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Talonite Good, Bad or Ugly?
- Thread starter copfish
- Start date
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- 3,221
Cliff, I'm through dealing with you. Obviously, not matter what I say, you will continue to claim to be some sort of knife-testing god who is not bound by the laws of physics or biology. I can consistently drive my car, that doesn't mean I can achieve random esting of cars by hand, it means I specifically cannot. You can live in your little dream world, where you are actually a scientist, and all others should bow down before you.
Okay, one last thing, as I said, that apparatus is only one of many that would be necessary to test knives, and would cost several thousand dollars if built correctly, do I truly doubt you tried what I'm proposing. Also, if you re-read my post, maybe you will notice the provisions made for allowing strength and toughness to come into play.
Will, until I get some major money laying around, I really have no intention of going ahead with that test (especially since I would not really be interested in doing just one test, and would want to build the rest of the equipment in order to do a complete test of many different types of cutting). Right now I'm completely bogged-down, but maybe sometime I'll start up a knife-testing firm, if I can raise enough capital.
What I've been saying is that, while these tests are valid tests, but are not science. Science doesn't mean that something is complicated, it means that it is objective. Cliff's tests are valuable as real-world testing, but his need to claim to be better than other real-world tester by pretending to be testing these knives scientifically is that truly offends me about him. If he just came along and said he was a guy who likes knives, who decided to arrange some tests, we would not be having this conversation, but he wants to displace other real-world testers and put himself up on a pedestal by claiming that his tests are better than those being done by the others. Again, science (done right) isn't complicated, it is as simple as it possibly can be.
This thread is getting unweildy (we're over 300 posts), so this will be my last post here. If anyone wants to continue this via email, or start a new thread along the lines of the current discussion, I'll be more than happy to continue this, but a thread this long, which has strayed so far from its original intent, is just too cumbersome.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
Okay, one last thing, as I said, that apparatus is only one of many that would be necessary to test knives, and would cost several thousand dollars if built correctly, do I truly doubt you tried what I'm proposing. Also, if you re-read my post, maybe you will notice the provisions made for allowing strength and toughness to come into play.
Will, until I get some major money laying around, I really have no intention of going ahead with that test (especially since I would not really be interested in doing just one test, and would want to build the rest of the equipment in order to do a complete test of many different types of cutting). Right now I'm completely bogged-down, but maybe sometime I'll start up a knife-testing firm, if I can raise enough capital.
What I've been saying is that, while these tests are valid tests, but are not science. Science doesn't mean that something is complicated, it means that it is objective. Cliff's tests are valuable as real-world testing, but his need to claim to be better than other real-world tester by pretending to be testing these knives scientifically is that truly offends me about him. If he just came along and said he was a guy who likes knives, who decided to arrange some tests, we would not be having this conversation, but he wants to displace other real-world testers and put himself up on a pedestal by claiming that his tests are better than those being done by the others. Again, science (done right) isn't complicated, it is as simple as it possibly can be.
This thread is getting unweildy (we're over 300 posts), so this will be my last post here. If anyone wants to continue this via email, or start a new thread along the lines of the current discussion, I'll be more than happy to continue this, but a thread this long, which has strayed so far from its original intent, is just too cumbersome.
--JB
------------------
e_utopia@hotmail.com
- Joined
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- 8,888
JB--
I'm glad we can finally agree that Cliff's tests are valid.
As to science and objectivity, I've never heard Cliff say his methods were perfect. They ARE the best methods he's been able to devise to date, to test what he means to test, but he's always revising and improving his testing methods--a commitment I appreciate. What he has challenged in others is the same shortfall of information, about accurately measured variables, as I find disconcerting from typical "field experience" anecdotes. These are the very kinds of variables that, when left unmeasured, are an impediment to objective evaluation.
So I salute you also on your second point. Careful methods designed to advance objective analysis are crucial to good testing--and science. And I salute Cliff for having devised the best methods I have seen employed to date in that quest. I'm sure he would agree that careful and thoughtful test design is a never-ending challenge--and one he is always striving to answer in more objective ways.
--Will
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- 17,562
E_utopia :
One of the undergrad labs was outfitted a few years ago replacing most of the equipment with sensors that are connected to Mac's. It cost far more than a few thousand dollars but they can measure just about anything and do it much faster than by hand. Most students have responded to it quite well as it takes a lot of the grunt work out of data collecting. I have at times played off on with it using the sensors to measure the force I was exerting, velocity of the cuts etc. .
