Survive in the woods?

I was just expanding on the "Only 500 people" stat, because I always wondered how they came up with it. Then after quzzing the ScoutMaster, I was thinking, geeez, maybe it's less than 500??

The Tracker school claims to have had about 20,000 students come through in the last two decades. All of them are TAUGHT the bow drill. If you tested them and even 50% could get the bow drill to make fire, that would be 10,000 people. If only a quarter of them could, that would be 5000.

Plus there are dozens of survival schools across the U.S. and most of them teach the bow drill.

So I'm thinkin' it's time to adjust the estimate upward... :D

Clint Hollingworth
The Wandering Ones webcomic
http://www.wanderingones.com
 
How many can consistently get a fire with the bow drill? That includes harvesting the right species and making a good tinder bundle (which is usually overlooked as most focus on ingnition and the tinder bundle is 2/3 of the equation). Whatever that number is dwindles substantially.

Within primitive circles, I have heard estimates of 500 to 1,000 people in North America that can consistently get fire with the hand drill. The hand drill is considerably more difficult than the bow drill.
 
Got an energy conservation question here. You are in a survival situation, you need a fire, you have no food. How much energy will the process of bow/drill fire making take away from a person already in a bit of a stressful situation, and with no steady food supply available? Is this a reliable method of fire making that becomes easier with pratice, therefore reducing energy output ? Is there an easier way to make fire by friction that uses less energy and would be a better use of practice time? My efforts at bow drill have left me worn out. Guess this goes back to physical fitness, etc.

John Rykken
 
Got an energy conservation question here. You are in a survival situation, you need a fire, you have no food. How much energy will the process of bow/drill fire making take away from a person already in a bit of a stressful situation, and with no steady food supply available?

Once practiced and learned, the act of procuring materials and assembling the set is no more energy consumptive than acquiring water, and far less so than shelter building and food gathering. Plus there is the added benifit of the positive attitude that comes from being creative and proactive. Net gain in my opinion.

Is this a reliable method of fire making that becomes easier with practice, therefore reducing energy output ?

Again, once learned, it is a very effective means. Sometimes the only means available in the situation. And yes, when really learned, it is quite easy.

Is there an easier way to make fire by friction that uses less energy and would be a better use of practice time? My efforts at bow drill have left me worn out. Guess this goes back to physical fitness, etc.

John Rykken

Learning anything worthwhile takes effort. Fatigue from the effort is compounded by the frustration of lack of success early on. Some people try it once, give it up as an impossible task, and never try again, rejecting it from their skill set. Yes, with practice and knowledge gained, it takes little effort to build the set, use it, and have a cozy fire in minutes, not hours or days. Keep the "I can do this" attitude, and you can.

Codger:thumbup:
 
To illustrate my earlier points, I just made a trip to find the components to not one, but two fire bow sets. I was gone for about 45 minutes. The walk was about 1 1/2 miles through the gate, down the hill to the creek, across my double log bridge, through the lower pasture to the cedar stand in the upper pasture. OK, I cheated because I was already familiar with my environment and knew where to find the river cane along the creek, and where both dead standing and downed cedars were. I also shortcut climbing into the creek bed to find just the right stone to use for a socket, and instead picked up a footbone from one of my cows that died a few years back. I could have made the socket from hickory as well, but again, I am getting lazy in my old age. This year's deer bonepile still had too much flesh on the vertabrae to use them, but I could have used one if I had not taken the easier to get footbone.

The live cane for a fire bow was easily cut with one effortless pass of my knife. The dead cane for the spindle and fireboard was harder to find in good, dry condition, but I did also find it. One set down, one to go.

Along the way I kept my eyes open for catkins and fluffy grassy plants to use for tender. I also found some relatively dry hollow stalks from last year's Poke plants that would do for hand drill spindles once dried a bit more. Our cedar bark is shaggy and stringy, and so dries pretty quickly in the sun and wind we are having today. I've recorded a bit over six inches of rain here since the holiday season approached, so it was a tad more difficult to find dries components and tender than is normally the case.

