Talonite Good, Bad or Ugly?

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{bold emphasis mine}
Originally posted by tom mayo:
well all my testers got my 440V knives to go thru 3 to 4 (thats 3 to 4) times as many animals more than the D2 knives I've made for them <u>(all knives heat treated by Paul Bos)</u>...so thats where I get my comparison. ALSO- When Knives Illustrated did the original articles on 440V a few years back (both by Phil Wilson) their chart in the first article listed number of animals field dressed by steel type and 440V was DOUBLE the number of D2.
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Tom, I think the phrases quoted above are the key to this particular little discussion. The only 440V that I have any experience with is that of my Military and my Native. Both are tempered to Rc 55-57, which I believe is just too soft, regardless of what Spyderco says. They make 'em, and know more about toughness... but I use em, and the soft 440V does not compare with D2 (which, incidentally, was heat treated by Paul Bos). I have seen at least one chart that showed some pretty impressive numbers with 440V when compared to D2, M2, ATS-34, and several other steels. But, IIRC, all were custom treated, and there were no numbers for RC on the 440V in that particular chart..... convenient.

Unfortunately for me, the 440V that I have doesn't hold its edge any better than Benchmade's ATS-34; meanwhile, it corrodes just as quickly, it appears. From what I've seen in my use. That has left a bad enough impression of 440V on me that I'd just as soon not bother with it anymore, even custom. Good thing there's Talonite, BG42, and even ATS-34. Don't have any experience with 420V, and would be very interested in your opinions on it.

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iktomi
 
that is really too bad (non talonite comments for all concerned!) because I am super stoked on 440V for edge holding ability.. a little brittle right at the edge, but for how hard it is a the FINE (READ SUPER FINE) razor edge it takes Im not surprised.....Paul is the best IMHO, hes been doing it since the beginning of the whole custom knife boom, has equipment that costs more than any knifemader could dream about...does small batches very carefully under his watchful eye with all the right stuff, Rockwells tests EVERY SINGLE BLADE, and sends em back straight and right!! for example, when he heat treats 440C, first he gives them a stress relief cook, up to about 1600 degrees....because all those wierd a$$ grinds and curves on the knife set up all kinds of stresses...lets it cool off.. sends it back up to hardness cook...a little overt 1900 degrees, soaks it there for however long its supposed to....cools it down to around 300, takes it out with asbestos gloves, then sticks it in liquid nitrogen (not dry ice or some such crap!) soaks it overnite, then tempers it as per the customers instructions (I just tell him to do it however he thinks is best, unless its a knife to pound on rocks with). All this with state of the art equipments and dials that tell him the temp to a gnats butt!! end of promotion!!!
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420V-the jury is still out...as I have only made about 5 knives from the stuff so far...but I can tell you its as hard to grind as a rock when its been heat treated and almost that hard before... its MUCH tougher to get the scratches out that 440V....but I really havent formed any conclusive results so far.....Darrel is sold on the stuff and would be a better source of info....if he thinks its great...then Im sold.

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http://www.mayoknives.com




[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 08-22-2000).]
 
I just discovered this thread!
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I'm posting this because I didn't want to be left out of such a long thread.
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I have nothing useful to contribute to the discussion (big surprise, I know). Sorry.

Some day, I too will have a Talonite knife. Some day. And then...?

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Hoodoo

Why dost thou whet thy knife so earnestly?

The Merchant of Venice, Act IV. Scene I.
 
Tom, I'm still thinking about that knife I emailed you about months ago. Something with a Koa handle. One of the reasons I keep holding off is I can't decide which steel (or non-steel) I would want for it. 420V and BG42 are still in the running, but now you ALMOST make me want to consider the 440V again. Especially after reading what you say about 420V being so hard to get the scratches out, and that "the jury's still out on 420V." I'd always just assumed that since it had higher Vanadium, and could be a little harder Rc, that it would hold an edge better.

I've noticed that Darrel's 420V blades, and others' 420V blades as well, tend to have what appear to be more noticeable grinding lines than other steels. In his knives, though, it seems to add to the looks so well that I just assumed that he purposely made the grinding lines that way. Look rugged. But, on a knife with a Koa handle, I'm not sure they'd look so nice.

Have you noticed a similar difficulty in getting the grinding scratches out of Talonite? The reason I ask is I would think that the surface would scratch fairly easily (since the matrix is supposedly only around Rc49?). Yet, my Talon doesn't have a single scratch on it at all. It's still like the day I received it. Admittedly I haven't gone around pounding it on hard objects. But, it seems to have resisted scratching. I dunno, maybe I'm "smokin' dope." But, I thought I'd ask.

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iktomi
 
I have found that talonite scratches fairly easily...as for 420V....all the knives I have finished thus far have all had a nice satin finish on them.....it is a job to do it, but I just cant let a knife go out of my shop with lines from the grinder on it... thats just my trip
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(Jerry POLISHES 3V, which is supposed to be right up there with 420V in the hard to get the scratches out dept)

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Well seems they can't make the material fast enough. In chat recently a chatter told a certain Bastid that the well had gone dry thanks to that person! I hope that many here will soon decide that Talonite sucks. That's only well I will ever been able to get another knife in Talonite the way things are going.
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Regards,

Tom Carey

It's now official every forumite has posted to this thread.
 
Tom, good call! Yeah! Talonite sucks! It does not cut forever and costs too much! Don't buy it! Okay Allen, send me my new Talonite Tactical Kitchen MEUK!
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Originally posted by Tom Carey:
It's now official every forumite has posted to this thread.
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I haven't posted yet. Oh wait, I guess I just did.
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Since I'm here...and have a Talon...I'll just say, Talonite good.
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Regards,
Joe

 
Wow, all this and I haven't even joined in yet.