You could also run it off of Ti calculators instead of Macs and the sensors are not that expensive. In the long run this is something that I might do. However it is not that high on my list of things to do. I think Steve Harvey said it clearest (paraphrase) - if the difference in performance is that small that you need very precise controlled testing in order to see it - it is of limited value anyway.
While in many industries even small differences can be very significant, 5% wear in a part that is $25 K can cause you to consider a materials change. However if you knew that steel X would give you 5% better edge holding that steel Z, of how much importance does this make to you? Instead of sharpening once a week, you sharpen a few hours before on day 6.
In order to simulate how people cut you would need a way to reproduce the twisting and binding that people use as well as the stop gap measure that people cut with. This is why edges rarely blunt by wear unless you are dealing with someone of extreme skill, they suffer failure by fracture usually either due to repeated bending or not having the necesary toughness and break apart suddenly. In short you would need to replicate a human hand - or you could just use one.
Will :
Being open about what you do is key, which is why I don't look at what I do as something I have done but just as a piece of work. I don't have any emotional attachment to it. If someone has a way that is directly better then that is they way it will be done next time, which would be obvious to someone who has read the reviews and the discussions about them as it happens on a regular basis.
People suggest things like this all the time. This is why the reviews never look that similar to one another. I have exchanged a few emails with a member the last few days about the fabric cutting and have a couple of new ideas about how to go about it and get a decent estimate of the amount of force. This will help a lot in the multivariable analysis.
As for the force consistency, anyone who does any kind of physical activity will tell you that you can reproduce effort to very precise standard. In weightlifting the Soviets (or Bulgarians I can't remember) studied this in detail and found that the limit was about .5%. They use this in their training programs. I have looked at this a couple of times since it was mentioned to be by a friend a few years ago (http://www.stas.net/weightrainer/main.html). For example in duplicating 20 lbs of force (three finger pressdown) on a scale I did two runs (having someone else record the numbers I could not see them) : 19.75, 20.5, 22.0, 20.5. Second run : 19, 19.5, 20.5, 22. In order for me to "set" this level of force I had to do two test runs where I could see the force and one run of four altering the force to get a stable result as the weight was called out.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 08-06-2000).]
One of the undergrad labs was outfitted a few years ago replacing most of the equipment with sensors that are connected to Mac's. It cost far more than a few thousand dollars but they can measure just about anything and do it much faster than by hand. Most students have responded to it quite well as it takes a lot of the grunt work out of data collecting. I have at times played off on with it using the sensors to measure the force I was exerting, velocity of the cuts etc. .
You could also run it off of Ti calculators instead of Macs and the sensors are not that expensive. In the long run this is something that I might do. However it is not that high on my list of things to do. I think Steve Harvey said it clearest (paraphrase) - if the difference in performance is that small that you need very precise controlled testing in order to see it - it is of limited value anyway.
While in many industries even small differences can be very significant, 5% wear in a part that is $25 K can cause you to consider a materials change. However if you knew that steel X would give you 5% better edge holding that steel Z, of how much importance does this make to you? Instead of sharpening once a week, you sharpen a few hours before on day 6.
In order to simulate how people cut you would need a way to reproduce the twisting and binding that people use as well as the stop gap measure that people cut with. This is why edges rarely blunt by wear unless you are dealing with someone of extreme skill, they suffer failure by fracture usually either due to repeated bending or not having the necesary toughness and break apart suddenly. In short you would need to replicate a human hand - or you could just use one.
Will :
Being open about what you do is key, which is why I don't look at what I do as something I have done but just as a piece of work. I don't have any emotional attachment to it. If someone has a way that is directly better then that is they way it will be done next time, which would be obvious to someone who has read the reviews and the discussions about them as it happens on a regular basis.
People suggest things like this all the time. This is why the reviews never look that similar to one another. I have exchanged a few emails with a member the last few days about the fabric cutting and have a couple of new ideas about how to go about it and get a decent estimate of the amount of force. This will help a lot in the multivariable analysis.
