Survive in the woods?
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Mr. Linton you do happen to be right and wrong at the same time.
Right in that you could be wrong about me, and wrong for your insinuation of who you think I might be.
And I say that with as much tact and reserve as possible. It would be similar if I inferred you were overly judgemental of others, based on a single post, and that would be wrong of me.
Back on topic, I do believe you missed my point or , perhaps, I did not explain myself clearly enough. My apologies if it was the latter.
It was not to insult football, football players, Bear Bryant, sports in general or the work ethic that goes along with being a great athlete.
I played Football, Wrestled and played Baseball. I coached select baseball for 8 years.
Let me try this again, Survival is not a sport.
Many people who have survived situations have had no physical endurance training, nor sports experience. People are not precluded from being survivors based on physicality or any pechant for sports or that type of work ethic.
Might it help someone push themselves farther had they played organized sports at a higher level? Gone through Basic Training? Of course, that is too obvious.
But, I also know many football players and baseball players, let's just use the term athletes , who can't even change the oil in their own car, can't hammer a nail into a peice of wood, and simply don't have the survival skills and/or knowledge necessary to cope well, if at all, in a survival situation.
In those cases the physicality, work ethic, drive to win, endure, may harm more than help.
Many an able bodied & strong willed man has tried to cross frozen wilderness or an arid zone, and perished trying, simply because they didn't have the practical knowledge to survive. They had guts, oh yes, they had drive, but they didn't understand hypothermia nor first aid.
Again, not characterizing football players, or athletes, as a group, or as unable to cope in that type of situation, but, like any other group, there will be some who can and some who can't , regardless of their will to win, will to endure, will to keep going "all the way".
What is the difference between someone going 5 miles and stopping to rest because they are too tired, or someone else pushing all they've got , going 20 or 30 miles and dropping dead from exhaustion?
The difference is survival. That was my point.
It can also work the other way around, the person who stops due to fatigue can die of exposure, while the one with the endurance makes it to safety.
But it's a crap shoot, the one with the practical skills and knowledge is the best prepared.
Right in that you could be wrong about me, and wrong for your insinuation of who you think I might be.
And I say that with as much tact and reserve as possible. It would be similar if I inferred you were overly judgemental of others, based on a single post, and that would be wrong of me.
Back on topic, I do believe you missed my point or , perhaps, I did not explain myself clearly enough. My apologies if it was the latter.
It was not to insult football, football players, Bear Bryant, sports in general or the work ethic that goes along with being a great athlete.
I played Football, Wrestled and played Baseball. I coached select baseball for 8 years.
Let me try this again, Survival is not a sport.
Many people who have survived situations have had no physical endurance training, nor sports experience. People are not precluded from being survivors based on physicality or any pechant for sports or that type of work ethic.
Might it help someone push themselves farther had they played organized sports at a higher level? Gone through Basic Training? Of course, that is too obvious.
But, I also know many football players and baseball players, let's just use the term athletes , who can't even change the oil in their own car, can't hammer a nail into a peice of wood, and simply don't have the survival skills and/or knowledge necessary to cope well, if at all, in a survival situation.
In those cases the physicality, work ethic, drive to win, endure, may harm more than help.
Many an able bodied & strong willed man has tried to cross frozen wilderness or an arid zone, and perished trying, simply because they didn't have the practical knowledge to survive. They had guts, oh yes, they had drive, but they didn't understand hypothermia nor first aid.
Again, not characterizing football players, or athletes, as a group, or as unable to cope in that type of situation, but, like any other group, there will be some who can and some who can't , regardless of their will to win, will to endure, will to keep going "all the way".
What is the difference between someone going 5 miles and stopping to rest because they are too tired, or someone else pushing all they've got , going 20 or 30 miles and dropping dead from exhaustion?
The difference is survival. That was my point.
It can also work the other way around, the person who stops due to fatigue can die of exposure, while the one with the endurance makes it to safety.
But it's a crap shoot, the one with the practical skills and knowledge is the best prepared.
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More good points. So it's not baseball or wrestling either? 
On the other paw, there is a view that all of life is a game. You just need to know the rules and the skills to "win." (Remember the futility of asking a pitcher if he needed to come out? Ego often makes them forget how the team "wins.") And, as your experience doubtless indicates, different coaches define "winning" and "winning attitude" differently.
But if you don't like sports analogies, . . . . . . :thumbup:
On the other paw, there is a view that all of life is a game. You just need to know the rules and the skills to "win." (Remember the futility of asking a pitcher if he needed to come out? Ego often makes them forget how the team "wins.") And, as your experience doubtless indicates, different coaches define "winning" and "winning attitude" differently.
But if you don't like sports analogies, . . . . . . :thumbup:
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Just to kinda back up skunkWerx, not that he needs it but I believe the Outward bound schools, which you may have heard of, were started during WWll. The story I heard was that the merchant marines were losing alot of ship and men, with many men being adrift at sea with little food and water plus the exposure. Seems the odd thing was that many of the young healthy guys were dying and the older less fit guys were SURVIVING. What they finally figured out was that the older guys had gone through hard times in the past. Many had gone through the depression and in general had lived a hard life and were better prpared mentally to survive. The young guys on the other hand tended to just give up and die.
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That's unfair, Fonly. Arnold has a broken leg.
