Survivors! Suggestion Box for Survive! Knives...

I am pretty sure something is wrong with the online email question form, I have sent an inquiry or 2 that went completely unanswered, even when drawing attention to it. but when dealt with directly my needs were met in a timely manner. i don't think it's a coincidence that many have used the online form only to be ignored. I don't think it's a matter of addressing those emails quicker rather than simply not getting them in a timely fashion or at all. I know my personal email has sent important emails straight to the trash or marked them as spam and went unnoticed until I discovered the issue.
 
Hope they can fix that issue, if that is indeed the issue which is seems to be. This is not the first time when direct website email channels have proven to be unreliable. They have a nice website and judging by the level of its sophistication they have poured in some $$$$ into that site. Hopefully their webmaster can get a handle on this matter sooner than later.
 
Just thinking out loud with another unsolicited and i am sure unwanted "suggestion":

Previously there were some talks about as to whether some people on the current preorder lists who are daunted by the longer than anticipated wait time for fulfillment, would be willing to sell their preorders to an interested party who for some reason or other had missed out on the preorders. I also recall that Ellie had mentioned that she would be OK with that as long as the potential seller and the potential buyer could come to an agreement and then I presume that she would be willing to change the shipping address of that order.

So how about something like this which is a rough idea and i am sure that some of you clever clogs (;)) can add to this idea and have it refined:

Let's say that either Survive! Ellie or someone else who is much more esteemed than me (Hmmm! I wonder whom?) starts a thread that can also be sticky'd under a banner to the effect of opting out of an order. In order to not burden Survive! with frivolous and wishy washyness, that option should only be limited to ONE occurrence per preorder seller on here. The working out of the details are going to be intricate and i would personally not do this no matter how badly I felt that I had missed out, but if it going to help out a distraught preorder buyer who has already put a stake into this and also a willing new buyer to assume some risks, then why not? I think that cancelling orders for refunds may put some untoward pressure on Survive! and may open the floodgates. This way means no cancellation and no refund just swapping shipping addresses only. No changing of the options, yada yada! AS-IS!
 
I think your previous responses to this topic opened up great points that are substantial enough to prevent S!K from taking the risk.

Perhaps it's easier to refund said disgruntled buyer and if there are enough slots, just a wild guess like 10 open, Ellie can open a short pre sale and sell them in minutes.

I'd be all over it.
 
Yeah as I had previously stated regarding that topic, I would NOT touch that one with a 10 feet pole no matter how badly I wanted a certain GSO I had missed out on. PayPal all acts like a bank, but it is far from being a regulated bank. Too many loopholes and pitfalls in favor of the buyer or the person who sends you funds. I rarely keep more than a Grand max in my PP balance.

It will absolutely be easier and Safer for Ellie to do this through Survive! and will only take a few days at most (till a designated Monday) for Survive! to recoup the refund. In fact if it was up to me, I would sell that requested cancellation first and then would refund it on a Tuesday, because I suggest Survive! to NOT keep a large amount of cash in their PP account and just refund through PP for the funds which were originally sent through PP. Credit cards through their own payment portal would be an entirely different and easier issue.
 
Casino, you are a true master of font :) but you also give me too much credit.

I can't remember now, was Ellie really on board with the idea of changing orders?

I do understand the concept of giving or trading or selling one's "spot in line", but I wonder if there's too much room for something to go wrong between parties or ultimately backfire on S! ?

I'm not sure how much of a headache a canceled order is for Ellie, so I don't want to fully endorse it quite yet, but I'll take Justin's idea in a slightly different direction by suggesting letting folks cancel orders and then taking those blades and selling them on Mondays. If there's extra handles and sheaths anyways, the specifics of their order might not matter.

For their sake I wish SURVIVE! would have adopted our azwelke's policy: if you hassle me, I'll refund your order!
 
Silver, you know that I'm just teasing you my friend :)

Yes, I agree that the best way is to create an order cancellation form and then sell that order on a Monday. That said, we all get the feeling that Ellie is very overwhelmed as it already is and order cancellation not only add a cashflow burden but also heap onto the administrative to do list!

In future though, if Survive! does incorporate order cancellations into their pre-production ordering program, they may also wish to add an acceptable re-stocking fee (10% for preorders seems to be fair, but some knife makers charge 2 or 3 times that amount). That said,
Guy seems to be a man-of-the-people so I am fairly certain that he will reject both of my ideas regarding charging on par for Factory 2nds plus shipping and also charging a re-stocking fee ;)
 
The downside to not offering refunds is a potential onslaught of negative remarks targeted at SURVIVE! and/or unnecessary complications swapping "spots in line". This negativity could fester for years until these customers receive the items they paid for. I agree that the loss, through refund, would be immediately recouped and would do a lot to help repair the recent damage to the company image. And believe me, these conversations reach FAR beyond the confines of these forums. Bladeshow is next week, and already the SURVIVE! issue has cropped up in several conversations. I wish everyone could act civil, but this just isn't going to happen when/IF individuals are forced to wait for years for an order they thought they'd receive in a few months.

Having said that, how about a sticky tagged "Commit to refund". Those that would like a refund "commit" on the sticky. The following Monday, those order items are put up as a re-pre-order (haha). SURVIVE! will then have been paid TWICE for ONE order, and then the refund can be issued to the original purchaser.

It will take effort, but it will be organized effort. It could also do more, than immediately apparent, for SURVIVE!:)

EDIT: Also... what Casinostocks said.
 
Silver Needle said:
I can't remember now, was Ellie really on board with the idea of changing orders?

I do understand the concept of giving or trading or selling one's "spot in line", but I wonder if there's too much room for something to go wrong between parties or ultimately backfire on S! ?
Click to expand...

from JustinFournier's 5.1 preorder thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1393580-GSO-5-1-preorder-opening-soon!:

JustinFournier said:
We should see if Ellie is OK with people taking their spot.
Click to expand...

