"Tactical" Is Not a Purpose of Use and Represents an Undesirable Design Feature

I think your analysis is way over-thought. Tactical is just a marketing term that can, depending on the knife, actually imply how it might well be used. In other words, some "tactical" knives very well might serve a soldier well on a deployment. It would be sturdy, not shiny, easy to deploy whether fixed or folding, easy to maintain. So it is not indicative of Undesirable Design Features. Some of the features of "tactical" knives can very useful...to a soldier or anybody. Now of course plenty of characteristics may not offer much. For example a 9" Tactical Bowie is frankly not going to be very useful to most soldiers if even permitted. A million of them will get snapped up by civilians.

If we agree that a "tactical" knife is one that is useful to a soldier (and I see nowhere where we do agree on that but just for the sake of argument) probably the most "tactical" of knives in this day and age will be the knife blades on Leatherman and Gerber multitools as most of those on this forum who've served on recent deployments found things like the Leatherman wave the most useful of anything they carried.

Conversely, there are a lot of what would be called tactical knives (whether their mfgrs call them that or not) are some fine knives. Busse on the expensive end, Becker on the affordable end. All very tough, handy useful and "tactical" knives.

Don't like tactical? Get a Puukko!
 
Given the fact that Finnish soldiers routinely carried puukot into war with the Soviet Union, a puukko is perhaps not the best example of a knife not useful to a soldier. Some modern versions seem even more suitable for military use.



But as an example of "non-tactical," absolutely. :thumbup:
 
Thomas Linton said:
Given the fact that Finnish soldiers routinely carried puukot into war with the Soviet Union, a puukko is perhaps not the best example of a knife not useful to a soldier. Some modern versions seem even more suitable for military use.



But as an example of "non-tactical," absolutely. :thumbup:
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Well in this case, puukko is included in the name of that thing because puukko is simply a Finnish word for knife. However, as a style of knives, which are actually found all over Scandinavia, Finland, and even into Russia, to which the word has been tagged, this thing is not. This thing is a very good example of a "tactical" knife given the rather vague definition we have to go on.

As a style of knife originating in the extreme north of Europe, this is a Puukko (note the captital P).

kalajokilaakso.jpg
 
Oakengroves said:
This post may generate a proverbial crap storm. If so, hold on to your umbrellas.

"Tactical" is not a philosophy or purpose of use. It is not a desirable design feature in a knife. What is "tactical?" It is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible. Let's be honest here: how many of you have ever, in any way, used a knife in a self-defense situation? Ten-percent of forum goers, perhaps? How many people in the general population, which consists overwhelmingly of civilian EDC and outdoorsman users, have ever used a knife in a tactical application? It is especially painful to watch knife reviewers critique/reject outstanding knives for the purpose that it is not sufficiently "tactical," especially when tactical uses are all but mythical.

Granted, there is a small, close-knit community of ACTIVE military and LEO that might, conceivably need a knife for "tactical purposes." But "tactical" applications of knives among members of the military is an extreme rarity; instead, knives are more akin to tools and sharpened pry-bars. This begs an obvious question: if "tactical" applications are incredibly rare, why do tactical design features dominate the modern folding knife industry? Why are design trends being pushed in a direction that perceive of knives not as EDC cutting tools, but as "black on black tactical hard use folder of ultimate doom?" If anything, "tactical" represents a placebo effect and source of ownership pride for many knife users, who value military aesthetics and life styles. Carrying a tactical knife, perhaps, is a way to feel connected to those aesthetics and the basic human instinct of "I'm armed, look out, bwahahahaa."

"Tactical" is a concept that has infected almost all modern production folders to one degree or another, with exceptions few and far between. Symptoms of "tactical" knife design disease are excessive jimping, excessively rough grip, unnecessarily thick blade stocks, impractical opening features, blade coatings on stainless steels, and a number of other features that defy any logical explanation. Further symptoms include militaristic marketing and branding, excessive LEO/military discounts, and what has become an arms race to produce the biggest and baddest 'hard use' folder. It has resulted in an increase in fatter, thicker, "hard use" knifes that weigh more, slice less easily, and strive to achieve the "tactical weapon" aesthetic.

I own and love dozen of knives that embrace the tactical aesthetic to one degree or another, but the features that make it "tactical" are usually the weakest aspect of the knife. For instance, the 810 Contego handles outdoor and EDC use like a boss (breaking down huge boxes, batoning wood, etc.) but suffers from awkward amounts of jimping. My large voyager slices like a dream, but has scales that obliterate slacks and light denim.

I'm not saying that tactical design features do not serve a purpose. Instead, I'm arguing that such features are over represented and driven by an artificial, philosophy/purpose of use. This philosophy, as I've tried to capture, is influencing modern folding knife design in unfortunate ways by promoting design features that do not meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of knife users. The Sebenza 25 is a shining example (wider blade stock, heavier, and more jimping than Sebenza 21).

At the end of the day, what should be done? Is tactical a long-lasting but passing fad? Will people ever grow out of the tactical aesthetic? If not, will it continue to influence and negatively impact knife designs?