As for the force consistency, anyone who does any kind of physical activity will tell you that you can reproduce effort to very precise standard. In weightlifting the Soviets (or Bulgarians I can't remember) studied this in detail and found that the limit was about .5%. They use this in their training programs. I have looked at this a couple of times since it was mentioned to be by a friend a few years ago (http://www.stas.net/weightrainer/main.html). For example in duplicating 20 lbs of force (three finger pressdown) on a scale I did two runs (having someone else record the numbers I could not see them) : 19.75, 20.5, 22.0, 20.5. Second run : 19, 19.5, 20.5, 22. In order for me to "set" this level of force I had to do two test runs where I could see the force and one run of four altering the force to get a stable result as the weight was called out.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 08-06-2000).]
- Joined
- Feb 12, 1999
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- 692
dogboye
Gold Member
- Joined
- Nov 23, 1999
- Messages
- 7,147
Allllllllll righty-then!!!
I wanna talk now. I finally had a chance to actually use my Talon for something more than cutting limes this weekend, and I have to say that now, so far, I'm a convert!!!!!
I actually started a new thread with it, since this one has gotten so long. Although, 300+ posts are pretty impressive! Although, I started zoning out in the last few, when I started trying to remember/understand statistics. Whew!
Bottom line, though, is I was pleasantly surprised. For me, I'm satisfied that Talonite is a GREAT blade material, and I'm now a Talonite-a-holic, I do believe.
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iktomi
I actually started a new thread with it, since this one has gotten so long. Although, 300+ posts are pretty impressive! Although, I started zoning out in the last few, when I started trying to remember/understand statistics. Whew!
Bottom line, though, is I was pleasantly surprised. For me, I'm satisfied that Talonite is a GREAT blade material, and I'm now a Talonite-a-holic, I do believe.
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iktomi
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2000
- Messages
- 3,794
Hi Spyder,
Thanks for your testing & posting the results here
However,
seems like that the identical knives made out of Talonite & M2 would have the very unidentical price tags.
For example at KnifeOutlet:
Camillus Talon, 4 inch blade, G10 handles, Talonite - $239.95;
Benchmade 140HSSR Nimravus - 4.5 inch blade, G10 Handles, M2 Blade 109.95;
Now, I guess it depends a lot on the environment, but still, I don't know if the "rust proofness" would worth twice as much to me?
After all, is stainlessness the only advantage of talonite over D2, M2? What about the CPM 420V for example?
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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
[This message has been edited by Gator97 (edited 08-07-2000).]
Thanks for your testing & posting the results here
Well, to be honest I am surprised. I've had an impression (like you) that it'd loose razor edge very fast. It's bad that you've ran out of cardboard though
seems like that the identical knives made out of Talonite & M2 would have the very unidentical price tags.
For example at KnifeOutlet:
Camillus Talon, 4 inch blade, G10 handles, Talonite - $239.95;
Benchmade 140HSSR Nimravus - 4.5 inch blade, G10 Handles, M2 Blade 109.95;
Now, I guess it depends a lot on the environment, but still, I don't know if the "rust proofness" would worth twice as much to me?
After all, is stainlessness the only advantage of talonite over D2, M2? What about the CPM 420V for example?
------------------
zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
[This message has been edited by Gator97 (edited 08-07-2000).]
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1998
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- 1,597
Gator97,
To answer your pricing question, .....
I'm not sure of the price of M2 off the top of my head, but usually carbon tool steels are somewhat under $10 per pound[usually MUCH under]. For a comparision, ATS-34 is usually just under $10 per pound, depending on the quanity you buy.
TALONITE is roughly $170 per pound depending on the size of the billet of material you order. TALONITE also takes us roughly 4-5 times as long to grind.
Now, before we pass judgement, lets see how long the TALON Rockspyder has cuts, and very important to some, how easily it re-sharpens.
Rockspyder, glad to have you as a customer
------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
To answer your pricing question, .....
I'm not sure of the price of M2 off the top of my head, but usually carbon tool steels are somewhat under $10 per pound[usually MUCH under]. For a comparision, ATS-34 is usually just under $10 per pound, depending on the quanity you buy.
TALONITE is roughly $170 per pound depending on the size of the billet of material you order. TALONITE also takes us roughly 4-5 times as long to grind.
Now, before we pass judgement, lets see how long the TALON Rockspyder has cuts, and very important to some, how easily it re-sharpens.
