.... Yup. And folks who wanted out asked for refunds... and got them. Some claim it took too long to get the refunds, others have asserted that they have been deliberately trying to sink S!K (for evidently personal reasons), and other folks are still waiting. Those facts are indeed all indisputable. So don't order direct from S!K until you see them shipping orders within the delivery window you expect.


I don't know whether or not this was previously true... and neither do you. Asserting then is what? "Honest"? "Realistic"? Their instagram page is full of images of hundreds and hundreds of knives in various states of progress, folk elsewhere on the web have posted images of shop-visits, S!K has posted about their "Two new Haas mills" - https://www.instagram.com/p/ByDTYG9DfiK/ and a "2006 Supertec STP-2040 surface grinder and 2015 Vibrahone 10.6 cubic foot tumbler" - https://www.instagram.com/p/B3IX8QxHSy0/
I have no doubt whatsoever that S!K uses funds from pre-orders to help buy these materials and equipment to keep their operation running and get out previous orders. A user previously acknowledged that he provided them a private loan after it became clear that they had never been able to acquire any other type of loan and ran into financial difficulties pretty quick. And S!K made no ambiguity about their "starter campaign" being a call for "investment" ... And S!K is still running. Still running despite yourself defaming them as "frauds", still honoring warranties and refunds, still reachable by phone, email, site-visit... *shrug*

I am not here to condone what may be shady business practices, but I hate to see individuals condemned forever for their failures when they could have cut&run long ago. I don't actually know Guy or Ellie, have had maybe a few phone conversations and a dozen or so email exchanges with them, the majority of my interaction was here on the forums where they got flamed. But I really like some of their knives and have been able to obtain them, so I defend them. Again, if you can get Nathan or Dan Keffeler on here to condemn them, that would be a different story - they actually know them, right?

I want S!K to succeed because they make a good product. Every knife I have ordered from them has been delivered (eventually). I bought "vaporware" and it cuts like crazy

But that doesn't mean that people don't have a right to feel cheated, nor do their feelings impact the quality of the knife produced. Maybe i should compare one to my recent INFImandus...

You can blither on and on all you want about your beloved survive but reasonable people understand the facts of this horrible, horrible company.

Frank put it quite succinctly:

I'm going to save a lot of posts by posting a link
Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

I've heard that the knives themselves are OK. The company that "manufactures" them is junk and most knife enthusiasts would not take one of their knives if you gave it to them for fear of supporting them in any way.

Now. That being said, ask your question.

 

[Twindog]

Your entire response is again, shilling and attempting to obfuscate and protect your friends. It's the same act you used to pull back in the Survive sub days whenever anyone had any questions or any comment at all that wasn't 100% syophantic. You're a shill, period. I have stated the facts. Your claim that I am incorrect is simply, well, incorrect.

I mean, it's the very basis as to why their sub was closed down. So, in essence, by attempting to claim I'M in correct, your stance becomes "Everyone, to include Bladeforums' owner is incorrect". Good luck attempting that spin.

Your attempts to dispute the facts as I have stated them have failed. Sorry. Lastly, again, Survive knives do not cut better than all other knives. Period. I mean, are you serious?

SK's untimely delivery problems are a serious issue. I had to ask for a refund quite a while ago after it was obvious my knife was not likely to arrive in anytime in the next few years. The refund took a month to get, iirc, but it came and the owners were polite and helpful.

Do you know of anyone who has not received their knife or, if requested, a refund?

On the plus side, the 5.1 GSO that I bought on the secondary market here is an excellent knife, with a steel, heat treat and geometry that will indeed outcut most production knives.

 

[craytab]

Oh, since I am being called a "shill" anyway, I might as well also plug Victorinox Knives because, y'know, since I offer pocket-clip installation on the Alox models (any and every alox model, inexpensive or you can buy one ready from me), that gives me a "stake" in them as well

Not very becoming of a service provider to pimp their wares completely off topic.

 

[Quiet]

Oh, chiral.grolim Also, so we can finish putting the nails in your coffin built of poor logic, please show us some pics where you cut something with one of your S?K knives that somehow, one of your other knives were not able to also cut. You've made the assertion that they're better, but the fact is, they aren't.

You are probably sweating a bit now, so I'll go ahead and make the offer. I have a S?K 4.7 that I got back before I realized what a terrible fraud and a sham of a company they are. How about I compare that to a Ratmandu, and a CPK FK2, a TOPS BOB knife, and a couple others. Should be a simple test. I cut some media with the 4.7, it should be my expectation (given your assertion) that none of those other knives will be able to cut it.

Correct?

Let me know, I'll set it up this weekend. And once I've destroyed your assertion, you'll agree never to be a shill for these scumbags and their mediocre product made of parts that other people produce ever again.

Deal?

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I love when the Survive fangirls come out and play

 

[Quiet]

SK's untimely delivery problems are a serious issue. I had to ask for a refund quite a while ago after it was obvious my knife was not likely to arrive in anytime in the next few years. The refund took a month to get, iirc, but it came and the owners were polite and helpful.

Do you know of anyone who has not received their knife or, if requested, a refund?

On the plus side, the 5.1 GSO that I bought on the secondary market here is an excellent knife, with a steel, heat treat and geometry that will indeed outcut most production knives.

Please qualify the term "outcut". In what way will it say, cut an apple in half, that makes it superior to the ability of cutting an apple in half that "most production knives" have?