Questions, questions. Coffee.
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I agree 100% with your post. I've been jumped on a few times here for pointing out my own similar thoughts. As a former deputy sheriff I have a very different take on this issue than some of the younger members here.
 
And Finns famously carried what YOU are willing to call a Puukko into war. They have taken a traditional puukko (Puukko for you) blade shape and built it into a dedicated military knife - the M95 illustrated.
 
Hesitated to sort of resurrect an oldish post, and I'll try to be brief.

3 years ago come mid August I was attacked by a German Shepard as I wandered around lost looking for a friends house. Not much of a city fellow, and I do tend to get turned around when its a street sign and not the sun or the trees providing direction. Anyway, from out of nowhere came a snapping, snarling wolf-sized beast that wanted a piece of me so bad he could already taste it. I won't go into the gory details but he had me by the strong side forearm where my Glock was holstered and I had little choice but to snap out the Military from my left pocket and try to fend him off. His owner came flying outside and was screaming "Don't hurt him, don't hurt him", and she meant for me and not the dog to back off.

Let me tell you, that beast really chewed me up. By the time the police and EMT fella's came I was bleeding like the proverbial stuck pig. I'd tried to fashion a tourniquet from a handkerchief but it wasn't really doing much of anything so I was mighty glad when the cavalry arrived to save the day.

The dog died and the owners actually tried suing me but the State Attorney fined them for harboring "an un-socialized animal, and to top it off the dog hadn't gotten a single vaccination since he was a pup so that meant rabies shots in the gut for me, etc.. And over 100 stitches.

Thank God for my Military. When the police returned it it looked right out of the box, as they were upstanding officers who did all they could, and even cleaned the Glock for me as well. They wanted to know why I just didn't shoot the thing but we were all tangled up and there were people in the street and I just couldn't take that chance. Besides, it had never crossed my mind to kill the dog, not at all. I just wanted him to stop tearing me to shreds. If I had to do it all over again I'd draw down, but that's hindsight.

PS: the military did have a blackened lade so I guess it classified as "tactical".
 
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Lol I don't have three hours to read though all the posts but here's my take:

Totally a marketing tactic that has taken center stage in the knife industry. With knives' growing presence in action movies & tv, younger, more influential audiences would be more willing to buy a so called: "tactical" design over a regular ol' folder. We've all fallen prey to the influences of what I call, "Rambo-Syndrome" lol

I do like to have one or two bigger/heavier designs that one could call "tactical," if shit ever hit the fan, but me seriously using one - and in public - will probably never happen!

So to sum up, it's a freakin' marketing tactic people! Cool shizz sells, why do you think old timer pocket knives are rarely discussed here in the forums?
 
FreebornErik said:
And finally part 7


In the long run, I fear that "tactical" marketing will do a great disservice to the knife using and buying public. Words do have an effect on culture, and what something is called and how its marketed does matter. If you honestly don't believe words matter, you should spend a little time studying both history and current events. Remember, there are entire highly paid professions devoted to word crafting and spinning messaging to the pubic in order to influence public opinion.

Its not that features that are labeled as tactical are undesirable, what is undesirable is that useful features are being labeled as tactical, thereby setting a public perception that said features only have a tactical purpose.

Erik
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There you go people.
 
Yep, I'm sure the "fad" will fade, just like the "survival knife" fad ended with the 1980's.
Oh wait a minute...it didn't...crap!

I think a lot of folks just like to write things off as a "fad" to allow for a momentary feeling of superiority over those who buy into the thing they don't like.
 
stabman said:
I think a lot of folks just like to write things off as a "fad" to allow for a momentary feeling of superiority over those who buy into the thing they don't like.
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Quit thinking so much with emotion people.

I think most of us don't feel "superior" bc we've all bought hyped up knives before - let be honest here. I know I have.

I, however, am not in the military, and don't plan on fighting in battles/covert ops ;) I'm in LE. Even then, one doesn't really need a big/chunky tactical folder. It's just like when I was a kid, I wanted to carry large fixed blades hunting, I remember my dad asking: "what the hell are you gonna do with that? Fight a bear?" Lol - the thing would hang from my belt down to my knees :D true story. In all honesty, they are unpractical. A good 4" fixed is all anyone would ever need.

It's like the recent survival knife thread lol, have you seen what knife Cody Lundin uses, it looks like a beater kitchen knife! Goes to show that you don't always need the biggest, baddest blade to accomplish a task, whether it being tactical or survival. Some food for thought.
 
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P_Meticulous said:
In all honesty, they are unpractical. A good 4" fixed is all anyone would ever need.
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I find a 4" bladed folder more practical for carrying around.