Reaching the cedar stand, I poked around a root ball looking for some fatwood, but no joy there. Trying to conserve time and energy, I didn't waste time traveling another 1/4 mile uphill thru the hickories to the old stumps for fatwood. It isn't a prerequesite for fire making, just a handy accelerant. The best firebow prospects in the downed cedars were along the bottoms of the trees where the small limbs were bowed between the tree and the ground when still green and cured that way. If there had been no downed trees, I would have trimmed a green branch with a bow from the lower part of a younger tree. Spindle materials were everywhere, so like the cedar firebow, getting one was just a matter of selecting the right shape and sixe, and giving it a few whacks with my knife. The cedar fireboard I took from a trunk where it had been broken and laid over in a windstorm, twisting as it fell. It was already relatively flat on one side, so it will only require flattening on the rounded opposite side to make it the right shape and thickness. The trimmings will give me shavings for tender and splints for small kindling. Most of the bark on the upper side of the downed trees was gone, but sufficient bark was left on the sides, drier than that on the bottoms. I gathered a nice coat pocketfull as I poked around for the components, so I wasted very little effort searching for it. On the way back, more was taken from standing live trees where it hung shaggy and dry. With a bit of working between the hands, it will become a fiberous nest ready for cedar shavings, grass fluff, and to receive the coal for my fire.

So there is how easy material gathering can be if you know what to look for and where to find it.

Codger
 
Quote-Codger: "It was already relatively flat on one side, so it will only require flattening on the rounded opposite side to make it the right shape and thickness."

While I'm sure most of you know this, I'm adding it for those that don't. If you have one flat side, it can be used on the bottom. The depression and notch can be made on the rounded side, in fact, if you're in an area where there's no flat land, the rounded side affords versatility in making the depression and notch so it will be uppermost. Hope that's clear.

Doc
 
I might also add that the fireboad length is of no great consequence, other than short enough to be portable, and long enough to let you anchor it in place and also make several holes for your spindle if it is going to be used more than once or twice. A length as long as my foot works for me.

Thanks Doc.

Codger
 
I think everyone should learn how to make fire with a bow drill, but go out with all the back-ups they can. It is fun and a huge confidence builder. Even a firesteel takes two hands and you may not have two *working* hands. I might be able to improvise holding it down with my foot.

My point is that if you are in a survival situation, it is likely that you are in that fix because of an injury. Redundancy rules :)
 
Well alright then,

Thanks the the experienced answer. I can see this as a useful tool in the toolkit.

John :thumbup:
 
Even a firesteel takes two hands and you may not have two *working* hands. I might be able to improvise holding it down with my foot.

Dale, I agree with your sentiment but wanted to point out that you can use a firesteel with one hand. Gene Ward demonstrated how in his video, "Survival: Beyond the 10 Essentials". What he does is to use the saw on his multitool of SAK to cut a slot in a piece of wood about half the depth of the striker. Place the striker in the slot, then drag your magnesium bar, fatwood, or whatever tinder you are going to use against the striker (in one direction!) to acculmulate a pile of tinder. Sweep the tinder pile next to the striker. Next, drag the firesteel against the striker, sending the sparks onto the tinder. Gene states (and it looks like) that this is actually easier than the two-handed method.

-- FLIX
 
Used to spend my Xmas vacation running a trapline/ hunting in northern Indiana when I was in H.S. Stayed out for about 10 days, built my own mini-log cabin/ debri hut. Was alot of fun and got me out of doing family vacations:)

Bob Mills
 
All true, bear. And sometimes substantial numbers of the tribe died of hunger or deficiency diseases despite group effort and a high level of pratical expertise in hunting/gathering in their area.

