Talk me out of it... .32 Tomcat

STAGE 2 said:
With all due respect, this is complete poppycock. Graveyards are full of people who were planted by these two calibers. Americans have a fascination with larger calibers, and thats great because they get the job done. However that doesn't mean that lesser calibers are useless.

On average a .32 HP will penetration 10-11 inches. .32 ball will penetrate 14-15 inches. Thats hardly the same as a 2" knife.

All handguns are anemic where firearms are concerned. In that respect, its the indian and not the arrow. If you do your part, then the round will do its.
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Some good info :thumbup:
 
Samael said:
I've spent a lot more time than most of you guys have even been alive paying attention to these issues. As a result of all that, I've come to a few conclusions. One of them is that there's a reason why just about every law enforcement agency in America fell In love with the nine, and then quickly fell out of love with it.
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If you've been around as much as you say you have, then you will know that what firearm a law enforcement agency is using has everything to do with budgets and little to do with actual performance.

That, and while the .40 seems to be the flavor of the minute (though I think its on its way out) the 9 hasn't remotely been replaced. Its still in use with plenty of agencies either as primary issue or as approved carry.
 
STAGE 2 said:
If you've been around as much as you say you have, then you will know that what firearm a law enforcement agency is using has everything to do with budgets and little to do with actual performance.

That, and while the .40 seems to be the flavor of the minute (though I think its on its way out) the 9 hasn't remotely been replaced. Its still in use with plenty of agencies either as primary issue or as approved carry.
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and the US military. (even though i am a big fan of the .45 well proven cartridge)
 
Samael said:
I've spent a lot more time than most of you guys have even been alive paying attention to these issues. As a result of all that, I've come to a few conclusions. One of them is that there's a reason why just about every law enforcement agency in America fell In love with the nine, and then quickly fell out of love with it.
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Do tell.
 
Well, a lot if it had to do with the infamous FBI shoot-out in Miami (I guess it's been kind of a long time ago now). The BGs soaked up an astonishing number of 9 mm rounds and kept right on shooting back.

Sure, there are still departments that still use nines, just as there were departments that still used .38s for years and years after they had outlived their usefulness. Money is a perpetual issue in police departments, and it's not just money for the guns, either. It's also things like money for training, money for ammo, and the list goes on and on.

There are a lot of complicated and inter-related issues whenever you talk about cops and guns. That the 9 mm, particularly in hardball, is sort of a failure as a police round was only one of them.
 
Be a real man. Get one of these:
S_W686.03.jpg

Not the best for concealed carry though. :D
 
No, no, no. You are looking at the problem from the wrong perspective.

YOU don't carry the gun. Let the gun carry YOU! :D

M48A3.jpg
 
Samael said:
Well, a lot if it had to do with the infamous FBI shoot-out in Miami (I guess it's been kind of a long time ago now). The BGs soaked up an astonishing number of 9 mm rounds and kept right on shooting back.

Sure, there are still departments that still use nines, just as there were departments that still used .38s for years and years after they had outlived their usefulness. Money is a perpetual issue in police departments, and it's not just money for the guns, either. It's also things like money for training, money for ammo, and the list goes on and on.

There are a lot of complicated and inter-related issues whenever you talk about cops and guns. That the 9 mm, particularly in hardball, is sort of a failure as a police round was only one of them.
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While that may be a reason for many departments dropping 9mm, it doesn't have much bearing on performance today. New bullet designs have closed the gap considerably.
 
TexAg10 said:
While that may be a reason for many departments dropping 9mm, it doesn't have much bearing on performance today. New bullet designs have closed the gap considerably.
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You beat me to it...advances in modern bullet design have eliminated the majority of concerns regarding the 9mm. If the shooter does their part, the 9mm is very effective.
 
Samael said:
OK, I'm drunk, and tired, and ready for bed, and I've been intentionally ignoring this thread because there are way too many self-professed experts here, but I have to comment on a couple of things.

"The 9 mm 'blows away' 38 Specials." Well. Some nines blow away some 38s. This is way too complicated a topic to make sweeping generalizations like that. While the statement isn't false on its face, I could just as easily find some 38s that blow away some 9s.

I've spent a lot more time than most of you guys have even been alive paying attention to these issues. As a result of all that, I've come to a few conclusions. One of them is that there's a reason why just about every law enforcement agency in America fell In love with the nine, and then quickly fell out of love with it.

Hey, a 9 is beats the hell out of praying every day of the week. So does a 38. So does a .380. Not so sure about a .32, though.
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ok, i'll bite, what .38 special loading will out do a 9MM ballistically?

in todays world, a 9MM really is more comparable to a .357 mag than a .38 special, probably due to liability concerns about older pistols, maybe, they just dont load the old special round to as high a pressure as the (old) 9MM round, for whatever reason.

but a +P+ 9MM 127gr ranger compares fairly well with a 125gr magnum round outta a 4" or less bbl, now 6" or up different story, not many folks edc a 686 with a 6" bbl though, none i know of lol.

though .40 is probably the king in the LEO community right now some agencies still use the 9MM and while at the time of the miami shootout, in '84 IIRC, none of the HP ammo worked well, 9MM, .45, whatever, none of it worked well, been a lotta water under the bridge since, and the ammo produced today, circa '10, like ranger, speer gold dot, remington golden sabre, etc, it does work, so imho comparing ammo from '84 to ammo from '10 is apples/peach trees, not the same game, not even the same sport, totally different.

also, imho, if .380 beats praying .32 does too, aint as lotta diff between the 2 imho................
 
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Late to this party (hopefully OP hasn't bought one) but I'll try: I rented one the year they first came out. Out of 50 rounds I got 1-2 stoppages every magazine. Some of these were stovepipes, and I didn't think the Beretta slide COULD stovepipe. Accuracy was only so-so. I later read that these were designed for a service life of about 750-1000 rounds total.

Most craptacular Beretta I've ever laid hands on.
 
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