Also, does them scrambling to issue refunds simply outweigh their fraudulent practices?

 

[Twindog]

Please qualify the term "outcut". In what way will it say, cut an apple in half, that makes it superior to the ability of cutting an apple in half that "most production knives" have?

Also, does them scrambling to issue refunds simply outweigh their fraudulent practices?

The steel and the heat treat are the same as used by CPK, which we all agree makes an excellent knife.

The geometry speaks for itself. Geometry cuts. It's more aggressive than most of my production knives.

To my thinking, they have been proven to run their business poorly. I haven't seen any evidence of fraud.

 

[Quiet]

The steel and the heat treat are the same as used by CPK, which we all agree makes an excellent knife.

The geometry speaks for itself. Geometry cuts. It's more aggressive than most of my production knives.

To my thinking, they have been proven to run their business poorly. I haven't seen any evidence of fraud.

So, what you're saying is that if geometry is the most important thing, then you should probably leave the S?K at home and bring a Mora Classic #1, then? Alright.

Actually, their actions ARE fraudulent. They broke multiple laws when keeping peoples' money far past their promised delivery dates (as was discussed in the huge thread in Feedback). So, the fact that S?K has committed fraud is not in dispute. Also, again, the actions I spoke of in my initial post tell the tale. If a run of knives is not back yet in Guy's hands at Milli...sorry, "his" shop, how could there even be "Seconds" to be sold? How would he even know?

S?K deserves every bit of negative press and condemnation they get here. They don't deserve any business from Bladeforums' members or anyone else. There are a ton of people right here in the Maker's section who would be glad to make you a great knife in the steel of your choice*, and they'll be forthcoming, honest, and communicative.

All of those are more than anyone can say for Survive.



* Delta 3v notwithstanding. CPK will definitely take care of you if you need it

 

[chiral.grolim]

Your entire response is again, shilling and attempting to obfuscate and protect your friends. It's the same act you used to pull back in the Survive sub days whenever anyone had any questions or any comment at all that wasn't 100% syophantic. You're a shill, period. I have stated the facts. Your claim that I am incorrect is simply, well, incorrect.

I mean, it's the very basis as to why their sub was closed down. So, in essence, by attempting to claim I'M in correct, your stance becomes "Everyone, to include Bladeforums' owner is incorrect". Good luck attempting that spin.

Your attempts to dispute the facts as I have stated them have failed. Sorry. Lastly, again, Survive knives do not cut better than all other knives. Period. I mean, are you serious?

You can pull out links to all those "acts" I used to pull, I am sure. The "facts" I have disputed are as follows:
1) S!K knives don't cut better better than other knives (never did I say "all" but you are welcome to check or just apologize now for lying) - they DO cut better than the knives I indicated and many more besides. Cutting is based on edge-geometry. Do you want me to post diagram comparing the geometry of various knives?

2) My UKE somehow makes me biased in favor of the company - that is just... are YOU serious?

3) That they don't sell knives, only "vaporware". They sell both, and the knives get delivered (eventually). They never stopped making knives nor did they stop honoring warranty requests (or refunds, although those got delayed once upon a time).

I have no argument with their sub getting shut-down, the place became a flame-arena and S!K staff stopped bothering to maintain it, so, yeah. They told folks "90 days" and failed, kept backing up deadlines, didn't have suitable answers (other than "we're sorry, we're working on it"). Refunds got delayed, which they blamed on Paypal freezing their account due to claims of fraud (it was later released and is still in operation, if that is evidence of anything).
Again, no argument with them getting shut down.

Just wanted to make sure I copied this down for posterity so it's searchable in the future, where you clearly and concisely admit that you have no issues with fraudulent practices.

"I don't know if it's true and neither do you, but I have no problem with it."

Got it.

Your business acumen seems to be poor (along with your baseless assertions about these knives' performance) so I'll clue you in: If I pay you for something, and you use that money to create something someone ELSE previously paid you for, that is ethically poor business practice. It means you essentially have to be paid by someone else so you can create my item. So, that means that eventually SOMEone will be left holding the bag.

The fact that you just admitted your lack of ethics and business understanding is...well, it's great. Thanks.

To make a product you need investment. If you can't get a loan, you basically ask your customers for a loan - S!K even called their starter campaign an "investment". It was understood that my money would be used to buy equipment/materials to produce other people's knives as well as my own. THAT IS HOW BUSINESSES OPERATE. They use the money from customers and investors to generate product and grow their business - otherwise, they truly are "dead in the water". THAT is what I have no problem with. Clear?
BUT if you failed to ask your customers for a big enough loan (for whatever reason) you... what? That was poor planning, you should declare bankruptcy and cut&run and leave your 'investors' "holding the bag", and that is exactly what happened, right? No. They never stopped making and delivering knives. That impresses me. The guy who gave them a private loan said he understood that it might largely be used for refunds since S!K had most of the rest of the funds tied up in equipment/materials already paid for (non-liquid assets). *shrug* That was his choice and ALSO impresses me. What people have a problem with is that it seems like S!K also abused their customers by selling perfectly good knives to NEW customers which had been made with the previous customer "loans" in order to generate sufficient profit from the new sales in order to repay the previous loans and weren't clear about it, (i.e. they really were "dead in the water" but were trying not to sink). What neither you nor I know is the extent to which that the last part is true. But so far, in 7 years of existence and thousands (many thousands?) of knives produced, no one has been left "holding the bag". Is that a fact beyond dispute?