Survive! Knives Forum Closed - What Changed?

[knarfeng]

Remember that rule where we discuss the topic and not each other? Heed the rule..

Cut the shit and knock it off. Stick to the topic and not each other..party favors to follow to those that don't heed the rule.

@ndmiller
Make your points without the name calling.

 

[Chariotz4]

Thanks for sharing Capitan Obvious. Guess I hit a nerve on Survive not listening to "experts" comment, that IS the reason you are so angry here about Survive. You had the solution for them and they continue to ignore it to this day, got it thanks.

Actually, I don't think anyone here currently has a solution for Survive, mainly because to myself at least, that would imply that they've acknowledged their serious problem(s) and are seeking out ways to rectify them. By most peoples' varying standards, that certainly doesn't seem to be the case in the slightest and you seem to have alluded to that in your post as well.

 

[stonesell]

Actually, I don't think anyone here currently has a solution for Survive, mainly because to myself at least, that would imply that they've acknowledged their serious problem(s) and are seeking out ways to rectify them. By most peoples' varying standards, that certainly doesn't seem to be the case in the slightest and you seem to have alluded to that in your post as well.

Fixing the company would require honesty, integrity, and total transparency. They are obviously not going in that direction.
If they are putting some profits in Seiferd Holdings, which bought the hotel, and then using other people’s money to operate on a bare bones production schedule, giving them the excuse to avoid making knives for the original starter contributors, they may be in some violation.
A court order could easily open Seiferd Holdings, go over all of their accounting, and perhaps force any restitution that is required.
If businesses try to maintain secrecy through various smoke and mirrors “management techniques”, they may be attracting much unwanted attention on themselves; and where there’s smoke, there is fire.
Whatever happened to the old fashioned way of just having a banking business account, and working with a loan officer, accountant, and perhaps a business advisor? It still works well for a lot of people.

 

[shinyedges]

I'm curious to know what these die hard fans of survive think about survive! Insuring a customer's package for HALF THE VALUE. Read post #127 and #131.

A guy has 1000$ in knives, and never gets them after waiting for YEARS. Survive! refunds him HALF the money because that's what they insured it for. Unbelievable and unacceptable.

What's the excuse for this one?

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/7-7.1495617/page-7

It's not really your place to tell me where I can look or not, don't you think? Also, why do you have to use slurs? Please be polite.

You didn't answer a thing I said. Did you ask for a refund and not get it?

Word! After having been around another maker's business who is light years more competent, knowledgeable plus much much better equipped and connected to the industry, I have learned that there is no friggin way for a very small manufactruing ought to take on such lofty production goals; much less for a very small outfit which at times branded itself as a "boutique' type of manufacturing op. I didn't know any of this detailed stuff about 2 1/2 years ago!

Thanks for sharing Capitan Obvious. Guess I hit a nerve on Survive not listening to "experts" comment, that IS the reason you are so angry here about Survive. You had the solution for them and they continue to ignore it to this day, got it thanks.



Reread my post and what I actually typed, that's where I was going, not what you thought I typed. No where did I absolve Survive of anything. I said and still believe people have to take some responsibility with their money when giving it out for a product not delivered. At this point anyone waiting for a Survive knife is crazy at this point. No-one to blame now but yourselves (waiters), especially if the backlog is another year (millet quote) or twice that (my estimate). Obviously they either want the knife or a few hundred dollar loan for the next year or two isn't a big deal to them.

On the other hand waiting too long for a $200-300 knife isn't exactly my definition of suffering, that's a bit dramatic.

 

[mlmcasual]

Lets not forget some other elephants in the room. SK knives are no longer a "value knife".

Per SK!'s about us, and what (was) previously their market position claim was to be a very reasonable priced high end production knife.
" Not only are you getting an exceptional tool, you're receiving an incredible value "
Well, that market claim is no longer true. Both Time and Risk have real-world intrinsic and monetary values associated. That is a fact. If you look at the time (now >3+ years) for outstanding prepaid knives, AND the credible risk associated with loosing your money from a bankruptcy, the "Value" claim of SK! is no longer true. Especially when you compare SK! against other manufacture's knives. You can see this fact born out on the secondary market (like ebay) where the 7/7 is now trying to sell at $500. That extra $200 premium is the seller trying to cash out on the time and risk premium, not just a rarity premium. Arguably, a $500 market value production knife is hardly a "value", deal.