Talonite good/bad who cares? I usually buy my knives based on the makers reputation. Materials seldom make or break a good knife. Design, execution, treatment, and finish account for 90% of a knife's property.

o.k. I winged that it might be more like 85%?
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- I think the point still holds.

If you really want a scientific test then here's a suggestion.
1) Make up a dozen simple skinning knives from telonite (set 1).
2) Make up an identical set (set 2) using good knife steels - about 6 of each.
3) Go to a meat processing plant early in the morning give 1 knife from set 1 and another knife from set 2 to each of a dozen workers at the plant.
4) Come back at the end of the day and find out which knife each is still using.

These people are not going to fool around with a poor tool.




[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 08-27-2000).]
 
OK I don't wanna be excluded from "every forumite."
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Hope you don't mind that I add a user feedback. My experience is based on Camillus Cuda Talon.

Corrosion resistance : A

Superb! I can leave the knife dirty as I want and it never rusts.

Edge holding: B

Not so impressive. I usually use it on my favorite food, cooked ox-tails. With my poor cooking the ox-tails are quite tough. The result is I have to sharpen the knife about once every 3 meals.

Ease of Sharpening: AB

Toughness: N/A

Price v.s. Overall Performance: C

Consider another talonite : No.
(at least not at this price.)

Dew.

 
Originally posted by Dew:
Edge holding: B

Not so impressive. I usually use it on my favorite food, cooked ox-tails. With my poor cooking the ox-tails are quite tough. The result is I have to sharpen the knife about once every 3 meals.
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Dew, just out of curiosity, do you sharpen it because it no longer cuts the tails? or because it no longer shaves?

And, um.... what are ox tails? Are you talking about the thing on the a$$ end of an ox? Or is this some special name for another ... um... food? In other words: Are you cutting through bones (well, joints) with it? Again, just curious.

I have come to see that my Talon will hold its shaving edge maybe SLIGHTLY longer than my M2 Nimravus Cub. But, after it quits shaving, it still cuts everything that I use it for (cardboard, paper, plastic, vegetables.... don't think I've done meat yet, while it is "dull" that is). And it cuts it great. I mean, very clean cuts. Maybe a little higher effort, like Cliff might have mentioned a couple-hundred posts back, but it still cuts cleanly. This in comparison to the M2 or 440V after they get "dull," which tend to drag more, bunch up the material (most noticeable on cardboard), or just hang up. In notching some wood yesterday, long after the Talon quit shaving, it cut like it was verrrrry sharp, with little effort required.

Now I'm beginning to wonder it I'm just smokin' dope. I wonder how the Cub would do if I let it get "dull" way beyond not shaving? The problem it, the Talon is the first knife I can remember letting get way less than shaving sharp, without bringing it back to a shaving edge. Maybe I'm onto something here... maybe I should let all my knives get duller before sharpening. Now I'm more
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than ever. The only thing I know for sure it that I love that Talonite Talon.
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iktomi
 
Rockspyder. Yes it's that oxtails.
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I never intended to cut through bones, though due to the geometry of the oxtails the edge touched with bones from time to time. I believe it's those tough tissues(?) that caused the dullness.

I sharpened it when I felt I needed to push it with too much effort. To be honest with you, it's worse than a Spyderco Endura that I also use in this application. But of course because of the difference in blade geometry and thickness it's not a fair comparison.

Overall it's a good knife, though I like D-2 edge better.

Also waiting to see Cougar's results.

Dew.



[This message has been edited by Dew (edited 08-28-2000).]
 
Yep, me too! Looking forward to Cougar's opinions, that is. I imagine he's going to cook up some nasty cutting tests.

I'm kinda surprised by the ... Endura did you say?... out-cutting the Talon in this application. Although, I can't imagine that the Talon would take too well to hitting bone. One incident that I had in my latest workout with the Talon makes me think this is the case: During the cardboard cutting, at some point I impacted something hard with the edge of my Talon. It seemed obvious, because there was a small spot on the blade, probably 0.2mm in length, where it was reflecting light. I took out my Military and steeled the blade of the Talon on the spine of the Mil. Looking at it again, the spot was gone. For some reason, the edge had turned a little at that one point. Incidentally, after the steeling, the Talon would sorta scrape-shave the hair off my arm again. I could imagine hitting, or even "brushing" a bone could do similar to your Talon, but in a much larger area. Well, chalk it up, one job that the Talonite isn't good for.

So... ox tails, eh? Hmmmm... I think I'd like to try that sometime. How do you cook them?

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iktomi
 
Yep, me too! Looking forward to Cougar's opinions, that is. I imagine he's going to cook up some nasty cutting tests.

I'm kinda surprised by the ... Endura did you say?... out-cutting the Talon in this application. Although, I can't imagine that the Talon would take too well to hitting bone. One incident that I had in my latest workout with the Talon makes me think this is the case: During the cardboard cutting, at some point I impacted something hard with the edge of my Talon. It seemed obvious, because there was a small spot on the blade, probably 0.2mm in length, where it was reflecting light. I took out my Military and steeled the blade of the Talon on the spine of the Mil. Looking at it again, the spot was gone. For some reason, the edge had turned a little at that one point. Incidentally, after the steeling, the Talon would sorta scrape-shave the hair off my arm again. I could imagine hitting, or even "brushing" a bone could do similar to your Talon, but in a much larger area. Well, chalk it up, one job that the Talonite isn't good for.

So... ox tails, eh? Hmmmm... I think I'd like to try that sometime. How do you cook them?

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iktomi
 
DAMN NETWORK!

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 08-28-2000).]
 
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