Teaching traditional traditions.

[sunnyd]

Jackknife,

I had this nicely written three paragraph post completed and appropriately praising you for all of your excellent points, not to mention the fine documentation and your contribution here.. And Bam!. It is all gone in an instant.. Why does this happen?? This has happend in three or four yours in about as many times here and there.

Anyway, I will hit the high-points again sometime as I am pressed for time at the present..

My only request of you is to Please document all the happenings as the details become available with you and your troop.. Thanks in advance, Sir.

All the Best,
Anthony

 

[mnblade]

Because the troop is new and many of the boys not affluent, I've been thinking about bulk purchasing some knives and letting each scout earn one by doing something difficult (winter campout, difficult hike, etc.). I could sure use some advice on knife type. ... Maybe if my funds hold out, I could find a way to get inexpensive compasses, or maybe firesteels, for another reward for a difficult achievement.

Funds schmunds. Post this as a separate thread. I bet between the bunch of us folksy old farts we could come up with some knives for your guys. Especially if they don't mind getting a knife with a little mileage on it already.

 

[bill2000]

Hi JackKnife, I taught Scouts Tote 'n Chip too as well as other outdoor skills. It was one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. Both of my sons went on to become Eagle scouts.

One of the boys I taught 15 years ago still stops by the house to see what new knives I've gotten since his last visit. Guess I passed on the disease!

Glad to see the support Scouting still gets. We need it now more than ever. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[sunnyd]

Funds schmunds. Post this as a separate thread. I bet between the bunch of us folksy old farts we could come up with some knives for your guys. Especially if they don't mind getting a knife with a little mileage on it already.

Here, here.. That is a sterling idea. I have one or two vintage scout knives in mind I would consider donating to the cause if you end up doing a knife round up!.:thumbup:

 

[RobbW]

Funds schmunds. Post this as a separate thread. I bet between the bunch of us folksy old farts we could come up with some knives for your guys. Especially if they don't mind getting a knife with a little mileage on it already.

Here, here.. That is a sterling idea. I have one or two vintage scout knives in mind I would consider donating to the cause if you end up doing a knife round up!.:thumbup:

This forum is truly a great collection of people. I am humbled by the generosity and acts of kindness that I have witnessed here. Your offer is gracious and moves me more than you can know, but I must respectfully decline the offer(s). After looking up some online dealer sites, I find that I do have enough to purchase something like a SAK Recruit for the scouts. I thought that the price was higher, but I have been thinking of this for a while now, and saving as well. Since "thrifty" is a part of the Scout Law, we will find a way to get compasses and other small items along the way. We have begun a few fundraisers (potted flowers for Mothers' Day, etc.) to raise money for the bigger-ticket items which the Troop will hold in common. Life is truly good and we are blessed to be doing as much as we are. My own experience is that where there is a willingness to sacrifice and prudently plan, a way will be provided. I like teaching this to the scouts because self-reliance is a principle that works and develops character, even if it means a little extra waiting.

Again, thanks for the wonderful offer. We are doing fine, and teaching patience/goal-setting/sacrifice along the way.

And to Jackknife, I wish I had you as a scout/cub teacher. I know you'll teach much more important life lessons than just the fundamentals of knife/gun safety. Good luck.

 

[db]

RobbW well said. It is good to see someone work for something instead of accepting a donation. A very good lesson in itself.

 

[sunnyd]

RobW,

I agree with db and wish you much success on all your ventures with those boys you are mentoring to. Its nice to see you are teaching building good character along with good bushcraft skills.

 

[wintermute]

Also, there's "The Dangerous Book for Boys" by Conn and Hal Iggulden that's a must read for boy rearin'.

So this thing is pretty good? I haven't seen it but assumed that it was a yuppy version of the Boy Scout Handbook.

 

[mnblade]

After looking up some online dealer sites, I find that I do have enough to purchase something like a SAK Recruit for the scouts. I thought that the price was higher, but I have been thinking of this for a while now, and saving as well.

Scouts could do a lot worse than a SAK Recruit - a very fine knife indeed. Depending on how many you want, you might be able to buy X number of them new in box from a reputable power seller on Ebay and get cheapo bulk-rate shipping.