But it gets worse.. another elephant in the room we need to remember, a big part of the marketing and "value" of the GSO! knives was it's "lifetime warranty". But as the company's credible risk of bankruptcy/failure increases, the "lifetime warranty" becomes of less and less value. And if SK! does fail, my lifetime warranty becomes worthless. In that respect, my personal owned GSO knives are already depreciating in value.

 

[Casinostocks]

Shinyedges, I will comment for myself:

Why do you keep peddling and propagating the false narrative that I’m a “die hard” fan of S! Knives when I have already stated on many occasions that I had moved from my previous position of being a fan of their knives well over 2 years ago and even when I was involved in many heated exchanges in that infamous MLM thread, “when is it legal...” I was always consistent in stating that the day Survive! stopped issuing refunds (their refund turn around was very quick back then IIRC) I’d change my position. I have made plenty of posts criticizing their putrid practices since.

As for their knives, I don’t currently own any but owned like 8-9 in total, half of which I bought as 2nds directly which were delivered within 30-60 days (I was lucky to not get mired in their later mess) and the other ones from private parties here on the Exchage. When I bought my first knife and then the second one from another D3V maker on here (S! wasn’t up to speed on their Deltas then) I made a decision that this other business deserved my money and business loyalties over S! I liked his knives much better in addition to his sale method which at that time certainly was not for everyone not quick to draw, but suited me just fine.

The point which you still refuse to accept is the fact that some people still happen to like GSOs for their own reasons without being a fan of Survive! Knives as a business entity. IMHO, here’s the problem with you:

You just can’t stop basking in the glory of being the one who put the final nail in their Subforum and then just keep trolling whoever happens to disagree with you and your camp. For instance if Grog wants to say that GSO 4.1 is the cat’s meow, then he ought to be able to state his opinion which incidentally I seriously doubt I will agree with that assessment even though Grog is my very trusted Blade Forums Friend.

 

[craytab]

I'm curious to know what these die hard fans of survive think about survive! Insuring a customer's package for HALF THE VALUE. Read post #127 and #131.

A guy has 1000$ in knives, and never gets them after waiting for YEARS. Survive! refunds him HALF the money because that's what they insured it for. Unbelievable and unacceptable.

What's the excuse for this one?

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/7-7.1495617/page-7

Add that to the list of bad business practices. It is common sense that a seller, to protect themself, should insure for the full value. They couldn't afford the extra couple bucks? That is just dumb.

 

[craytab]

Shinyedges, I will comment for myself:

Why do you keep peddling and propagating the false narrative that I’m a “die hard” fan of S! Knives when I have already stated on many occasions that I had moved from my previous position of being a fan of their knives well over 2 years ago and even when I was involved in many heated exchanges in that infamous MLM thread, “when is it legal...” I was always consistent in stating that the day Survive! stopped issuing refunds (their refund turn around was very quick back then IIRC) I’d change my position. I have made plenty of posts criticizing their putrid practices since.

As for their knives, I don’t currently own any but owned like 8-9 in total, half of which I bought as 2nds directly which were delivered within 30-60 days (I was lucky to not get mired in their later mess) and the other ones from private parties here on the Exchage. When I bought my first knife and then the second one from another D3V maker on here (S! wasn’t up to speed on their Deltas then) I made a decision that this other business deserved my money and business loyalties over S! I liked his knives much better in addition to his sale method which at that time certainly was not for everyone not quick to draw, but suited me just fine.

The point which you still refuse to accept is the fact that some people still happen to like GSOs for their own reasons without being a fan of Survive! Knives as a business entity. IMHO, here’s the problem with you:

You just can’t stop basking in the glory of being the one who put the final nail in their Subforum and then just keep trolling whoever happens to disagree with you and your camp. For instance if Grog wants to say that GSO 4.1 is the cat’s meow, then he ought to be able to state his opinion which incidentally I seriously doubt I will agree with that assessment even though Grog is my very trusted Blade Forums Friend.

