Survive Knives

[Eric@DLT]

Most people that ordered had some idea of what the potential wait time would be, to some of the new guys they might have had their expectations to high for delivery. Although when some blades started to ship and they said they expect to have them all out by Christmas I think that led people to believe it was just down to assembly.

The main problem, from what I can see, is that Guy and Survive have very little to do with the machining and manufacturing of their knives. They are solely at the mercy of the machinist to fit in their projects and have them done. That goes for water jet, blade grinding, heat treat, and making the handles. I'm sure they'd love to get their knives ASAP because they are either sold or would sell out all that they have. Hell, if they could make enough blades I'd want to sell them too.

These aren't custom, hand made knives and shouldn't be compared to the wait times like skookums or Koster knives. Although the quality that I have seen is at least as good as any Koster I have looked at.

Their machinist is in the next county from where I live and I know they are currently moving to a larger facility so I am sure that isn't helping get things done. They also machine parts for several industries and they have aspirations of making several of their own knives, some of which they have prototypes for.

I'm sure everything will get delivered but if you've got a knife at the bottom of that production list, you might be waiting into next year at this pace.

 

[knifehunt]

To wait that long for a (PRODUCTION) knife is ridiculous. I would NEVER pay 100% up front for a knife from anyone, as this is what usually happens. I've personally (owned) six Survive knives, and they are nothing special, and not worth the wait or aggravation. They are a run of the mill production knife, period. I own many custom, and production knives that are a far better choice.

Folks who run their business in this fashion will never see a penny of my money.

 

[willythekid]

As for you willythekid, I'm fairly new here but I remember reading stuff you posted about maybe a year or so ago about having to wait for a 3.5 or 4.1. I remember you throwing a temper tantrum because of this same issue but you seemed to shut up once your knife showed up.
I'd really like to see a list of these knives that you can get quickly that compare to a Survive! knife's super steel, price and level of quality.
I'll subscribe to this thread just so I can laugh at your response but I'm pretty sure it'll be nothing but crickets here.

Crickets huh? I was outspoken when my knife's deadline was pushed back over and over and over to the tune of about seven months for what was supposed to be production model... but temper tantrum is the farthest thing from the truth. Guy himself owned up to his many business mistakes but of course, as we see now, still has not improved anything other than saying there will be no deadlines. LOL, how convient for him... The reason I "shut up" as you put it, was after I finally received my knife I was done with Survive! knives and their business practices. As far as knives that compare to SK, what replaced mine were Bark Rivers in 3v, Fiddlebacks production line, Lionsteel, Chris Reeve, ZT, ect... YMMV. There are many companies that make great fixed blades in modern super steels that compare in quality and price with SK without all of their hassles. I'm not sure how you were brought up and raised but it's laughable to me that you came on here thinking your opinion and subsequent post were the end-all on the subject. What you and some other SK fan-boys fail to realize is despite what you think, your opinion holds no more weight than anyone else. And that is what I posted... My opinion on Survive! Knives and their business practices. It's my opinion is that SK business practices suck. It's my opinion that the OP deserves to be a little p.o.'d. I'm far from the only one.

 

[stonesell]

I like my GSO 3.5 that I got when they were still back in Pennsylvania, but I would not participate in their current business format. I'm not that patient, to wait an inordinate amount of time. It's way too easy to spend my money elsewhere, and still buy a similar knife from another US manufacturer, that I can get immediate delivery on.

 

[ElConquistador]

Most people that ordered had some idea of what the potential wait time would be, to some of the new guys they might have had their expectations to high for delivery. Although when some blades started to ship and they said they expect to have them all out by Christmas I think that led people to believe it was just down to assembly.

The main problem, from what I can see, is that Guy and Survive have very little to do with the machining and manufacturing of their knives. They are solely at the mercy of the machinist to fit in their projects and have them done. That goes for water jet, blade grinding, heat treat, and making the handles. I'm sure they'd love to get their knives ASAP because they are either sold or would sell out all that they have. Hell, if they could make enough blades I'd want to sell them too.

These aren't custom, hand made knives and shouldn't be compared to the wait times like skookums or Koster knives. Although the quality that I have seen is at least as good as any Koster I have looked at.

