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Ten Worst Folders, and a Giveaway
- Thread starter JNieporte
- Start date
Kyui Su Kim
Gold Member
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- Aug 26, 2000
- Messages
- 2,638
How could I have forgotten!? Anyone else every get the CRKT First Strike, that was probably my most regrettable purchase next to the ATAC.
I disagree. I wanted lists of worst knives, not least favorite knives. By this, it was implied that there would be failures or at least a design flaw. I just plain don't like the Spyderco Military, but I definitely don't think it should be on any Top Ten Worst Knives list.
Also, I sort of knew this would turn into a brand / country thing, but I'm really trying to get the lists of bad knives out and see what the trend is. China has some good makers, and companies like Spyderco , Buck, and Kershaw (as well as others) have picked up on it. Same with Taiwan. I cannot comment on Pakistani blades, as I don't own any. Keep the lists coming :thumbup:
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2010
- Messages
- 740
Lone Wolf/Harsey D2 double action. The retention spring clip is WAY too flimsy to inspire confidence, and no lock on the trigger. The rubber-like scale material has a texture that makes it slicker than if it were smooth. The spring action is far too strong and will not only cause the knife to jump out of your hand when firing it, but when resetting the blade will make the process totally unsafe. A trip to the hospital for stitches confirms this.
I'm not a fan of Harsey design.
I love Lone Wolf.
I just had to fire this off while I think of my list.
I'm not a fan of Harsey design.
I love Lone Wolf.
I just had to fire this off while I think of my list.
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- Joined
- Dec 10, 2006
- Messages
- 303
I listed that thing on page two....
I got two of them at the same time...one for me and the next smaller size for my wife....I can not put an edge on either of them to save a life....
Gonna be rather hard for me to nail a top 10.
Speed safe mechanism keeps breaking on me, but Kershaws are good knives otherwise.
I've only really got 1 answer: Swiss Army Knife - the blade is crap. I've got one that has a curved carving blade, and that part's good, but they should really make one without a primary blade, and leave it with a variety of screwdrivers (phillips, flat heads) bottle cap remover, carving blade, nail clipper, nail file, etc... Call it a Swiss Army Tool then, and it's fine, but damn the 'knife' sucks.
I've had other knives that sucked, but they were cheap no name knives, can't even remember what they were called.
Speed safe mechanism keeps breaking on me, but Kershaws are good knives otherwise.
I've only really got 1 answer: Swiss Army Knife - the blade is crap. I've got one that has a curved carving blade, and that part's good, but they should really make one without a primary blade, and leave it with a variety of screwdrivers (phillips, flat heads) bottle cap remover, carving blade, nail clipper, nail file, etc... Call it a Swiss Army Tool then, and it's fine, but damn the 'knife' sucks.
I've had other knives that sucked, but they were cheap no name knives, can't even remember what they were called.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 3,200
In no particular order.
1. Sog Flash--It was like trying to hold onto plastic cutlery
2. Sog Trident--don't get me started
3. CRKT M16--I held one and the liner failed with pressure to the spine
4. Benchmade Griptillian--too much plastic and a poor execution of the axis lock in the many that I've held. Other BM's are much better
5. Cold Steel...anything AUS-8 from them is overpriced, the Ti-lite was an exceptional put-off
6. Emerson CQC-15. I echo TheBleedingEdge's words.
7. Gerber paraframe--needs no explanation
8. Smith&Wesson folders--I can't even remember the retarded model names, but the 500 magnum comes to mind.
9. Any ridiculous mantis
10. Spyderco Tenacious
1. Sog Flash--It was like trying to hold onto plastic cutlery
2. Sog Trident--don't get me started
3. CRKT M16--I held one and the liner failed with pressure to the spine
4. Benchmade Griptillian--too much plastic and a poor execution of the axis lock in the many that I've held. Other BM's are much better