If you are responding to someone, please quote them. It makes the discussion much easier to follow.

 

[craytab]

Lets not forget some other elephants in the room. SK knives are no longer a "value knife".

Per SK!'s about us, and what (was) previously their market position claim was to be a very reasonable priced high end production knife.
" Not only are you getting an exceptional tool, you're receiving an incredible value "
Well, that market claim is no longer true. Both Time and Risk have real-world intrinsic and monetary values associated. That is a fact. If you look at the time (now >3+ years) for outstanding prepaid knives, AND the credible risk associated with loosing your money from a bankruptcy, the "Value" claim of SK! is no longer true. Especially when you compare SK! against other manufacture's knives. You can see this fact born out on the secondary market (like ebay) where the 7/7 is now trying to sell at $500. That extra $200 premium is a time and risk premium, not just a rarity premium. Arguably, a $500 market value production knife is hardly a "value", deal.

But it gets worse.. another elephant in the room we need to remember, a big part of the marketing and "value" of the GSO! knives was it's "lifetime warranty". But as the company's credible risk of bankruptcy/failure increases, the "lifetime warranty" becomes of less and less value. In that respect, my personal owned GSO knives are already depreciating in value.

I think your last bit is very important. The warranty consideration should be off the table. They won't be around to fulfill it.

 

[Casinostocks]

If you are responding to someone, please quote them. It makes the discussion much easier to follow.

While I was typing, another post sandwiched in between but you’re right:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-what-changed.1602052/page-14#post-18314247

 

[Casinostocks]

I think you last bit is very important. The warranty consideration should be off the table. They won't be around to fulfill it.

The terminology “lifetime guarantee / warranty” is a BS marketing misnomer but it sounds heckuva lot better than the alternative:

“guaranteed as long as my business stands and BTW, this is my first ever attempt at my own business with this caveat that I’ve never ran or been involved with another business at any upper managerial capacity”

 

[Boru13]

You just can’t stop basking in the glory of being the one who put the final nail in their Subforum and then just keep trolling whoever happens to disagree with you and your camp.

There's no trolling in his last post, could he have done without the quotes... maybe.

Survive put that final nail in their subforum, nobody else.

 

[craytab]

While I was typing, another post sandwiched in between but you’re right:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-what-changed.1602052/page-14#post-18314247

Hit the reply button below the post you are replying to and it will be quoted. It is easier than posting a link. If you do this you don't need to worry about someone else posting before you.

 

[craytab]

The terminology “lifetime guarantee / warranty” is a BS marketing misnomer but it sounds heckuva lot better than the alternative:

“guaranteed as long as my business stands and BTW, this is my first ever attempt at my own business with this caveat that I’ve never ran or been involved with another business at any upper managerial capacity”

It's not bs marketing when a good business uses it. Survive using it is a joke.

 

[scout1sg]

No offence intended here, but I want to use your post because it's a perfect example of why the Survive! Forum had to go.
You state that they "came out with" the SK line. All they did was announce a new knife line (as it turns out) a year before it's even (maybe) in the pipeline, But people talk about it like it's a reality. They don't exist!
They are too good at fooling people.
Had to go.

None taken Danbot, just assumed it was their take to potentially work around such a ruling if they were even aware of it. Certainly not right none the less.

 

[Casinostocks]

There's no trolling in his last post, could he have done without the quotes... maybe.

Survive put that final nail in their subforum, nobody else.

You will certainly not hear any argument from me regarding everything that has ytanspired WRT Survive! downfall to shame! It has been of no one else’s doing but their own misdeeds and malfeasances. Further, I have also on the record saying that the archiving of their subfrom was a good thing if for nothing else, for the fact that the subforum was not being tended to other than essentially regurgitating the same talking points of the past 18 months!

The final nail analogy was referring to Shiney’s thread about that subject which I had assumed was the last impetus but then again, I’m not privy to any behind the scene discussions. Again, no issues or arguments from me regarding any of those circumstances.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I read some and was not going to post at all but after seeing so many personal attacks and misplaced anger I decided to post only once ...

