Take-Downs, Make sense?

[Kevin Jones]

I have found myself liking the idea of take-down constructed knives very much lately.
A well executed take-down knife makes sense for a lot of good practicable reasons in my opinion and they are no doubt getting more popular.

• What are your opinions on take down construction?

• What are some positives and negatives as compaired to fixed-assembly knives? (would especially like to hear from makers)

• Also makers, do you offer or plan to offer take-down models in the future?

I have included a couple beautiful images of take-down Bowies here, though this method of construction is utilized on other type knives as well. By ALL means feel free to post additional examples.

As always, thank you in advance for your viewing, comments and participation.

 

[stabber]

Take-downs are cool. Amazing the Craftsmanship inside the handle and fittings!!:thumbup:

 

[NickWheeler]

Interesting question Kevin! I'm curious about it too.

Almost all of my knives are made as a takedown, yet I have glued up all but a few of them.

My worry has always been that someone will take one apart, and then lose a part or drop a part and bang it up to the point it won't go back together right. That may OR may not be a simple fix...

I think the only real advantage is that the knife can be disassembled by the maker and compensations can be made for the handle material moving.

Above EVERYTHING else, I feel the main attraction and advantage.... is COOL FACTOR.

It's cool for a maker to say he or she made a takedown, and it's cool for the collector to own one.

It does, at least intimate, a higher level of precision in construction.

I'm very curious how many folks actually take a knife apart once they have it???

Hopefully my post doesn't have a negative tone towards them, as there definitely IS cool factor in a takedown.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Really great points Nick.
There's certainly different degrees of "take-down" too. I like the "cool" factor, but it's more the practical purposes that appeal to me the most.

IMO, both maker and collector have certain responsibilities in a take-down knife project of knowing what's expected and what's delivered.
IMO, the maker should provide a knife equal in strength and durability to his fixed-assembly models (unless otherwise communicated) and the collector should realize it's not a toy to be disassembled & reassembled over and over again.

 

[Steinerj]

How about some pics of them taken down?:thumbup:

 

[RogerP]

I like them from the standpoint of the skill involved in insuring that all the parts can come apart and fit together again, but having owned a number of fixed blades with both take-down and glued-up handles, I really don't see much of a practical advantage to the former.

I suppose there COULD be. For example:

1) I remember a D. Lisch takedown piece with two very different guards - really changed the look of the knife comppletely. I thought that was exceptionally cool.

2) I suppose you could also have two very different handle materials supplied with the knife - say, wood and ivory - so you could dress it up / down as desired.

But you really don't see much of either. Nick makes a valid point, though, about facilitating repair / replacement of natural handle materials, if needed. And I guess it might make engraving the fittings easier for the engraver if they could be separated from the rest of the knife.

I like take-downs, I think they are pretty cool, but their appeal - at least for me - doesn't lie in any practical / functional benefit over a fixed assembly knife.

Roger

 

[RogerP]

I'm very curious how many folks actually take a knife apart once they have it???

I'd be curious, too. I suspect the answer is "very, very few".

Roger

 

[T.K.C.]

Karl B. Andersen makes some amazing take down knives!! I am a BIG fan of his work!!

 

[blad5]

I thinks Nick's thoughts echo my own. I think that it has been demonstrated that take-down construction does take a higher level of construction. By itself, then, a knife with such construction, deserves a higher selling price.

That said, I can see benefit in take-down construction on an actual using knife, e.g., a hunter. But building on Kevin's original post, other than the challenge it poses for the makers, are there real advantages to take-down construction for the beautiful knives we have seen posted, Kevin's examples being but two, to take-down construction on knives that will never be used? Nick has pointed out an area of significant risk. Are there advantages that outweigh this risk? Does take-down construction add aesthetic benefit?

I look forward to seeing makers' different opinions for offering take-down models.

Paul

 

[RogerP]

Really great points Nick.
There's certainly different degrees of "take-down" too. I like the "cool" factor, but it's more the practical purposes that appeal to me the most.

And those would be...?

Roger

 

[RogerP]

That said, I can see benefit in take-down construction on an actual using knife, e.g., a hunter.

What benefit would that be, Paul? I've heard it suggested that it makes cleaning easier, but that seems counter-intuitive to me. With the fixed handle piece that's good and slimy from use, you have one piece to clean. Breaking that knife down into several parts, cleaning / oiling and re-assembling those parts doesn't strike me as "easier" - and seems to invite more potential problems if you don't get everything cleaned / oiled properly before you put it back together again. And doing so in the field creates the risk of some small but important metal bit getting lost in the process - not good.

I think of two of the most widely successful hunter designs in the custom knife realm - the Loveless Drop Point and the Fisk Sendero. In what functional way would either knife be measurably improved by rendering it as a take-down?

Roger

 

[Kevin Jones]

I like them from the standpoint of the skill involved in insuring that all the parts can come apart and fit together again, but having owned a number of fixed blades with both take-down and glued-up handles, I really don't see much of a practical advantage to the former.

I suppose there COULD be. For example:

1) I remember a D. Lisch takedown piece with two very different guards - really changed the look of the knife comppletely. I thought that was exceptionally cool.

2) I suppose you could also have two very different handle materials supplied with the knife - say, wood and ivory - so you could dress it up / down as desired.

But you really don't see much of either. Nick makes a valid point, though, about facilitating repair / replacement of natural handle materials, if needed. And I guess it might make engraving the fittings easier for the engraver if they could be separated from the rest of the knife.
I like take-downs, I think they are pretty cool, but their appeal - at least for me - doesn't lie in any practical / functional benefit over a fixed assembly knife.

Roger

Aren't the above (bolded) substantial practical/functional benefits?