Rockspyder, glad to have you as a customer
------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
www.camillusknives.com
dogboye
Gold Member
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- Nov 23, 1999
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- 7,147
Hmmmm.. well, let me see if I can take a stab at some of that.First, I don't know about 420V. I'm a little leary, because everthing I see has it only about a point or two Rc above 440V, which I'm plain disappointed in at the Rc's it's commonly hardened to (well, unless custom, and I'm still considering it in that venue; but then you're back up into the over-$200 bracket). The M2 is hardened up to anywhere between 60 and 65 Rc, depending on where you look. Meanwhile, the Talonite is down around, what, 49 Rc. Yet it holds its edge as good as the M2, to the limits of my testing. That, to me, is just downright strange. But, also a little digression from your concerns. Additionally, to be perfectly honest, I have a particular fondness for the Cetan design, plain and simple. I have been on a waiting list for nearly a year now for one of Rob's knives. Meanwhile, this Talon makes my second Cetan pattern, and I'm still not sated. So, I admit a little additional cost justification there. The Cub will continue to be my hard-use knife, due to its edge-holding, and partly because of the cost, but also because it does hold its edge extremely well. The Military is my hard-use folder, for the very reason that I have been SO disappointed in its edge-holding that I don't worry about beating it around. And at least it sharpens rather easily, which I have to do fairly often. But, the Talon... well, I don't have to worry about scratching a coating; I don't have to worry about keeping it oiled because I removed the coating; I can go kayaking or swimming with it in the brackish water around here and not worry about it afterward. I don't think you can go swimming in salty water with even 420V and not have to at least rinse it off afterward. So, to me, the Talon is worth the extra cost over M2. Also, I don't know how much more a 420V Cub would be than an M2 Cub; I'm guessing it would probably split the difference between the M2 Cub and the Talon. Yet it will still corrode. So, that probably doesn't answer your specific questions. But, hopefully, it will give you a little more to mull over?
Oh yeah, and Will... glad to be a customer. EXCELLENT job on the Talon. I LIKE it. Oh, and Tom, nothing against Cliff, but I'm satisfied with the Talonite based on my experience so far, and that's what matters to me.
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iktomi
[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 08-08-2000).]
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Hi Will,
.
I tried to compare M2 & talonite based on spyder's info.
Personally to me stainlessness is less important then the edge holding ability. Was just thinking what the advantages are & at what price.
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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
I was not questioning the price of the Talon & I am well aware of high prices on the Tallonite (I have a talonite custom blade pending
I tried to compare M2 & talonite based on spyder's info.
Personally to me stainlessness is less important then the edge holding ability. Was just thinking what the advantages are & at what price.
------------------
zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
dogboye
Gold Member
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- 7,147
Gator, some more insight into my personal logic. I have two customs that I have been waiting for a long time. So long, in fact, that I still have the luxury of trying to decide exactly what material to get them made from. Part of the reason that I bought the Talon was it allowed me to try out Talonite, in the style of the customs that I have ordered, for less than the customs are going to cost. That way, if I didn't like Talonite, I can save a few bucks, and also not blow my spot on the maker's list getting a knife that I would like better in another material. So, I bought the Talon. Now that I have seen how the Talonite cuts and holds its edge, AND the fact that it doesn't corrode, I tend to believe that it is a GREAT blade material, especially for a nice custom that you want to remain in good shape.
I am sure there ARE better blade materials for certain applications. One thing I was thinking this morning, I'm not sure that I would want Talonite in a big knife that I might rely on for prying. Forgetting the price for a moment, I think the Talonite seems to be a little more flexible than a steel knife of the same thickness. I THINK. I seem to be able to flex the Talon the tiniest bit with just my hands, and I can't really discern whether that is a property of the Talonite, or a characteristic of the design of this particular knife. Because it does have a nice distal taper.
Does any of all that make sense. Big thing is, IMO, for me, Talonite... um, to borrow a phrase... RULZ!
It may very well be that as I get more time on the knife, I will change my mind. But, at this point, I really doubt that. Oh, and one final note that I haven't said yet...... I went into the cardboard test almost HOPING that the Talonite would disappoint me, because of the higher cost. Um... well... what can I say... that didn't happen.
::walks away mumbling to self::
------------------
iktomi
I am sure there ARE better blade materials for certain applications. One thing I was thinking this morning, I'm not sure that I would want Talonite in a big knife that I might rely on for prying. Forgetting the price for a moment, I think the Talonite seems to be a little more flexible than a steel knife of the same thickness. I THINK. I seem to be able to flex the Talon the tiniest bit with just my hands, and I can't really discern whether that is a property of the Talonite, or a characteristic of the design of this particular knife. Because it does have a nice distal taper.