I can understand a healthy disagreement and sometimes that can become heated ... I understand that ...

and I understand the business practices were not good whether just ineptness or a fraudulant scam ... but only those involved or someone investigating deeper could say ... either way the model was broken ...

but I hate to read posts with members attacking members over a companies choices ... and whether you think Survive knives are grade A or worthless when I first came to these forums so many were crowning them the best thing going ... some that are now attacking personally those that still say they are quality knives even though the business practices are atrocious ...

there are more than one brand of knife that have in the last few years been considered amazing knives but the business or owners or those associated with a brand have been found to not be what they claim and at that point many make a choice to not back that product for those reasons ... it doesn't instantly make the product terrible ...

but I respect those that chose to support brands that are on point produce good products and don't pretend to be what they aren't or don't make promises they can't keep ...

but I would hope as adults we could voice our opinions without attacking one another over something like this.

I personally purchased one Survive knife and was early on and received it in a reasonable time frame ... and it is a quailty blade ... I have since found better with a brand I respect highly that has excellent communications and is very open and upfront with its customers and puts out IMHO some of the best blades available in the catagory they produce in ... and I will continue to support them for those reasons ...

so no matter which side you fall on the subject of this thread ... can we try to not drag other good members through the mud and focus your anger, disgust, love, or opinions on Survive and the real subject?

No reason to allow a disfunctional brand cause such divide in members.

Just my 2 cents worth - JJ

 

[craytab]

You will certainly not hear any argument from me regarding everything that has ytanspired WRT Survive! downfall to shame! It has been of no one else’s doing but their own misdeeds and malfeasances. Further, I have also on the record saying that the archiving of their subfrom was a good thing if for nothing else, for the fact that the subforum was not being tended to other than essentially regurgitating the same talking points of the past 18 months!

The final nail analogy was referring to Shiney’s thread about that subject which I had assumed was the last impetus but then again, I’m not privy to any behind the scene discussions. Again, no issues or arguments from me regarding any of those circumstances.

The thread was only bringing attention to the issue. The thread was not the reason they got booted. Once brought to light, survive's practices are what got them ousted.

 

[shinyedges]

Shinyedges, I will comment for myself:

Why do you keep peddling and propagating the false narrative that I’m a “die hard” fan of S! Knives when I have already stated on many occasions that I had moved from my previous position of being a fan of their knives well over 2 years ago and even when I was involved in many heated exchanges in that infamous MLM thread, “when is it legal...” I was always consistent in stating that the day Survive! stopped issuing refunds (their refund turn around was very quick back then IIRC) I’d change my position. I have made plenty of posts criticizing their putrid practices since.

As for their knives, I don’t currently own any but owned like 8-9 in total, half of which I bought as 2nds directly which were delivered within 30-60 days (I was lucky to not get mired in their later mess) and the other ones from private parties here on the Exchage. When I bought my first knife and then the second one from another D3V maker on here (S! wasn’t up to speed on their Deltas then) I made a decision that this other business deserved my money and business loyalties over S! I liked his knives much better in addition to his sale method which at that time certainly was not for everyone not quick to draw, but suited me just fine.

The point which you still refuse to accept is the fact that some people still happen to like GSOs for their own reasons without being a fan of Survive! Knives as a business entity. IMHO, here’s the problem with you:

You just can’t stop basking in the glory of being the one who put the final nail in their Subforum and then just keep trolling whoever happens to disagree with you and your camp. For instance if Grog wants to say that GSO 4.1 is the cat’s meow, then he ought to be able to state his opinion which incidentally I seriously doubt I will agree with that assessment even though Grog is my very trusted Blade Forums Friend.

As you were already corrected on, nothing I said was trolling. I noticed you completely avoided what my post was about though. Anything to say about insuring a package for half what the customer paid, and then making the customer eat the loss?

 

[Casinostocks]

As you were already corrected on, nothing I said was trolling. I noticed you completely avoided what my post was about though. Anything to say about insuring a package for half what the customer paid, and then making the customer eat the loss?

You lost me at the diehard fanboy accusatory tag, so didn't bother to read the rest. Stand corrected and then we will discuss what you raise, in a civilized manner.