Their machinist is in the next county from where I live and I know they are currently moving to a larger facility so I am sure that isn't helping get things done. They also machine parts for several industries and they have aspirations of making several of their own knives, some of which they have prototypes for.

I'm sure everything will get delivered but if you've got a knife at the bottom of that production list, you might be waiting into next year at this pace.

Interesting commentary coming from you. Your line of Ambush knives (not dependent on the mercy of other manufacturers whatsoever) would be in a great position to pick up Survive's slack. Unfortunately the quality was just not there at least with the Alpha that I tried (uneven edge, rough hardware, sheath sucks). Swing and a miss. Maybe making knives is harder than some might think.

 

[Eric@DLT]

I did expect some backlack on me instead of the points brought up. Like Survive's first run of knives, there are things to learn when having your own knives made. The improvements from gen 1 to 2 alphas were subtle but an important step forward. Any further runs will also seem improvements, much like where the 5.1 is currently from where they started.

The biggest difference in our business strategy is we don't need other peoples money to make our knives. We also tell people where they are made. We don't need to hide that. If Guy told you his knives were 95% done by another machinist, he might not be able to string people along so much. Making knives is hard, finding someone to make your knives is even harder.

 

[Standard78]

Crickets huh? I was outspoken when my knife's deadline was pushed back over and over and over to the tune of about seven months for what was supposed to be production model... but temper tantrum is the farthest thing from the truth. Guy himself owned up to his many business mistakes but of course, as we see now, still has not improved anything other than saying there will be no deadlines. LOL, how convient for him... The reason I "shut up" as you put it, was after I finally received my knife I was done with Survive! knives and their business practices. As far as knives that compare to SK, what replaced mine were Bark Rivers in 3v, Fiddlebacks production line, Lionsteel, Chris Reeve, ZT, ect... YMMV. There are many companies that make great fixed blades in modern super steels that compare in quality and price with SK without all of their hassles. I'm not sure how you were brought up and raised but it's laughable to me that you came on here thinking your opinion and subsequent post were the end-all on the subject. What you and some other SK fan-boys fail to realize is despite what you think, your opinion holds no more weight than anyone else. And that is what I posted... My opinion on Survive! Knives and their business practices. It's my opinion is that SK business practices suck. It's my opinion that the OP deserves to be a little p.o.'d. I'm far from the only one.

You just basically proved my point. You kept throwing a fit for months until your knife showed up and then you were quiet.
Nice list of comparably priced knives by the way. They're all outstanding companies but their prices don't compare.
Bringing up how I was brought up... Really?? I was brought up in a military/police family that busted their ass and didn't cry over spilled milk. Being opinionated is my damn right and I'll open my mouth whenever the hell I want to. Deal with it.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Oh, one point that we've mostly skipped is the lack of communication. S!Ks business model is what it is and, while I've stated my position on paying upfront and stand by it, they've seemingly been quite transparent about it. If, however, they are ignoring phone calls and emails, that's just not acceptable from a business of any size that has already taken your money and not yet provided the product in question. Now, I don't know the timeframe in question or if there were issues in receiving calls/emails so I'm not standing in judgement, but I honestly regard that as a more serious issue than the wait times.

 

[ncrockclimb]

I did expect some backlack on me instead of the points brought up. Like Survive's first run of knives, there are things to learn when having your own knives made. The improvements from gen 1 to 2 alphas were subtle but an important step forward. Any further runs will also seem improvements, much like where the 5.1 is currently from where they started.

The biggest difference in our business strategy is we don't need other peoples money to make our knives. We also tell people where they are made. We don't need to hide that. If Guy told you his knives were 95% done by a machinist that got his start in making knives from working with Bark River, he might not be able to string people along so much. Making knives is hard, finding someone to make your knives is even harder.

And with that post, you just ended our business relationship. I spent about $900 with you last year (3 knives), but you will never see another order from me. S!K is hiding nothing about the origin of their product, and for you to imply otherwise is total BS.

