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Take Down Fighter Work In Progress
- Thread starter joshsmith
- Start date
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- Nov 14, 2001
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- 1,152
Great pics, Josh. Thanks for taking the time to document everything for our benefit and enjoyment. :thumbup:
riz_aaroni
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,929
Very cool pictures and captions. Hope I can do that one day, would be great.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2005
- Messages
- 27,923
Josh, I just gotta say this is the most 'straight up' knife making thread I've ever seen. Your blow by blow, non-with holding account of how YOU make your knives is totally refreshing and completely awesome:thumbup:.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 646
Thanks guys for your comments. I said in the beginning that this thread would be different. I was going to show the "real" side of knife making. Sometimes we as makers have problems with the constructing of a knife but it never gets shown on forums. Some of these problems are self induced and some are out of our control.
Well as it turns out I had one of those out of my hands problems with this knife. I talked with Kevin about this and decided that instead of hiding the fact that I got a bad blade, I would show it. So here goes. I will explain below.
When I went to etch this blade I mixed up a fresh batch of acid just as I've done five hundred times before. I submerged the blade and here's what I got.
At first I thought it was o.k. In my head I wanted the pattern on the bottom half to not be quite so tight. This happens at times when you make a new pattern. You learn a bit about your layer counts and what you may need to adjust the next time you make a knife. Next time if I were to start with 5 less layers on the bottom part it would look really cool.
There was a bigger issue though. I had recently bought steel that was not from my normal supplier. The 1080 layers in the bar etched like crap. They really pitted bad. This was baffling to me. At first I thought it was my acid, so I mixed up new acid, re-sanded the blade and re-etched. Just as before the etch was terrible. The really strange thing was that there are no flaws in the steel and while grinding and hand sanding the steel look clean as can be. There were no pits. Here is a picture of the pitting.
If you will notice in the bottom of the blade where the 1080 layers are thick there is a whole bunch of pitting. The 15n20 layers look great.
What's even more strange is that I put an edge on this blade and went out and chopped a 2x4 in half with no problem. There is just something in the steel not letting it etch clean.
I have yet to figure out why this 1080 did this but I knew one thing. This blade was NOT quality enough to sell.
The reason that I know it has to be the steel is because the next day I ordered new steel from my new supplier, made a new blade over the next few days and it looked fantastic.
So here is the deal, I hope you don't mind but I have just showed you what can go really wrong. My luck is that it happened to be on a WIP thread. But I decided to go ahead and show you. I am kind of nervous about putting it our here on forums for the whole world to see but it is what it is.
So now I am going to start over. The good thing about this is that I'm going to take this opportunity to make a different Damascus pattern that will look much nicer.
I am going to post pictures of the making of this new blade but I am going to do it very quickly with less shots until I get back to where I was. I don't want to bore you with the same process you just saw. I will explain the Damascus process a bit because I want you to see how the new Damascus pattern will be made.
Please stick with me on this. I apologize to those of you that are disappointed and I hope you don't lose interest but I can assure you that you are not more disappointed than I was.
I can assure you that the new pics will produce a very satisfying result. More pics soon.
Well as it turns out I had one of those out of my hands problems with this knife. I talked with Kevin about this and decided that instead of hiding the fact that I got a bad blade, I would show it. So here goes. I will explain below.
When I went to etch this blade I mixed up a fresh batch of acid just as I've done five hundred times before. I submerged the blade and here's what I got.
At first I thought it was o.k. In my head I wanted the pattern on the bottom half to not be quite so tight. This happens at times when you make a new pattern. You learn a bit about your layer counts and what you may need to adjust the next time you make a knife. Next time if I were to start with 5 less layers on the bottom part it would look really cool.
There was a bigger issue though. I had recently bought steel that was not from my normal supplier. The 1080 layers in the bar etched like crap. They really pitted bad. This was baffling to me. At first I thought it was my acid, so I mixed up new acid, re-sanded the blade and re-etched. Just as before the etch was terrible. The really strange thing was that there are no flaws in the steel and while grinding and hand sanding the steel look clean as can be. There were no pits. Here is a picture of the pitting.
If you will notice in the bottom of the blade where the 1080 layers are thick there is a whole bunch of pitting. The 15n20 layers look great.
What's even more strange is that I put an edge on this blade and went out and chopped a 2x4 in half with no problem. There is just something in the steel not letting it etch clean.
I have yet to figure out why this 1080 did this but I knew one thing. This blade was NOT quality enough to sell.
The reason that I know it has to be the steel is because the next day I ordered new steel from my new supplier, made a new blade over the next few days and it looked fantastic.
So here is the deal, I hope you don't mind but I have just showed you what can go really wrong. My luck is that it happened to be on a WIP thread. But I decided to go ahead and show you. I am kind of nervous about putting it our here on forums for the whole world to see but it is what it is.
So now I am going to start over. The good thing about this is that I'm going to take this opportunity to make a different Damascus pattern that will look much nicer.
I am going to post pictures of the making of this new blade but I am going to do it very quickly with less shots until I get back to where I was. I don't want to bore you with the same process you just saw. I will explain the Damascus process a bit because I want you to see how the new Damascus pattern will be made.