Guys, I'm starting to get pangs of guilt that I was such a lousy scout back in the day! (Even once had to march up and down a dirt road at night at camp for telling off-color jokes after we were all supposed to be sleeping )

 

[sunnyd]

.. Guys, I'm starting to get pangs of guilt that I was such a lousy scout back in the day! (Even once had to march up and down a dirt road at night at camp for telling off-color jokes after we were all supposed to be sleeping )

Well,, Then again, boyz will be boyz!.

 

[mp510]

The Victorinox Soldier or Wenger Standard issue both have the same features as the traditional BSA scout knife. Either would be a good knife to start the kids on. I remember I noticed how scout-knife like it was the second I took it out of the package. Providence Cutlery was doing scout knives- very cheap priced too- but the backsprings were getting rusted or something inside, despite proper treatment- a problem I've never had with any other knife provided it was treated properly.

When I was young, I lost interest in Boy Scouts very early on. I only stuck with it for a year, and it was one of the few things that I actually quit out on. I was simply bored with it- our troop never did any of the cool stuff. You should go for it, and help these kids out. Even if you can't be Mr. Van, these kids will learn useful skills that they would not otherwise know- they will be the ones to pass them one decades from now- when their kids and grandkids need to be taught such things. There's too many people already who don't respect knives and tools and other traditional outdoor recreation- simply because they don't know. Like everyone else here, I've read your stories with envy.

 

[Ed T]

I think you are probably feeling what your teacher felt years ago. HAve fun.


Here is a link to the cub scout knife available through the BSA store:
http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply...UCTS&c2=CAMPING&c3=KNIVES&c4=&lv=3&item=01883

Here are all of the BSA knives:
http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/SearchPage.aspx?page=LIST&free_text|=knife&answers_per_page=15

 

[billym]

From reading your posts (several times, each one), I think Mr. Van will be quite proud and pleased as punch. The kids will never appreciate what a fine teacher they have until they are older. Go for it and have a great time! I can't wait to hear how it goes!

I think quite a bit of Mr. Van lives on in you.

Well put!
Jackknife,
You will have a ball I guarentee. Teaching others especially subjects that you are passionate about is both easy and gratifying.
I am sure you will do great and leave a lasting impression.
Good Luck we are all behind you!
Bill

P.S
Jackknife,
I may have a source for some first aid and survival items that would be useful in your lessons. Let me know if I can help out.

 

[jackknife]

I've thought about it most of last night, and some this morning. I have so much to do, like first aid training, woods/compass navigation, and so on. But on the personel equiptment I want all the boys to have the exact same things for a couple of reasons.

1. Victorinox recruit. First, it's available at many places at cheap prices. And it has a lanyard attachment. Lets face it, these are kids. Sooner or later if not attached to them in some way it's going to disappear. But its high enough quality it will give good service and stand up to some rough handling. If it does not, Victorinox has one of the most solid factory warrenttees ouside of Buck. if it does get dropped, bright red scales make a search a bit easier. And the 3 1/4 inch size is a really good size pocket knife. Just big enough to get some work done, but small enough to go easy in a pocket and not make a blip on the radar.

2. Ese-lap model L sharpener with all but an inch of handle cut off. Small almost weightless means of having a knife sharpener on you. In the next week I'm going to teach them the same as Mr. Van tought us. Again, the bright red plastic is highly visable on the ground.

3. Dorcy AAA pocket lite. Like the recruit, available at Walmart for 5 bucks, gives good light for inside of tents or on dark trails. Light weight enough to hang on cord around neck, has several hour run time, and spare batteries that the dad's will have take up very little room or wieght. Also having thier own light on an outing is a exersise in both responsibility of ownership, and learning to ration battery use. Also in bright colors same advantages as the recruit.

4. Doans Mag block. Kid proof fire making under less than ideal conditions. I want to get these kids up to speed on getting lost and being okay. In the next few weeks we'll do shelter and fire making. Its cold out, it will make them realize how important a fire is.

5. Same model Silva compass from Dicks.

Thats just for starters, the dad's included. Now that I've had 24 hour to think about it, I feel very enthused. There's so much these kids and their dad's have to learn, every weekend could be something taking place. I already had one dad call this morning to know if I have Saturday free for a teaching get together. I'm starting to feel eager.