You would be hard pressed to find an Indian around here that bothers to food fish with a fishing rod, they toss a net in. They also do not bother much with the wild game birds or rabbits here, they knock down 2-3 Caribou with a rifle, usually a .22 Magnum and freeze them. The reason is energy expenditure to food gain. I met an Indian that told me that his grandfather would dig out bear dens in the winter and kill,eat the bears if there was a meat shortage. These Indians would also laugh their asses off if we tried to start a fire without a lighter. Lighters are small, cheap, readily available and extremely reliable. In 1907 the Indians here would use a dog sled and hand axe, in 2007 it is the snowmobile and chain saw. If a technology is extremely reliable I will use it , not worry about it, and keep it simple.
 
I see what ya mean north. I know with me though, I like working the "old ways" its great fun and a chalange. But we made advances in technology to make things eaiser, And ya, if its there I'm gonna use it :D
 
"Most of the men knew what they wanted, rattling quickly through the list of such items as cartridges, powder, tobacco, tea, flour, molasas, and other essentials."

The Last Gentleman Adventurer, Coming of Age in the Arctic, Edward Maurice, 2006 (An account of several years [1930-1939] as a resident agent of the Hudson's Bay Company in the Arctic
 
I see what ya mean north. I know with me though, I like working the "old ways" its great fun and a chalange. But we made advances in technology to make things eaiser, And ya, if its there I'm gonna use it :D

Hey Fonly,

A quote for you: "It has only been in the last few hundred years that we humans have become disconnected with our life force. And as a consequence, our perception of our place in nature has deteriorated to the point that we are systematically destroying our environment and ourselves. Yet, ironically, by taking a step back in time, it is possible to take an immense step forward in understanding. While we do not believe it is possible to return completely to the old ways, we do believe that once a person experiences the excitement of creating fire by ancient methods, molds a piece of the earth into a functional vessel of beauty, builds shelter using what nature provides, or experiences first-hand any of the life skills of our ancient ancestors, he or she will understand the vital alliance we all have with our past and our environment." from Woodsmoke by Linda and Richard Jamison.

Doc
 
If i have my bob and my pants, I can make it a long time, I say pants as they 99% of the time contain at least one good knife, one good lighter and on my keys is another fire stick, and last on my belt is a 1911 .45. Sure I can still make a fire bow and get a fire, but if i got the tools, i am not going to spend the effort. If its cold, and I have lived in the cold with not a lot for a few winters past, one shot one deer, and food for at least three weeks, probably more. With the BOB, I would have an ax and a folding saw. a small tent and in the fall till spring, the BOB will have a zero degree down bag. That will get me to at least day 3 or 4, with enough time there for to make a much more servicable lean too or at least a shelter hut. In a week, i can have a liveable hut roughed in. and yes i have done it.

I have gone winter camping living out of a back pack for 3 weeks in northern Minnesota in January. at least -5 everynight, somenights as low as minus 30. yeah its cold but in a few days your body adjusts and you keep going IF you have adequate shelter and calories. Shelter can mean many things, we used tents combined with snow shelters for the first few days, then improvised huts after that. A debris hut, covered with a tarp, covered by 2 feet of snow will stay about 30 degrees inside or a bit warmer with just a couple of people sleeping in it. add a couple of candles or a coleman lantern and it gets toasty in there, maybe 50 degrees? warm enough that changing and dressing is pretty ok, not a mad rush to get covered up again.

If you ever get a chance take a look at the books about dick proenneke. He also made a self documentary about his time he spent in the woods of alaska. He made a right fine cabin using nothing but hand tools and skill.
He lived 30 years more or less alone and without tremendous aid in some of the more difficult terrain and weather on earth.
 
Dick Proenneke is amazing, his cabin is still standing as a heritage site.
His door hinges made from logs were quite remarkable.

dick.jpg
 
Dick brought a movie camera along with his axe when he went into the bush. PBS runs "Alone in the Wilderness" from time to time and sells the DVD as a fundraiser. I was amazed at the level of craftsmanship Dick put into that cabin. Those hinges were over the top!
The book is a good read as well.

--FLIX
 
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