Please stick with me on this. I apologize to those of you that are disappointed and I hope you don't lose interest but I can assure you that you are not more disappointed than I was.
I can assure you that the new pics will produce a very satisfying result. More pics soon.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 646
STARTING OVER!
Stacking up new bar. This time I am going to do a staggered stack that will create really organic looking W's that will be ladder patterned.
Welded up and ready.
As before I am going to to draw this out into a bar that will be ready to grind and chop.
Here is the bar ready to chop up and re-stack as before.
Notice when I re-stack that I do so with the layers changing direction. I want as much distortion as I can get. Those are some nice looking W's.
Welded and ready to draw out again. This time I am going to skip through the cut and re-stack which is just the same as before and get ready to ladder pattern the bar.
Those of you new to this thread if you want more detailed forging shots take a look at the early part of this thread. The only thing that I change with this new bar is the initial stack up. The rest is no different.
Stacking up new bar. This time I am going to do a staggered stack that will create really organic looking W's that will be ladder patterned.
Welded up and ready.
As before I am going to to draw this out into a bar that will be ready to grind and chop.
Here is the bar ready to chop up and re-stack as before.
Notice when I re-stack that I do so with the layers changing direction. I want as much distortion as I can get. Those are some nice looking W's.
Welded and ready to draw out again. This time I am going to skip through the cut and re-stack which is just the same as before and get ready to ladder pattern the bar.
Those of you new to this thread if you want more detailed forging shots take a look at the early part of this thread. The only thing that I change with this new bar is the initial stack up. The rest is no different.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 646
Once the bar has been drawn down to the right dimensions I ladder pattern it.
Just as before I grind those ladders off, roll the bar a little, forge the blade, and start to grind.
I am going to skip ahead now and show you the new blade in it's ground state and ready for heat treat.
Heat treating blade.
Another one just for Roger!
Now the new blade has been heat treated and finish ground. But before I etch the new blade I wanted to show something to you that you did not see before. I think what separates a lot of maker and how there Damascus looks is how well they finish there blade prior to etch. I always mirror polish my blades. Granted the mirror does not have to be as perfect as a stainless steel finished knife but I want it to be pretty damn good.
I thought I would show you some pics of the kind of mirror they get before I etch.
In a light box.
This is outside looking at the reflection of the mountains and beautiful Montana summer sky behind my shop in the blade.
My horse pasture in the blade.
This is the blade being lowered into the acid.
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
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- 646
Here's the new blade. I am quite pleased with the results.
So now I've caught us back up. I didn't want to waste your time but I did want to show you exactly what happened. Now it is time to fit a guard and start making a handle. Thanks for hanging in on this one.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 1999
- Messages
- 9,910
Josh, now I feel bad about my wise-crack about showing us some screw-ups. You apparently are human after all. That second blade is sure killer. I like this kind of thread, Its real.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2008
- Messages
- 3,223
Josh,
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this WIP.
I am curious as to what you do with a blade that doesn't turn out how you like. Do you just chuck them or keep it as a pattern?
Since the first blade was fine before etching will you sand off the etch and make a knife for yourself or family with it?
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this WIP.
I am curious as to what you do with a blade that doesn't turn out how you like. Do you just chuck them or keep it as a pattern?
Since the first blade was fine before etching will you sand off the etch and make a knife for yourself or family with it?
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
You read my mind. I was thinking that with a simple handle and guard, that would still make a way nicer than average using piece.
Roger
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 646
Thanks for the comments guys. Typically I don't have screw ups this far into a knife. Usually if its a problem with the steel you can see it coming or find it earlier. If it's some other kind of problem I can usually fix it.
With blades like this I typically just keep them around. I couldn't sell it knowing there is a problem. I've already fit a guard for it and it is going to get a micarta handle. I figure it can be a knife to "play" with at the hammer in. If a collector want to chop a rope or 2x4 I'll let them use this blade.
Don't feel bad Bruce. I expect my good friends to give me some grief! If I didn't get that I'd think they were mad at me.
With blades like this I typically just keep them around. I couldn't sell it knowing there is a problem. I've already fit a guard for it and it is going to get a micarta handle. I figure it can be a knife to "play" with at the hammer in. If a collector want to chop a rope or 2x4 I'll let them use this blade.
Don't feel bad Bruce. I expect my good friends to give me some grief! If I didn't get that I'd think they were mad at me.
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 382
This is a great WIP Josh. I appreciate the work that you are going to to do this. I also think it is great that your daughters can come to your work 
. I also appreciate the art work on the cabinet.
I have a few questions if you don't mind. It appears that you dry welded the second billet but not the first. Is there a reason?
How far apart are the peaks on your ladder dies.
After the initial welded billet and you turned the billet on its side, how many layers did you go.
Sorry for all the questions, but threads like these really get my mind going.
Thanks again
Brian
. I also appreciate the art work on the cabinet. I have a few questions if you don't mind. It appears that you dry welded the second billet but not the first. Is there a reason?
How far apart are the peaks on your ladder dies.
After the initial welded billet and you turned the billet on its side, how many layers did you go.
Sorry for all the questions, but threads like these really get my mind going.
Thanks again
Brian