 

[Eric@DLT]

I do apologize, I may be the one who is misinformed. From everything I have read it has been implied that Guy was the one making the knives. My response may have been posted in haste with what I saw as an attack at our brand which doesn't have anything to do with the topi. If the manufacture and origins of where their knives are made is public knowledge I haven't seen it, but I haven't been a member here as long as others either so I may have missed it.

I have also never said his knives weren't good and whole heartedly meant it when I said we'd stock his knives too. We like to sell popular products and have even had requests that we did sell them.

 

[B.F.U]

I did expect some backlack on me instead of the points brought up. Like Survive's first run of knives, there are things to learn when having your own knives made. The improvements from gen 1 to 2 alphas were subtle but an important step forward. Any further runs will also seem improvements, much like where the 5.1 is currently from where they started.

The biggest difference in our business strategy is we don't need other peoples money to make our knives. We also tell people where they are made. We don't need to hide that. If Guy told you his knives were 95% done by a machinist that got his start in making knives from working with Bark River, he might not be able to string people along so much. Making knives is hard, finding someone to make your knives is even harder.

That has certainly been added to my knowledge of, and therefore likeliness to buy, their knives.

And with that post, you just ended our business relationship. I spent about $900 with you last year (3 knives), but you will never see another order from me. S!K is hiding nothing about the origin of their product, and for you to imply otherwise is total BS.

I have looked through the Survive! forum here for a long time trying to understand the company. I have talked to other members. I have emailed the company. NOWHERE that I've seen do they say their knives are cut, ground, etc by an outside company. On the other hand, they advertise their use of Peter's Heat Treat and are open about the consulting that Nathan the Machinist does for them. Why keep one aspect of production so hush hush? Is their machinist Nathan?

 

[jeffbird]

Is their machinist Nathan?

That would be a major positive, not a negative.

 

[B.F.U]

That would be a major positive, not a negative.

It's a question, I didn't say it was a negative. The defensiveness some people have about a brand can be off putting. And I agree, it would be good. Is he? Or do you not have any information.

 

[Hard Knocks]

I'm not sure why anyone is making reference to 'fanboy' comments (not you Insipid Moniker, I just wanted to quote/address your post in a moment but didn't want to requote the other stuff). The Survive subforum has been one of the most pleasant places on Blade to find good people that use their equipment. I am going to suggest that those types of references are coming from outside of Bladeforums and should be left there. Bringing it here is inflammatory and seems like trolling to me.

They sounds like fantastic blades, but I still will not pay up front. Once you do that you step out of the role of customer and into the role of investor, and if I'm going to invest I want significant return on my investment, because that's the reward for the risk of losing all of the money you invested if the company goes belly up. I'm not in the business of extending zero interest loans to be repaid by a product at some later date.

This is an excellent statement and the way I generally view this type of thing. In the case of Survive! Knives, I made an exception to these guidelines, and as you pointed out, stepped into the role of investor. All those who made orders in the Starter/Preorder program did so willingly, and the terms were stated clearly in their forum and on their website. A lot of people stayed out for exactly the reasons you outlined. I only went in so deep, and no further, because even with good people and the best intentions there is still risk.

I made a choice to take the risk this time because:

-I wanted to see/help a knifemaker involved in a move to my home state get his feet under him out here.
-The two Survive blades that I had been able to land, one straight from the company, the other off the exchange here, have both been excellent.
-The company has been very involved in their forum here.

It seems that most of the complaints are coming from a lack of research before placing orders.

 

[jeffbird]

It's a question, I didn't say it was a negative. The defensiveness some people have about a brand can be off putting. And I agree, it would be good. Is he? Or do you not have any information.

I do not know whether he does work for them, but I do have first hand knowledge of Nathan's work. I can say from personal knowledge that his work is outstanding, far better than some other knives I have owned (and sold), which cost more than double what he charges.

 

[willythekid]

You just basically proved my point. You kept throwing a fit for months until your knife showed up and then you were quiet.
Nice list of comparably priced knives by the way. They're all outstanding companies but their prices don't compare.
Bringing up how I was brought up... Really?? I was brought up in a military/police family that busted their ass and didn't cry over spilled milk. Being opinionated is my damn right and I'll open my mouth whenever the hell I want to. Deal with it.