 

[Jeff Clark]

I would pick a Victorinox Tinker as my "scout" knife of choice. That is what I used to replace my scout knife. It is only two spring channels thick, but has many critical tools. First off it has a large and small knife blade. For those whittling projects the small knife blade is the most useful. It has three screwdriver tips so that scouts can learn to fix things. It is important to have fixit tools on their knives so that they don't learn to use cutting tools for the wrong purposes (and so that they don't cut things that they shouldn't). It has a good can opener for those campfire meals. It has a cap lifter so that they can open a microbrew for their instructor or just torque something that needs torquing. And it has an awl blade for drilling holes in belts and for starting wood screws. For a kid the tweezer is awfully useful for removing splinters.

One of the first things I would show them how to do is to install a wood screw with their scout knives.

The Tinker comes in generic and "scout knife" models:

 

[neeman]

Jackknife,

I see you teaching fundamental wisdom.
The wrapping might be Wood Lore, or how to sharpen a knife.

Look at your first lesson you have just taught us.
Basic equipment needs to equal and accessable for all.
And simple equipment will work well.

Technical skill or a life lesson?

Enjoy...

 

[zeppos]

Jackknife, I've been reading your stories for quite a while now and i've always enjoyed them very much, especially the scouts related ones. It's great that you now follow in the footsteps of mr Van and as the other forumites i'm also very eager to read about how things go.

I totally agree that you want everyone to have the same gear. That way they can concentrate on skills and equipment and not on competition with the other kids about who has the nicest gear (which is something that would certainly happen if they all had different knives and stuff).

Good luck!

 

[jackknife]

Jackknife,

I see you teaching fundamental wisdom.
The wrapping might be Wood Lore, or how to sharpen a knife.

Look at your first lesson you have just taught us.
Basic equipment needs to equal and accessable for all.
And simple equipment will work well.

Technical skill or a life lesson?

Enjoy...

Both!

In my life I have on a few occasions seen hard feelings and jealosy rise out of someone having an unfair advantage. I want these kids to be totally equal when they get out in the woods, and to each learn to use simple tools for non simple tasks. As always, there s one father who is more finacially gifted than the other dad's, and the other night when I was explaining to one father how we learned from Mr. Van to notch and groove a limb all the way around so it would break off, this one guy made kind of an off hand remark that it sounded dumb, he'll just make sure his kid had one of "those Swiss Army things with all the tools, just saw the thing off! Where do ya buy one of those swiss things, Huh?"

it reminded me so much of when Mr. Van was coaching our shooting, and we all had Mossberg and Winchester .22's that came from the local gun shop. This one kid had a dad who owned a furniture store, drove a big caddy, and was kind of a pushy sort. His kid shows up one day with a full bore Anshultz olympic grade target gun, a heavy leather shooting coat, and all the bells and whistles. Mr. Van took the dad aside and had a quiet conversation with him. The dad was heard to yell at Mr. Van that his kid will have the best gun and if he did'nt like it too bad. Mr. Van was not one to yell at. He told the man his son would not be able to compete with the other scouts with such an unfair advantage, and he had to leave the range. Mr. Van also warned the man do not talk to him like that again. Mr. Van was not one to tollerate elitist types.

I want to start these kids out with a one for all, and all for one attitude. Scouting often starts lifelong friendships like it did for me, Dave and Ev, who still get toghether after more than 50 years. Even when we were in the service, we kept in touch, and I still remember when I was in Viet Nam and I heard a jet and looked up and saw a Phantom, I'd wonder if it was my old scout buddy. Years later over a beer, Dave said the same thing about looking down at army personel on the ground, wondering if I were there someplace. Ev was a navy man and got stationed on the U.S.S. Oriskany, a carrier, and the one time they got close enough to see land over there, he wondered about the both of us. We didn't worry about Ev too much, he was a navy dentist, and dentists don't get in much trouble.

But for that kind of friendship to happen, you all have to start off equal, more or less.

 

[neeman]

Totally equal.

In the 70s, I was taking inner-city folk up to the Catskills for the weekend in the hills.
All they could afford to buy was a surplus poncho, and a blanket from the house.
We took cold food, cheese and sausage, and a pot from the house for coffee.
Built a fire for some warmth.

By the end of a weekend, they learnt that the big outdoors was equally theirs too.
Accessable on a shoestring, and theirs.

Some fine times...

 

[knowtracks]

I have an idea for you about the knives for the scouts, Jacknife.
Please email me.