Does any of all that make sense. Big thing is, IMO, for me, Talonite... um, to borrow a phrase... RULZ!
It may very well be that as I get more time on the knife, I will change my mind. But, at this point, I really doubt that. Oh, and one final note that I haven't said yet...... I went into the cardboard test almost HOPING that the Talonite would disappoint me, because of the higher cost. Um... well... what can I say... that didn't happen.
------------------
iktomi
well...i guess the bottom line is..you get what you pay for...I've always wanted to buy the best...and when I couldnt afford it and got something else....I was never satisfied until I sold the first piece of junk, saved my money...and got what I should have in the first place. Money and time are two commoditites that should be used wisely, but dont fool yourself....you cant buy back one second....you can get more money.
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http://www.mayoknives.com
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http://www.mayoknives.com
The Magician
Illusionist
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2000
- Messages
- 1,580
I know nothing about Talonite. I just wanted to get my name on this monster thread!
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http://b.teel.tripod.com/paranormal/id1.html
AKTI# A000991
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http://b.teel.tripod.com/paranormal/id1.html
AKTI# A000991
This is all my fault and I am sorry.
We were very happily working with carbide saw tips when someone told us that a Co/Cr etc. alloy worked better than carbide saw tips. We knew it was impossible and proved it scientifically several ways. However the guys in the sawmills didn't know it and the Co/Cr tipped saws kept running better than carbide or any steel. They did really well in high acid, high corrosive applications and they were clearly superior to steel or carbide cutting rocks, nails, barbed wire and anything else that ends up in a log. This may or may not be true but the users thought so. We went looking for a competing supplier to "S" and we found one. They mentioned that they had a special version of the alloy that made great knives. I went online and asked if anybody cared. Out of the wide variety of responses Rob answered. He took it and made it work. Guys like Bald 1 and Walt Welch tried it and liked it.
Now none of this makes perfect sense scientifically. We do business as NW Research Institute, Inc. and we use science and we work hard to use it well. However we make money as Carbide Processors doing new things. Often things that are impossible.
Talonite® works better than it should. Cliff Stamp works really hard at this and he is right in his methodology. However the part that is missing is that sometimes new things work better than you had any reason to hope that they would. As near as I can tell, and the definitions I use for a lot of his terms are different than his (not right or wrong, dammit, just different) Cliff does pretty near everything right in his testing. What he is missing is the thing that neither he nor I can describe. When the tests predict results and the results you get are different from the predictions then something is wrong with the tests. I sincerely hope that Cliff is going to figure out why Talonite works so much better than it should. He has the background and he sure works hard enough at it.
In the meantime I am also guilty of the "hype". I don't see it as "hype". I thought Talonite® was pretty cool so I gave some away. Then I corrupted that nice young Simonich boy from Montana. He thought it was pretty cool so he gave some away also which was more "hype". We were really slick about it (Heck yes, me and Rob can be slick). We gave knifemakers a bar of alloy and we gave knife users a finished knife and said, "Try it and tell us what you think". Then we let them go online and say exactly what they thought. (O.K. for me and Rob that is as close as we can come to "slick") In all honesty I did hype it by the dictionary definition that says, "promote" it. I gave a lot of it away. I ran contests and gave knives away. (We have a great contest coming up on Bladeforums shortly, again, also.) Maybe the promoting it and giving it away was / is hype. However all we ever said was "We like this, do you want to try it." We answered all the questions the best we could but we never claimed to be perfect or omniscient. A lot of really smart, sophisticated knife people like the alloy. Some do not and we can live with that. Talonite® is an alloy that many people like. That is more than enough for us.
I do have a financial stake in Talonite®. In a month were Rob sells enough and I don't give away to many knives I even make a little money.
I 've got a group of guys I go camping with. That's all we do once a year. Sit, cook, eat, drink little whisky and tell the same stories every year. We all have more gear every year and we let each other try it. That is the same way I approached the Talonite®. Here, try it.
I guess maybe I should be mad at Cliff Stamp according to one kind of interpretation but it looks to me like he has Talonite® stuck sideways in his craw because he can't figure it out and he will keep working at it until it makes sense. (Which is the way most great, new science gets done.) I predict that some day Cliff Stamp will be able to say that Talonite® works differently than it should and then give a good answer. In the meantime I am offering buttons that say:
Talonite®
Yes, dammit,
I know it's impossible.