In addition, the non-permanent tang through and pummel nut construction can even allow for owner adjustment of certain handle material shrinkage.

How about allowing for the thorough "taking apart" cleaning of a hunter after skinning or field use?
How about if a knife is dropped and the guard is scarred, or a ferrule or spacer developed a little corrosion?

 

[Bruce Bump]

Here is a shot of mine before I peened the name plates on the blade. The handle scales are not removeable. I dont use pins but instead try to hand file the frame and slots in the guard, collar and spacer so it doesnt have slack. I tried to make the parts so symetrical that they could be installed in either direction but finally just put an index mark so they can be put together the same each time.

I like mechanical things after repairing Japanese motorcycles for 30 years. Guns are take downs, everything comes apart. My vacuum cleaner is a take down model.

 

[RogerP]

Aren't the above (bolded) substantial practical/functional benefits?

Well, one is - as I indicated - replacing repairing handle material. To measure whether it is a "substantial" benefit, we perhaps should ask how many owners of take-down knives have had handle material repaired / replaced and how often. I suspect the asnwer is "very few and not very often, if ever at all". If I am correct, it's not a substantial practical benefit, IMHO - more a theoretical / conceptual benefit.

How about allowing for the thorough "taking apart" cleaning of a hunter after skinning or field use?

As noted above, I don't see this as a benefit. Indeed, I see it as more of a potential problem. If you had a take-down and fixed handle Sendero and got them both good and bloody, how exactly is your cleaning of the take-down going to be "more thorough"? And are you going to be able to keep hold of all those itty bitty parts in a field environment - cold / rain / snow?

How about if a knife is dropped and the guard is scarred, or a ferrule or spacer developed a little corrosion?

I suppose replacing / repairing these parts would be made easier. As would refinishing the blade itself, if it came to that. Not a prevalent problem for fancy safe-queens, I wouldn't think.

Roger

 

[RogerP]

I'd beinterested to know this from makers:

Is a take down knife as impervious to moisture intrusion as, say a hidden tang knife with a soldered guard and epoxied handle?

Roger

 

[Bruce Bump]

I'd beinterested to know this from makers:

Is a take down knife as impervious to moisture intrusion as, say a hidden tang knife with a soldered guard and epoxied handle?

Roger

I believe the take down can be serviced and oiled internally. A fixed blade can allow moisture in and trap it to cause trouble years later.

 

[RogerP]

I believe the take down can be serviced and oiled internally. A fixed blade can allow moisture in and trap it to cause trouble years later.

Yes I appreciate that the take down can be cleaned / oiled internally - but assuming both are qually well made - is moisture going to have a harder time getting past the soldered guard / expoxied handle than the take down? Assuming a very clean solder and a tang cavity rammed full of epoxy?

Roger

 

[Lorien]

I wonder if the relative recent popularity of take-down folders is increasing the interest in take-down straight knives? Remember the days of pinned folders?

Personally, I am totally uninterested in the concept for straight knives, partially due to some of the points Nick pointed out. While I probably wouldn't pass on a knife simply because it was made to be taken apart, I certainly wouldn't seek one out for that feature.

The upshot of take-down construction is that a maker can show their skills, both outside and inside the knife, and that a collector can be assured of the knife's construction.

Anyway, that's my take

 

[Kevin Jones]

Well, one is - as I indicated - replacing repairing handle material. To measure whether it is a "substantial" benefit, we perhaps should ask how many owners of take-down knives have had handle material repaired / replaced and how often. I suspect the asnwer is "very few and not very often, if ever at all". If I am correct, it's not a substantial practical benefit, IMHO - more a theoretical / conceptual benefit.


As noted above, I don't see this as a benefit. Indeed, I see it as more of a potential problem. If you had a take-down and fixed handle Sendero and got them both good and bloody, how exactly is your cleaning of the take-down going to be "more thorough"? And are you going to be able to keep hold of all those itty bitty parts in a field environment - cold / rain / snow?

Roger, have you done much skinning? Especially larger game? And I doubt if anyone would try to take down a knife around the campfire for cleaning. Most likely done after the hunting trip.

I agree that considering the precise handle/guard/blade fit-up on a Fisk Sendero, there wouldn't be much of an advantage, however I have skinned with outer hunters where dis-assembling for cleaning would have been quite an advantage.

I suppose replacing / repairing these parts would be made easier. As would refinishing the blade itself, if it came to that. Not a prevalent problem for fancy safe-queens, I wouldn't think.

Just has to happen to you once.
I was cleaning an expensive bowie and while holding it up to the sunlight (next to a fireplace) I dropped it (was holding it by the handle in a rag ) and of course it hit the stone hearth rather than the wood floor. At least it didn't go through my leg.
It would have been much less traumatic if we could have just replaced the guard rather than grinding/re-shaping/sanding it on the bowie.

Roger

Now, I didn't say I was only collecting take-downs from now on. Just that I was starting to like them and see both "cool" and "practical" benefits.

Bruce, thanks for the "take-down" shot. I would like to see others. Love to see them where the knives are as clean on the inside as the outside.

I'm going to add the dagger to this thread assembled as well, if you don't mind.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I wonder if the relative recent popularity of take-down folders is increasing the interest in take-down straight knives? Remember the days of pinned folders?

Personally, I am totally uninterested in the concept for straight knives, partially due to some of the points Nick pointed out. While I probably wouldn't pass on a knife simply because it was made to be taken apart, I certainly wouldn't seek one out for that feature.

The upshot of take-down construction is that a maker can show their skills, both outside and inside the knife, and that a collector can be assured of the knife's construction.

Anyway, that's my take

That's a GREAT point. Any opportunity where a maker came strut his/her stuff in a good thing.