The only one throwing a fit around here is you... there are so many great people on BladeForums that understand there can be differing opinions without having a meltdown. You are not one of them. I came on here to voice my opinion in support of the OP and then you came in with your nonsense about my throwing tantrums, which is not true, and how you'll look forward to laughing at my response. Me bringing up your upbringing has to do with the way you treat people. You come off as a jerk. Why? Because you don't agree with my opinion on your favorite brand of knives? Grow up. Why don't Bark River's offerings in 3v compare with SK? How about Andy Roy's Fiddleback production line? They're an outstanding value without the headache of bankrolling their operation. Being opinionated is your right... so is it everyone else's to voice theirs. Deal with it? Nah... I think I've wasted enough of my time on you lol... Have a great day.

 

[SURVIVE!]

Most people that ordered had some idea of what the potential wait time would be, to some of the new guys they might have had their expectations to high for delivery. Although when some blades started to ship and they said they expect to have them all out by Christmas I think that led people to believe it was just down to assembly.

The main problem, from what I can see, is that Guy and Survive have very little to do with the machining and manufacturing of their knives. They are solely at the mercy of the machinist to fit in their projects and have them done. That goes for water jet, blade grinding, heat treat, and making the handles. I'm sure they'd love to get their knives ASAP because they are either sold or would sell out all that they have. Hell, if they could make enough blades I'd want to sell them too.

These aren't custom, hand made knives and shouldn't be compared to the wait times like skookums or Koster knives. Although the quality that I have seen is at least as good as any Koster I have looked at.

Their machinist is in the next county from where I live and I know they are currently moving to a larger facility so I am sure that isn't helping get things done. They also machine parts for several industries and they have aspirations of making several of their own knives, some of which they have prototypes for.

I'm sure everything will get delivered but if you've got a knife at the bottom of that production list, you might be waiting into next year at this pace.

I did expect some backlack on me instead of the points brought up. Like Survive's first run of knives, there are things to learn when having your own knives made. The improvements from gen 1 to 2 alphas were subtle but an important step forward. Any further runs will also seem improvements, much like where the 5.1 is currently from where they started.

The biggest difference in our business strategy is we don't need other peoples money to make our knives. We also tell people where they are made. We don't need to hide that. If Guy told you his knives were 95% done by another machinist, he might not be able to string people along so much. Making knives is hard, finding someone to make your knives is even harder.

Hey Eric,

So nice of you to pay so much attention to my business. Ordinarily, no matter what is going on over here, I like to keep my attention on working and just mind my own business. Since you've decided to be so forthcoming with my business though, I figured that I would stop over here to return the favor.

Firstly, I've openly stated from the beginning that I utilize subcontractors for the heavy machining aspects of my production. I'm a knife designer, turned knife company by necessity and I've only ever guaranteed an end result. I've never claimed to be a custom knife maker, nor do I want to be. We do as much as we possibly can in house and have made large investments to further improve our capabilities and standard. I can't personally afford the 2-3 million dollars worth of heavy equipment though and skilled personnel to run that equipment, so I've sought out who I believe are some of the best and brightest people in the business to help me achieve my desired result. I have a very high standard and only work with those who share the same attention to detail and values that I do. There are only a few reasons why I don't specifically mention who I do work with. One, they are subcontractors who have many customers they do work with and like to keep their affiliations as quiet as possible. Another reason is that we have a segment of customers who would be calling them to ask tons of random questions. They aren't equipped for that. Lastly and perhaps most importantly, it took me a long time to find these people and build relationships. Unless my subcontractors specifically want to have their names mentioned, it really isn't anyone's business who we do work with.

Our SURVIVE! Starter campaign was in direct response to a huge demand for it. Nobody was forced to be involved and we were very clear that there would be quite a wait. Despite the long lead time though, I believe people will realize the value and understand the wait when they're Starter order arrives to their hands. We're a small company. I personally inspect, finish, and sharpen every blade that leaves our shop. No matter what our business model, there is going to be a wait. As we wrap up the preorders we are taking steps to reduce the amount of time between when you pay and when your order ships. With our high demand this won't necessarily increase availability but it will reduce the lead time once an order is placed.