Tom
We were very happily working with carbide saw tips when someone told us that a Co/Cr etc. alloy worked better than carbide saw tips. We knew it was impossible and proved it scientifically several ways. However the guys in the sawmills didn't know it and the Co/Cr tipped saws kept running better than carbide or any steel. They did really well in high acid, high corrosive applications and they were clearly superior to steel or carbide cutting rocks, nails, barbed wire and anything else that ends up in a log. This may or may not be true but the users thought so. We went looking for a competing supplier to "S" and we found one. They mentioned that they had a special version of the alloy that made great knives. I went online and asked if anybody cared. Out of the wide variety of responses Rob answered. He took it and made it work. Guys like Bald 1 and Walt Welch tried it and liked it.
Now none of this makes perfect sense scientifically. We do business as NW Research Institute, Inc. and we use science and we work hard to use it well. However we make money as Carbide Processors doing new things. Often things that are impossible.
Talonite® works better than it should. Cliff Stamp works really hard at this and he is right in his methodology. However the part that is missing is that sometimes new things work better than you had any reason to hope that they would. As near as I can tell, and the definitions I use for a lot of his terms are different than his (not right or wrong, dammit, just different) Cliff does pretty near everything right in his testing. What he is missing is the thing that neither he nor I can describe. When the tests predict results and the results you get are different from the predictions then something is wrong with the tests. I sincerely hope that Cliff is going to figure out why Talonite works so much better than it should. He has the background and he sure works hard enough at it.
In the meantime I am also guilty of the "hype". I don't see it as "hype". I thought Talonite® was pretty cool so I gave some away. Then I corrupted that nice young Simonich boy from Montana. He thought it was pretty cool so he gave some away also which was more "hype". We were really slick about it (Heck yes, me and Rob can be slick). We gave knifemakers a bar of alloy and we gave knife users a finished knife and said, "Try it and tell us what you think". Then we let them go online and say exactly what they thought. (O.K. for me and Rob that is as close as we can come to "slick") In all honesty I did hype it by the dictionary definition that says, "promote" it. I gave a lot of it away. I ran contests and gave knives away. (We have a great contest coming up on Bladeforums shortly, again, also.) Maybe the promoting it and giving it away was / is hype. However all we ever said was "We like this, do you want to try it." We answered all the questions the best we could but we never claimed to be perfect or omniscient. A lot of really smart, sophisticated knife people like the alloy. Some do not and we can live with that. Talonite® is an alloy that many people like. That is more than enough for us.
I do have a financial stake in Talonite®. In a month were Rob sells enough and I don't give away to many knives I even make a little money.
I 've got a group of guys I go camping with. That's all we do once a year. Sit, cook, eat, drink little whisky and tell the same stories every year. We all have more gear every year and we let each other try it. That is the same way I approached the Talonite®. Here, try it.
I guess maybe I should be mad at Cliff Stamp according to one kind of interpretation but it looks to me like he has Talonite® stuck sideways in his craw because he can't figure it out and he will keep working at it until it makes sense. (Which is the way most great, new science gets done.) I predict that some day Cliff Stamp will be able to say that Talonite® works differently than it should and then give a good answer. In the meantime I am offering buttons that say:
Talonite®
Yes, dammit,
I know it's impossible.
Tom
this thread is a lot like the cartoon movie I watched with my grandson last nite..."To infinity.....and beyond!!!" (Buzz Lightyear)
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http://www.mayoknives.com
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http://www.mayoknives.com
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Whew! What a thread. I've trudged through some of it but not all. I have a question, and excuse me if it's already been answered somehwere in the 300+ responses. The talonite rep seems to be: loses its razor-edge quickly, but keeps a mediocre edge forever. My question is, does anyone have any theory as to the physical mechanism that causes this behavior? Please don't take this as a loaded question or a question with an agenda behind it, because it's not. I'm just curious as to any possible explanations for the above often-cited behavior. I have one, but I'd like to hear what others think.
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- Aug 11, 1999
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Hey Copfish,
... And, according to most physicists, curveballs are merely optical illusions.
(Tell that to Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey Jr, etc., etc ...!)
Glen
... And, according to most physicists, curveballs are merely optical illusions.
(Tell that to Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, Ken Griffey Jr, etc., etc ...!)
Glen
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