I find it hard to feel superior for having an expensive knife when even people who like knives say things like "THAT cost $500?", and shake their head. :D
But I still buy them, just usually not at that price point all that often. Money can be hard to find sometimes. :)
 
I think calling a knife tactical, is just like calling a car a sports car. We have had sports cars for ages.
An old Corolla would get me to work just as efficiently as my sports car, but I would rather the latter. I think it's OK to call a knife "tactical"
Honestly, I love all of the variety's of knives. Lot's of choices. And It's not always about the kids and what they perceive as 'tactical' or what they think their 'Bomber Jacket' means. It's about choices for people who have different tastes. At least that's my take on this.
If my Emersons and Microtech are considered tactical, then so be it. But I find them to be very useful.
I am lucky enough to have a nice collection going, many Benchmade, Spyderco, Mcusta, etc....But I would really hate them to be all designed with only one philosophy in mind.
Cheers
 
CSG said:
Wow, never heard that tired cliche before...
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Do you think antagonistic posts like this help or hurt the discussion? I'm hoping I don't need to answer for you. :)
 
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Tactical? Carry a gun. Utility?...with a one percent chance of tactical necessity? A knife.
 
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I think the term "Tactical" is used in marketing to conjure up the image of the Military, Marines ect. Honestly, when you think about Military gear what is the first thing that pops in to your mind? Rugged, reliable, tough, takes a beating. There is also the thought of use for self defense ect.

I think in part the term is used to make people look at the knife, see the word tactical, and now view the knife as a reliable tool.

The problem I have with this is a lot of the time the knives are not the greatest cutters. They are thicker behind the edge, use shallower grinds, and heavy stock. Thin is in for me. Just try an Opinel and you will see what I mean. :)
 
Oakengroves said:
This post may generate a proverbial crap storm. If so, hold on to your umbrellas.

"Tactical" is not a philosophy or purpose of use. It is not a desirable design feature in a knife. What is "tactical?" It is the outdated, unrealistic concept of using a knife in a "self-defense" situation against another human being. This is an unrealistic concept given the proliferation of firearms, severe legal consequences of using a knife in self-defense, and rarity of situations where use a knife in self defense is even plausible. Let's be honest here: how many of you have ever, in any way, used a knife in a self-defense situation? Ten-percent of forum goers, perhaps? How many people in the general population, which consists overwhelmingly of civilian EDC and outdoorsman users, have ever used a knife in a tactical application? It is especially painful to watch knife reviewers critique/reject outstanding knives for the purpose that it is not sufficiently "tactical," especially when tactical uses are all but mythical.

Granted, there is a small, close-knit community of ACTIVE military and LEO that might, conceivably need a knife for "tactical purposes." But "tactical" applications of knives among members of the military is an extreme rarity; instead, knives are more akin to tools and sharpened pry-bars. This begs an obvious question: if "tactical" applications are incredibly rare, why do tactical design features dominate the modern folding knife industry? Why are design trends being pushed in a direction that perceive of knives not as EDC cutting tools, but as "black on black tactical hard use folder of ultimate doom?" If anything, "tactical" represents a placebo effect and source of ownership pride for many knife users, who value military aesthetics and life styles. Carrying a tactical knife, perhaps, is a way to feel connected to those aesthetics and the basic human instinct of "I'm armed, look out, bwahahahaa."

"Tactical" is a concept that has infected almost all modern production folders to one degree or another, with exceptions few and far between. Symptoms of "tactical" knife design disease are excessive jimping, excessively rough grip, unnecessarily thick blade stocks, impractical opening features, blade coatings on stainless steels, and a number of other features that defy any logical explanation. Further symptoms include militaristic marketing and branding, excessive LEO/military discounts, and what has become an arms race to produce the biggest and baddest 'hard use' folder. It has resulted in an increase in fatter, thicker, "hard use" knifes that weigh more, slice less easily, and strive to achieve the "tactical weapon" aesthetic.

I own and love dozen of knives that embrace the tactical aesthetic to one degree or another, but the features that make it "tactical" are usually the weakest aspect of the knife. For instance, the 810 Contego handles outdoor and EDC use like a boss (breaking down huge boxes, batoning wood, etc.) but suffers from awkward amounts of jimping. My large voyager slices like a dream, but has scales that obliterate slacks and light denim.

I'm not saying that tactical design features do not serve a purpose. Instead, I'm arguing that such features are over represented and driven by an artificial, philosophy/purpose of use. This philosophy, as I've tried to capture, is influencing modern folding knife design in unfortunate ways by promoting design features that do not meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of knife users. The Sebenza 25 is a shining example (wider blade stock, heavier, and more jimping than Sebenza 21).

At the end of the day, what should be done? Is tactical a long-lasting but passing fad? Will people ever grow out of the tactical aesthetic? If not, will it continue to influence and negatively impact knife designs?

Questions, questions. Coffee.
Click to expand...

First, reduce your caffeine intake. ;) Second, what should be done? Unbunch your panties? It is marketing nonsense and will pass. Let it go, Grasshopper.
 
The marketing world has found something they market based on fashion to men. Men have been tougher nuts to crack than ladies, who buy shoes, handbags, dresses, hairstyles & other things based on nothing other than marketing hype.
Men buy cars & mbikes on engineering & performance, clothes for comfort & purpose.

We buy knives because we like the look of them. Fashion for men. We all have more knives than we need.
The tactical fad will pass, only to be replaced by something else, Marketers won't be letting knives out of their reach. Knives are one of the few things men will buy for no reason.
 
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