5. Cold Steel...anything AUS-8 from them is overpriced, the Ti-lite was an exceptional put-off
6. Emerson CQC-15. I echo TheBleedingEdge's words.
7. Gerber paraframe--needs no explanation
8. Smith&Wesson folders--I can't even remember the retarded model names, but the 500 magnum comes to mind.
9. Any ridiculous mantis
10. Spyderco Tenacious
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2008
- Messages
- 25,962
Working in a knife shop has it's advantages--I've played with a bunch of knives I haven't liked at all without having to make the error of buying sight unseen. Some knife designs I have extreme distaste for (in no particular order):
10) The Kabar FIN series of folders--Clunky, uncomfortable and ugly, what takes the cake with these guys is that when you try to open the knife the projecting guard jams you right in the thumb. Every time.
9) The Cold Steel Triple Action--a fascinating concept, allowing you to have a double-edged folder, and easy to flip open and closed once you get the hand of it. Mess up closing it, however, and you end up forcibly smashing your primary cutting edge into the steel lock bar, or burying it point-first into the aluminum cover handle. Said aluminum is also buttery soft, causing the handle pivot to egg out and loosen over time. It also attracts fingerprints and scratches like roadkill attracts flies.
8) Cold Steel Espada XL--Ok. First off I want to say that this is a pretty cool concept. It's literally a pocket machete. But let's use aluminum that ISN'T buttery soft and use something other than a high hollow saber grind that weakens the integrity of the blade during real-world use. Also let's deweaponize the appearance (yes I know it's based on the Spanish navaja) and replace the scales with FRN and bring the cost way down. Guess what? You now have a clip point version of a Rajah II.
7) Gerber Remix--a novel design but when did novelty start becoming a priority over safety at Gerber? Surely the Remix was a precursor to other such "nifty but horribly dangerous" ideas as that folding hatchet of theirs--but more on that later. The Remix gives you the marginal advantage over a typical knife by allowing you to place your index finger through a hole in the handle that comprises your pivot pin. Problem is the lock holding it open is so weak that I can BREAK it with my bear hands with only marginal effort. A small bar no more than 1 mm thick is all that stands in the way of that knife chowing your fingers. You may not need a lock when using a knife properly--but how many of Gerber's customers use their knives only for knife-like tasks?
6) CRKT Edgie--I'll join the throngs who don't like this little thing. It's an awkward single-bevel grind that doesn't lock marketed for hard use. The "sharpener" only sharpens on one side, giving you a continuously rolled edge. You can try sharpening it the old fashioned way but it'll be back to being "working dull" the second you close it. We have one at the shop for cutting cardboard and I took it apart, removed the sharpener plate, reassembled it, and converted it to a double-bevel grind. We call it the Wedgie now.
5) CRKT KISS--Aside from the cheesy name, the lock is absolutely useless. The second you squeeze down on it it disengages. The absence of an edge protector means that it's likely to get opened jostling around in your pocket if that's how you like to carry. Fortunately these problems were solved with the creation of the HUG.
4) Emerson in general--Worst pivots I've ever seen on a production folder from a major company. Tighten them down so there's no blade play and it makes an awful grinding noise when you open it. Loosen it enough so it snaps open nicely with a flick of a thumb and the blade wiggles badly.
The thumb plates are round and thus can be loosened with a small twist--they just need to make the top and bottom have flat edges to keep it from rotating. Other companies are doing it for less so why not them?
The double bevel grinds with single bevel edges just confuse me and almost smack of laziness and corner cutting--it's inexcusable on a knife in that price bracket.
The use of standard phillips and flat-headed screws is a weak premise as well. You simply shouldn't have to re-tighten the screws in the field on a knife that high-end. I have many knives that are much less expensive that haven't needed adjusting for well over a year.
Also, while the Wave Feature is innovative it's kind of embarrassing for Emerson that Spyderco does a better job waving their knives than they do. The hooks are just too small for reliable deployment comparatively. All around I believe that they're VERY overpriced for what they are--that being said if someone gave me one free I'd be pleased as punch.