Now, about your "openness". Sure, you're proud to say that your knives are made by BRK&T and stand on your transparency but what is it that BRK&T really does? About exactly the same as I do, albeit on a larger scale. Do they cut their own blanks? No. Do they do their own heat treat? No. Do they have their own handle machines and make their own handles in house? No. Do they machine their own screws? No. Do they even grind their own blades? Well, sort of. Their blades are machine surface ground and rough bevel ground on a machine, they really just "hand finish" the grinds. I know with absolute certainty that your Ambush blades aren't ground in house.

In the end it just comes down to a difference in standards. I have an extremely high standard, so I only work with the best. To me anything less is unacceptable. Being the best means you're always busy, so yeah, sometimes I have to wait in line for my jobs to get done. I have and always will value quality over quantity. I might venture to say that is a lot of the reason we're always sold out.

-Guy

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Hey Eric,

So nice of you to pay so much attention to my business. Ordinarily, no matter what is going on over here, I like to keep my attention on working and just mind my own business. Since you've decided to be so forthcoming with my business though, I figured that I would stop over here to return the favor.

Firstly, I've openly stated from the beginning that I utilize subcontractors for the heavy machining aspects of my production. I'm a knife designer, turned knife company by necessity and I've only ever guaranteed an end result. I've never claimed to be a custom knife maker, nor do I want to be. We do as much as we possibly can in house and have made large investments to further improve our capabilities and standard. I can't personally afford the 2-3 million dollars worth of heavy equipment though and skilled personnel to run that equipment, so I've sought out who I believe are some of the best and brightest people in the business to help me achieve my desired result. I have a very high standard and only work with those who share the same attention to detail and values that I do. There are only a few reasons why I don't specifically mention who I do work with. One, they are subcontractors who have many customers they do work with and like to keep their affiliations as quiet as possible. Another reason is that we have a segment of customers who would be calling them to ask tons of random questions. They aren't equipped for that. Lastly and perhaps most importantly, it took me a long time to find these people and build relationships. Unless my subcontractors specifically want to have their names mentioned, it really isn't anyone's business who we do work with.

Our SURVIVE! Starter campaign was in direct response to a huge demand for it. Nobody was forced to be involved and we were very clear that there would be quite a wait. Despite the long lead time though, I believe people will realize the value and understand the wait when they're Starter order arrives to their hands. We're a small company. I personally inspect, finish, and sharpen every blade that leaves our shop. No matter what our business model, there is going to be a wait. As we wrap up the preorders we are taking steps to reduce the amount of time between when you pay and when your order ships. With our high demand this won't necessarily increase availability but it will reduce the lead time once an order is placed.

Now, about your "openness". Sure, you're proud to say that your knives are made by BRK&T and stand on your transparency but what is it that BRK&T really does? About exactly the same as I do, albeit on a larger scale. Do they cut their own blanks? No. Do they do their own heat treat? No. Do they have their own handle machines and make their own handles in house? No. Do they machine their own screws? No. Do they even grind their own blades? Well, sort of. Their blades are machine surface ground and rough bevel ground on a machine, they really just "hand finish" the grinds. I know with absolute certainty that your Ambush blades aren't ground in house.

In the end it just comes down to a difference in standards. I have an extremely high standard, so I only work with the best. To me anything less is unacceptable. Being the best means you're always busy, so yeah, sometimes I have to wait in line for my jobs to get done. I have and always will value quality over quantity. I might venture to say that is a lot of the reason we're always sold out.

-Guy

Just wondering, can you confirm, deny or explain the phone calls and emails that weren't responded to?

 

[B.F.U]

Hey Eric,

So nice of you to pay so much attention to my business. Ordinarily, no matter what is going on over here, I like to keep my attention on working and just mind my own business. Since you've decided to be so forthcoming with my business though, I figured that I would stop over here to return the favor.