SURVIVE! Ellie said:
If that’s how people want to run things I’m not going to say no, but I want no part of it. If someone is willing to take your money and walk away that’s fine, they can just contact me with an updated shipping address.
Click to expand...
 
I have not seen anyone say they actually want a refund yet. I've said previously I would take someones spot if they wanted out and add $20 for their trouble and had no takers.

I think this could be a small money making opportunity. Maybe a few people pledge to put in several thousand, buy up the slots/knives and can later resell at a profit. There are 1000 ways to skin a cat. I don't think any of that is really necessary. I'm pretty confident Ellie could list refunded orders, factory firsts and sell them in minutes. She is probably not commenting as there is nothing that needs to be addressed.

Look at the 5.1. Many selling at a premium on the secondary market went unsold, and apparently S!K sold hundreds in 48 hours during the short order window. All the knives in production now are also the more popular models. There is obviously tons of demand.

I really think it's just people who actually want the knife they ordered, but are frustrated with waiting, and just want to vent off a little steam, and maybe help push things along quicker.

Maybe they figure Guy is sitting in front of his HD projector playing call of duty 4 taking bong hits all day. If they just come and complain a little, he will put his controller down and go into the shop and build their knife, which has been sitting back there for months waiting for Guy to end his winning streak. Who knows.

The S!K website still says:

"Once a model starts production it typically takes 4-6 months for all of the materials to be produced and another 1-2 months to get orders finished, sharpened, and built."

It doesn't say 2-3 years.

Take their word for it, and trust them with your money. Or ask for a refund. Ellie has said the upset caused by delays when she gave dates has given her reason to no longer give dates. Then people ask for dates.

And if people don't want to read complaining, there is a ignore setting for that. Anyone who is personally attacking people for personally attacking people is equally guilty of making this a conflict ridden toxic exchange.
 
Maybe they figure Guy is sitting in front of his HD projector playing call of duty 4 taking bong hits all day. If they just come and complain a little, he will put his controller down and go into the shop and build their knife, which has been sitting back there for months waiting for Guy to end his winning streak. Who knows
Click to expand...

Haha! This analogy is so Gen-X of you. As an older fa*t, I don't even think in that way! I am considered a Boomer and I tell you, that friggin generation spans like 30 years! How can my aunts and I belong to the same generation? That's so farqued up!

Look at the 5.1. Many selling at a premium on the secondary market went unsold, and apparently S!K sold hundreds in 48 hours during the short order window. All the knives in production now are also the more popular models. There is obviously tons of demand.
Click to expand...

If you look at eBay's GSO listings and sales over the last couple of days, you will notice an uptick in their prices. As "luck" would have it, I listed my 5.1s during that very same week when Survive! ran a special 48 hour window for 5.1 preorders! In any case as you know I let go of the
20CV version on the Exchange here for a more reasonable price to its buyer and less headache for me than the other side but one thing which I never told anyone till now was the couple of hate email which I had received and I was the lowest priced potential seller at that time! I'd hate
to see what kind of hate email people are receiving on their $450 OBO priced GSO 5.1s! :D
 
Thanks, nandok. Exactly the posts needed!

Justin, your humorous speculation caught me by surprise and made me laugh out loud. Not only was it funny because it seems so wildly out of character for Guy, but that comment seemed out of character for YOU and the little you and I know eachother here :D Ha!
 
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Casino & Silver,

I don't actually have any first hand knowledge of that stuff but we have a few younger guys at work in their mid 20s who are always taking time off and live like that. I hear what's cool from them. I don't even have cable tv or Facebook. I'm getting old now and not just old school I guess. I did try and make it as out of character and unrealistic as possible to illustrate a point while using a little humour :)
 
I work 24/7 (seriously, engineer on call), so I haven't had time to completely read through all the "potential issues". Could you please enlighten me?
 
Thanks for the abbreviated points. Chargebacks can be handled through documented conversation (read: forum posts, PMs, etc), and Non-delivery is why we're having this conversation ;)

Seriously though, I've reached out to SURVIVE! using the sites "message" system, in an attempt to avoid some of the more "vocal" members here and avoid conflict. I don't mind the wait (for delivery OR refund), but I now feel embarrassed to carry their logo with me after seeing how SURVIVE! is treating their customers. Several have brought up valid concerns, only to be shutdown by the community, with no response or help offered by the business owners. A lot of us don't know Guy and Ellie like some of you do. My experience with them is limited to the last few months. Great tools or not, the whole experience has pushed me away. Indeed, it would seem some member(s) (forte_defense) actively WANT to diminish the size of this community. It's too bad really, because it's the same reason I won't go into a store that won't allow me to bring my firearm. Principle.

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/disputes-chargebacks
 
Tech: it will just be a cleaner process if and when Survive! decides to allow preorder buyers to cancel their orders. We are all in agreement that those cancelled orders will fly off the proverbial shelf if Survive! offers them for sale on Mondays as, "prior cancellations".

Regarding your sentiment about Survive!: my recommendation is that you wait out 30 more days and find out for yourself what this new and exciting news was (I am paraphrasing Ellie from a recent post on Saturday) that they were imminent to
release but eventually held back because of fearing that it may be construed as yet another failed promise / target. I am hoping that after Survive! has had a chance to deal with their personal issues in the coming month, they will come back and tackle the simmering
and the bubbling business issues with a more feasible and doable new schedule beyond June.
 
Agreed. Time off can certainly help clear ones' head, but I've already forgotten how that works since it's been over 7 years since my last vacation!!! I really do hope things come together for SURVIVE! They've got a tough battle ahead!
 
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