3) Buck Rush/Impulse--One of the most finicky mechanisms I've seen on an assisted opener. Get the tiniest bit of dust in that pivot and it won't open right until it goes through a deep clean. The safety weakens over time and jams your thumb if held in certain (normally comfortable) ways.
2) Boker Urban Survival--a great idea for an urban-friendly knife that looks like and can be held very much like a pen. But why make it such an obtuse single-bevel grind? Another example of an excellent concept ruined by lack of thought. The edge is so obtuse as to make it unusable and cannot be fixed without eating up half of the already diminutive blade.
1) The Gerber folding hatchet--a folding impact tool. Must I explain? There's a reason it never made it to market.
DISCLAIMER: These are just my own thoughts on the matter. Feel free to disagree.
10) The Kabar FIN series of folders--Clunky, uncomfortable and ugly, what takes the cake with these guys is that when you try to open the knife the projecting guard jams you right in the thumb. Every time.
9) The Cold Steel Triple Action--a fascinating concept, allowing you to have a double-edged folder, and easy to flip open and closed once you get the hand of it. Mess up closing it, however, and you end up forcibly smashing your primary cutting edge into the steel lock bar, or burying it point-first into the aluminum cover handle. Said aluminum is also buttery soft, causing the handle pivot to egg out and loosen over time. It also attracts fingerprints and scratches like roadkill attracts flies.
8) Cold Steel Espada XL--Ok. First off I want to say that this is a pretty cool concept. It's literally a pocket machete. But let's use aluminum that ISN'T buttery soft and use something other than a high hollow saber grind that weakens the integrity of the blade during real-world use. Also let's deweaponize the appearance (yes I know it's based on the Spanish navaja) and replace the scales with FRN and bring the cost way down. Guess what? You now have a clip point version of a Rajah II.
7) Gerber Remix--a novel design but when did novelty start becoming a priority over safety at Gerber? Surely the Remix was a precursor to other such "nifty but horribly dangerous" ideas as that folding hatchet of theirs--but more on that later. The Remix gives you the marginal advantage over a typical knife by allowing you to place your index finger through a hole in the handle that comprises your pivot pin. Problem is the lock holding it open is so weak that I can BREAK it with my bear hands with only marginal effort. A small bar no more than 1 mm thick is all that stands in the way of that knife chowing your fingers. You may not need a lock when using a knife properly--but how many of Gerber's customers use their knives only for knife-like tasks?
6) CRKT Edgie--I'll join the throngs who don't like this little thing. It's an awkward single-bevel grind that doesn't lock marketed for hard use. The "sharpener" only sharpens on one side, giving you a continuously rolled edge. You can try sharpening it the old fashioned way but it'll be back to being "working dull" the second you close it. We have one at the shop for cutting cardboard and I took it apart, removed the sharpener plate, reassembled it, and converted it to a double-bevel grind. We call it the Wedgie now.
5) CRKT KISS--Aside from the cheesy name, the lock is absolutely useless. The second you squeeze down on it it disengages. The absence of an edge protector means that it's likely to get opened jostling around in your pocket if that's how you like to carry. Fortunately these problems were solved with the creation of the HUG.
4) Emerson in general--Worst pivots I've ever seen on a production folder from a major company. Tighten them down so there's no blade play and it makes an awful grinding noise when you open it. Loosen it enough so it snaps open nicely with a flick of a thumb and the blade wiggles badly.
The thumb plates are round and thus can be loosened with a small twist--they just need to make the top and bottom have flat edges to keep it from rotating. Other companies are doing it for less so why not them?
The double bevel grinds with single bevel edges just confuse me and almost smack of laziness and corner cutting--it's inexcusable on a knife in that price bracket.
The use of standard phillips and flat-headed screws is a weak premise as well. You simply shouldn't have to re-tighten the screws in the field on a knife that high-end. I have many knives that are much less expensive that haven't needed adjusting for well over a year.