Firstly, I've openly stated from the beginning that I utilize subcontractors for the heavy machining aspects of my production. I'm a knife designer, turned knife company by necessity and I've only ever guaranteed an end result. I've never claimed to be a custom knife maker, nor do I want to be. We do as much as we possibly can in house and have made large investments to further improve our capabilities and standard. I can't personally afford the 2-3 million dollars worth of heavy equipment though and skilled personnel to run that equipment, so I've sought out who I believe are some of the best and brightest people in the business to help me achieve my desired result. I have a very high standard and only work with those who share the same attention to detail and values that I do. There are only a few reasons why I don't specifically mention who I do work with. One, they are subcontractors who have many customers they do work with and like to keep their affiliations as quiet as possible. Another reason is that we have a segment of customers who would be calling them to ask tons of random questions. They aren't equipped for that. Lastly and perhaps most importantly, it took me a long time to find these people and build relationships. Unless my subcontractors specifically want to have their names mentioned, it really isn't anyone's business who we do work with.

Our SURVIVE! Starter campaign was in direct response to a huge demand for it. Nobody was forced to be involved and we were very clear that there would be quite a wait. Despite the long lead time though, I believe people will realize the value and understand the wait when they're Starter order arrives to their hands. We're a small company. I personally inspect, finish, and sharpen every blade that leaves our shop. No matter what our business model, there is going to be a wait. As we wrap up the preorders we are taking steps to reduce the amount of time between when you pay and when your order ships. With our high demand this won't necessarily increase availability but it will reduce the lead time once an order is placed.

Now, about your "openness". Sure, you're proud to say that your knives are made by BRK&T and stand on your transparency but what is it that BRK&T really does? About exactly the same as I do, albeit on a larger scale. Do they cut their own blanks? No. Do they do their own heat treat? No. Do they have their own handle machines and make their own handles in house? No. Do they machine their own screws? No. Do they even grind their own blades? Well, sort of. Their blades are machine surface ground and rough bevel ground on a machine, they really just "hand finish" the grinds. I know with absolute certainty that your Ambush blades aren't ground in house.

In the end it just comes down to a difference in standards. I have an extremely high standard, so I only work with the best. To me anything less is unacceptable. Being the best means you're always busy, so yeah, sometimes I have to wait in line for my jobs to get done. I have and always will value quality over quantity. I might venture to say that is a lot of the reason we're always sold out.

-Guy

Hi Guy,

Thanks for responding. I really value an owner that is willing to speak with the customers, especially us who are so passionate about knives. I have been interested in your knives for a long time, originally because I loved the designs, the material, the packaging, that you use Peter's, and that you were from PA. I'm still interested, but to be honest have been seriously dismayed by the seemingly indefinite wait times and a general inability to get your knives for a reasonable (non-secondary market) price. Like I said, I'm hoping to purchase one once you have them in stock as I don't like paying up front for a production knife. I understand that you have work contracted out, and I believe that you take the quality of work done to your knives very seriously. I hope you keep that high standard even if production rises, especially the individual hand inspection. However, I'm wondering why there has been such a long wait time in the first place if they're being contracted out to a professional service (who sounds to be of a significant size and capacity)? Considering the capital created by the starter program, aren't there steps that could be taken to raise production in a meaningful way while still maintaining a high quality standard?

FWIW, your company has responded to all my emails. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount of detailed explanation given in response to one inquiry. However, none of my messages have concerned a delayed order, but have been about ordering in the future.

 

[AdamFuzzyballs]

Not that Guy or Survive! needs anybody to defend them, but..
S!K gets dozens of emails a day im sure. As far as i know, there are maybe two people who respond to those. As far as phone calls, its the same thing. Ellie posts on here pretty often, comparable to any other manufacturer ive seen on BF. She has said before (paraphrasing), they dont have all day to sit around and reply to emails, especially when they are working as fast as possible to get the knives done so people dont have to wait even longer. Be patient, they arent ignoring you. They are BUSY.

If you want to criticize someone for being slow to respond, take a shot at the big companies who actually have people whose whole job consists of responding to customers. Explain why it still takes them weeks to reply. I have experience in this very situation (not naming who because this thread is not about them.) but its a huge company.

You say you can buy comparable knives, then do it. I respect your opinion, we disagree and thats fine. Here is my opinion: Survive! knives are the best production knives i have ever had the pleasure of owning. The man and woman and workers behind the product have and will do whatever they can to make the customer happy.

If you arent willing to wait for the prime rib, then go ahead and order the big mac somewhere else.