But you make a good point. If I was to be stranded in boreal forest, Mors would be my pick, although he's probably in pretty good shape himself.Doc
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Sorry, I missed this explanation previously. It seems that I already carry a BOB when I go deep into the bush out here. This link may be helpful to round out a pack.
http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_article.php?id_article=205
I think of a BOB as something you grab out of your car or house to help you get by for a day or three. As I have stated before I am not a huge fan of the BOB concept, but that is another story. It seems to me that if you are in the deep woods with a BOB then you drove there for some reason and got stranded. OK maybe your small plane crashed. For me if I were in the deep woods I would have my camping gear with me. At the very least I would have my VSK which carries much more than a BOB.
I would do OK with fire and water and shelter but food could be a problem once my stock ran out. Thank God for Power Bars and SOS New Millenium Bars! I have hunted and fished all my life but there has to be game present to take one. Around here there is very little, except along the ocean, to find to eat with the exception of acorns. I don't mean there aren't plants to eat just that that is all you could do during the day. Look for food, no work. Squirells are hard to trap on a regular basis, rabbits ...
Dang, gotta go. I'll finish later and clean this up.
I would do OK with fire and water and shelter but food could be a problem once my stock ran out. Thank God for Power Bars and SOS New Millenium Bars! I have hunted and fished all my life but there has to be game present to take one. Around here there is very little, except along the ocean, to find to eat with the exception of acorns. I don't mean there aren't plants to eat just that that is all you could do during the day. Look for food, no work. Squirells are hard to trap on a regular basis, rabbits ...
Dang, gotta go. I'll finish later and clean this up.
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If I am by myself, I think I could survive just fine, my BOB is certainly well stocked, and I give myself credit for being able to find some sustinance. I know the basics. I think I could make it for as long as it took.
If I am with my family (wife and daughters)... 72 hours.
If I am with my family (wife and daughters)... 72 hours.
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Yes, giving up would be bad, but I think Skunk's point was that good judgment and knowledge can be more important than "never say die."
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I see survival mentioned in this thread over and over in reference to long term. There is a point (potentially a few days) where your man-made supplies (as mentioned) run out and your mindset (has to) change to primitive living. Primitive living can be a VERY TOUGH proposition and there are very few that come from a 'civilized' society that can make it full time. While I can make fire by friction (including the occasional hand drill), know most of the woody species in my area (big deal), can make stone tools, cordage, trap, etc., in most northern latitudes I could not make a full transition from 'survival' to primitive living. Its a calorie game I would eventually lose without support from society. If you think you could go longterm without man-made support and haven't practiced (mastered) primitive skills you are foolish.
Here is a link about someone going primitive that has some good reality checks...
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/wildup.html
Here is another article that may give you a different perspective...
http://www.primitive.org/metaphor.htm
Sorry for the soapbox, I am especially passionate about the subject.
Here is a link about someone going primitive that has some good reality checks...
http://www.eco-action.org/dt/wildup.html
Here is another article that may give you a different perspective...
http://www.primitive.org/metaphor.htm
Sorry for the soapbox, I am especially passionate about the subject.
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Good point Bear, also remember that with primitive people it was a group effort and to be thrown out of the tribe was a death sentence in a lot of cases.
Something I have not studied but mean to is the Japanese soldiers on some of the islands that did not give up for years, how did they survive?
Something I have not studied but mean to is the Japanese soldiers on some of the islands that did not give up for years, how did they survive?
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Good points. Regarding the Japanese, I believe they were at lower latitudes where you don't need as many calories or fat to survive, at least physiologically. They probably did so like the Polynesians... fish, veggies, coconuts. How they survived psychologically is amazing.
That article about the japanese soldiers is here for anyone who wants it.
http://www.primitiveways.com/jungle_30_years.html
http://www.primitiveways.com/jungle_30_years.html
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All true, bear. And sometimes substantial numbers of the tribe died of hunger or deficiency diseases despite group effort and a high level of pratical expertise in hunting/gathering in their area.
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What "presumption" would that be? The author seems to have set off an interesting discusion without any presumption I can see that keeping 98.6 is secondary to food.
I am sorry, I didn't mean my post to be taken as a criticism of the question raised, so I deleted it. And I agree, it is an interesting discussion.
I only meant to say that survival for weeks is only in selected cases limited by food supply. I see living in the wild as a completely different topic though and since the initial post mentions the BOB, I would have thought that we are still talking about a survival scenario.
I only meant to say that survival for weeks is only in selected cases limited by food supply. I see living in the wild as a completely different topic though and since the initial post mentions the BOB, I would have thought that we are still talking about a survival scenario.
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No reason to delete a post. Wisdom comes from the interplay of experience and thought - and disagreement is part and parcel of that process.
Look at Quiet Bear's posts. There is a point at which "survival" crosses over into "primitive living" (or pick any labels you like - or none).
This thread has not limited itself to the time a person can live without food. It has developed otherwise, whatever the author intended.
Your answer to the author's question may fall within the "survival" range or go far beyond it, with all the problems Quiet Bear mentions. In any event, some of the contents of a BOB, such as a good knife, a fire steel, and metal wire, will serve well beyond the "golden seventy-two hours."
Look at Quiet Bear's posts. There is a point at which "survival" crosses over into "primitive living" (or pick any labels you like - or none).
This thread has not limited itself to the time a person can live without food. It has developed otherwise, whatever the author intended.
Your answer to the author's question may fall within the "survival" range or go far beyond it, with all the problems Quiet Bear mentions. In any event, some of the contents of a BOB, such as a good knife, a fire steel, and metal wire, will serve well beyond the "golden seventy-two hours."