Also, while the Wave Feature is innovative it's kind of embarrassing for Emerson that Spyderco does a better job waving their knives than they do. The hooks are just too small for reliable deployment comparatively. All around I believe that they're VERY overpriced for what they are--that being said if someone gave me one free I'd be pleased as punch.
3) Buck Rush/Impulse--One of the most finicky mechanisms I've seen on an assisted opener. Get the tiniest bit of dust in that pivot and it won't open right until it goes through a deep clean. The safety weakens over time and jams your thumb if held in certain (normally comfortable) ways.
2) Boker Urban Survival--a great idea for an urban-friendly knife that looks like and can be held very much like a pen. But why make it such an obtuse single-bevel grind? Another example of an excellent concept ruined by lack of thought. The edge is so obtuse as to make it unusable and cannot be fixed without eating up half of the already diminutive blade.
1) The Gerber folding hatchet--a folding impact tool. Must I explain? There's a reason it never made it to market.
DISCLAIMER: These are just my own thoughts on the matter. Feel free to disagree.
You win. It's a black lockback, partially serrated, with a pocket clip, for one dollar. You win a Spyderco Tenacious, plain edge, in the box. The only thing is, I sanded down the G-10 on the left side so the clip wouldn't snag the pocket as easily. Then the guy I did it for changed his mind. Other than that one thing, the knife is brand new. Send me your address and I'll send it to you for free.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2010
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- 4
Then theres this awful thing: http://www.knifecave.com/fantasy/sto...r/DBFM493.html Come to the party as your favorite concentration camp guard, all for only $6.16!
call me a racist or what ever but that knife would be awesome to have
call me a racist or what ever but that knife would be awesome to have
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,066
Congrats spydercofan. :thumbup: Post pics of your prize when you get it.
I know this isn't the place, but if you still own the MPR it will be helpful.....the stop pin is hexagon shaped, so when you tighten it you can take all up and down play out of the knife(and make the lock engage further.....my detent has wore in nicely, though i have to admit its retention is a little over the top
I've carried a buck rush for 6 years and have none of these problems
but if the QC was bad enough that you put them on here, i guess they deserve it
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- Oct 5, 2006
- Messages
- 3,124
Interesting list and exercise. I started to tabulate the results, but there are too many and I'm too lazy. I noticed a few things:
- Case, Chris Reeve, and Strider are the only major manufacturers that seem to have avoided the list entirely. CRK and Strider probably don't sell all that many knives, but Case sure does.
- Benchmade and Spyderco received very few votes.
- Kershaw received more votes than I would have thought.
- Cold Steel, CRKT, Frost Cutlery, Gerber and Schrade are universally loathed.
- So are Dark Ops and Mantis knives.
- Made in China and Pakistan knives are loathed even more.
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- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 4,066
I thought this at first as well, but then I started thinking about the crazy number of different models that Kershaw has put out over the years and I have to say that with all those different knives to pick at, the name Kershaw actually didn't pop up as often as it could have. I think it says a lot about their QC and CS.
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- Oct 20, 2004
- Messages
- 4,704
It's your list and you have every right to include whatever but I'm curious. Do you include all FRN knives as bad knives or just that one in particular? Also what issues do you have with the AXIS lock? I have had lots of grips that were all excellent and I'm fairly picky about AXIS locks. I would say the one on the 710 is my least favorite and it also happens to be the first model with the AXIS. Just curious...
If you do the numbers, knowing that makers make many more knives then the number of complaints on this thread what does that say?What are the real numbers of knife failures in the world?How many thoughts were based on fact not jumpers on the band wagon called emotion?How many knife makers refused to correct problems with their knives?How many people used this thread to blast a maker they hate?How many children posted on this thread?Can there be any way of knowing quality control issues with a knife except by threads like this one?Would knife makers be smart to post quality control policy with buyers?If you were the head of a company how would you operate quality control?
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- Joined
- