Survive! knives

I'm waiting for a 6" knife in S7 ;)

But what about S5 steel?
It can take a higher hardness than S7 and is even a bit tougher.

s5-chart.gif


blockS5.jpg


http://www.hudsontoolsteel.com/technical-data/steelS5
 
Neo said:
I'm waiting for a 6" knife in S7 ;)

But what about S5 steel?
It can take a higher hardness than S7 and is even a bit tougher.
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Don't start! Some of us are having enough trouble comprehending 3V vs S7. :roll eyes:



:D
 
I had a hard time finding the price of these steels online, but I don't see a lot of difference.

S7: .125X2X18 inches costs $76

CPM-3V: .207X1.5X24 inches costs $59
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If I am calculating it right, s7 seems significantly more expensive than 3v. I thought one of the main points of using S7 in the new models was to save money on materials.

S7 = ($76)/(0.125*2*18) = $16.89 per cubic inch

3v = ($59)/(0.207*1.5*24) = $7.92 per cubic inch
 
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olybears57 said:
Thanks! Out of shot, we had bear boxes (big aluminum boxes that we are lucky enough to have mules pack up for us) to sit on, otherwise I probably would have made something up!
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Ah of course...and having something else carry stuff for you....way to go!
 
d2k5000 said:
If I am calculating it right, s7 seems significantly more expensive than 3v. I thought one of the main points of using S7 in the new models was to save money on materials.

S7 = ($76)/(0.125*2*18) = $16.89 per cubic inch

3v = ($59)/(0.207*1.5*24) = $7.92 per cubic inch
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The difference you may be seeing here is likely because of the thickness of the steel pieces used for the example. Thinner steel takes a bit more work because they have to roll it more times to get it down to a thinner gauge, so it typically costs more on a per pound basis. You can see the rolling process in this video: http://youtu.be/5989aB-kfJ4.

Apples to apples, S7 is usually about half the price of 3V. We also order per pound not cubic inch, I'm not entirely sure about the densities so not sure if that would change much.

Of course this all depends on who you're buying it from, if they think the demand is high for S7 many companies would be happy to charge more for it.

I also want to mention that the different prices of the steel are not the only reason we can offer the discount on the SK series. Most of the savings comes from labor since we don't have to take the extra time to read over an order sheet, do bow drill divots/ferro notches, find the right blade/handles/sheath, etc. I know these tasks seem minor when looking at one order but over a batch of a couple hundred it adds up quickly. In one day, one person can build twice the number of SK knives as GSOs.
 
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To clear up any confusion on the shipping timeline conversation:

We do still owe a few of the GSO-3.5 preorders. Those are top priority on the grinding table, they are the only thing getting sharpened right now. But Guy is still the only one doing edges.

In regards to the sale, a few of the knives were already sharp so a few of the orders have already shipped. There have been a lot of orders placed as part of the sale but we are going to do our best to stick to the 5-15 business day delivery window. We do have a part-timer who is in town for summer break so as soon as Guy gets a blade sharpened it is being built and shipped.

Once these preoreders are done we won't be running a preorder ever again. I am hoping that means we will not only be able to catch up but get ahead at the grinding table since there won't be these huge batches of blades to do all at once. That will significantly decrease the wait time in the future. Unfortunately, the future is not now. Just know that we are doing our best.

This thread is getting a bit muddy with different topics and the whole 32 pages thing... I will see what I can do about a SURVIVE! forum.
 
Thanks Ellie. We know y'all are doing your best and it is worth the wait.

SURVIVE! Ellie said:
To clear up any confusion on the shipping timeline conversation:

We do still owe a few of the GSO-3.5 preorders. Those are top priority on the grinding table, they are the only thing getting sharpened right now. But Guy is still the only one doing edges.

In regards to the sale, a few of the knives were already sharp so a few of the orders have already shipped. There have been a lot of orders placed as part of the sale but we are going to do our best to stick to the 5-15 business day delivery window. We do have a part-timer who is in town for summer break so as soon as Guy gets a blade sharpened it is being built and shipped.

Once these preoreders are done we won't be running a preorder ever again. I am hoping that means we will not only be able to catch up but get ahead at the grinding table since there won't be these huge batches of blades to do all at once. That will significantly decrease the wait time in the future. Unfortunately, the future is not now. Just know that we are doing our best.

This thread is getting a bit muddy with different topics and the whole 32 pages thing... I will see what I can do about a SURVIVE! forum.
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longbeard said:
Yes high wear resistance is referring to edge holding ability.

Maybe this will help regarding the source of me mentioning that S7 steel is 50% tougher than 3V.

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY CHIRAL.GROLIM. POST #486 IN THIS THREAD
"The S!K website lists the hardness of the (S7) steel at 57-58 Rc which is harder than ESEE's 1095, and Charpy tests indicate it (S7) to be 50% tougher than CPM-3v,
full 3-4X tougher than 1095, so you can expect the edge to resist both deformation and chipping better than your 1095 knives with similar geometry."
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Hardness of S!K: http://surviveknives.com/faq#answer2 states that the 3V blades are HT'd to 58-59Rc, S7 to 57-58Rc.

According to Crucible, S7 @ 57Rc Charpy C-notch impact toughness = 125 Ft.lbs = 170 J. (http://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/plastics/crus7p.html)
According to Crucible, 3V @ 58Rc Charpy C-notch impact toughness = 85 Ft.lbs = 113 J. (http://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/plastics/cpm3vp.html)

125/85 = 170/113 = 1.50, making S7 50% tougher than 3V at such hardness.

1095 as HT'd for ESEE is only 55-57Rc (http://www.eseeknives.com/esee-4.htm) which results in ~50-60 J of impact toughness.


How important is that toughness in a knife 0.020" at the shoulder, 20-dps? *shrug* Hitting rocks or concrete, the S7 blade will deform rather than chip to a higher threshold than 3V and both to a higher threshold than the ESEE blade despite how soft the latter is. But the S7 edge will wear or corrode away much faster than 3V, is a little softer so may deform slightly more easily, and stonewashed blades are prettier than coated ;)


Keep up the good work, Guy and Ellie! I want my NeckerII :cool:
 
The difference you may be seeing here is likely because of the thickness of the steel pieces used for the example. Thinner steel takes a bit more work because they have to roll it more times to get it down to a thinner gauge, so it typically costs more on a per pound basis. You can see the rolling process in this video: http://youtu.be/5989aB-kfJ4.

Apples to apples, S7 is usually about half the price of 3V. We also order per pound not cubic inch, I'm not entirely sure about the densities so not sure if that would change much.
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Thanks for the explanation.
 
UffDa said:
Don't start! Some of us are having enough trouble comprehending 3V vs S7. :roll eyes:



:D
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Still :D

Just did a quick google and this is from a nine years old post:

If you can believe the ad copy from Crucible Services, S5 is tougher than S7 at any given hardness and it's an oil-quenched steel like 5160 whereas S7 is supposed to be air-quenched.

Near RC60, S7's charpy score is 85 foot pounds, the same as CPM3V. It gets much tougher when ran a little softer and resists up to 125 foot pounds in that test at RC57.

S5, at RC60, resists 138 foot pounds and at RC57 can resist up to 156 foot pounds.

The C-Notch charpy test involves grinding and polishing a piece of steel so that it has a c-shaped piece missing from its testing surface, whacking the steel with a hammer, and measuring the force required to fracture the piece of steel. It's not a be-all/end-all test, but it gives an idea of the how various steels resist breaking at various hardnesses.

Such results, especially as cobbled from a single source, do not a perfect blade steel make. They do, however, point to S5 being a good steel for idiot-resistant field knives and that's why the steel appeals to me!
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Maybe at a higher hardness of RC59 - RC60 the wear resistance of S5 could also be higher than S7 at RC57-RC58
 
3V vs S7 vs S5 vs 1905 vs Charmin = OCD? :D




OSD for those who don't know is Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
 
Neo said:
Maybe at a higher hardness of RC59 - RC60 the wear resistance of S5 could also be higher than S7 at RC57-RC58
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Nah, the same elements that make S7 less tough also make it more wear resistant, namely chromium and molybdenum, not that EITHER is designed for high wear, nor is such high toughness demonstrably necessary, though slightly higher hardness might be nice. :p

For those curious:
S5 (Labelle Silicon #2) - 0.60% C, 0.25% Cr, 0.30% Mo, 0.20% V, 0.85% Mn, 1.90% Si
Crucible S7 Tool Steel - 0.55% C, 3.25% Cr, 1.40% Mo, 0.25% V, 0.70% Mn, 0.35% Si
 
I realized after posting my angry rant that there was a holiday and so it is a bit unreasonable of me to expect anything to have happened this week. Hoping to get a tracking number next week though :)
 
This is surely nothing super fantastic, but I finally pulled a trigger on a cardinal red Survive! tshirt to go with my super awesome GSO 4.1. My thanks again to the Team. I REALLY like my knife and the linen handles are a dream!


918364D8-A3FC-4A8A-8546-C74A5592093B.jpg
 
At the risk of sounding, well, weird... I can't stop stropping my 4.1. It's already a light saber, easily sharper than any knife I own, but I can't stop. Am I going to get hairy palms? I blame Flexxx.
 
bladeflana said:
Just got my 7/7 today (not from the Moving Sale so don't get stirred up), so now with my 5.1, I have a good backup, or primary. Gonna be a tryin' it out over the next few weeks to see which should lead and which should follow.

Any of you out there run this test and picked a winner?
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5.1 for me! It was just enough knife and had perfect balance
 
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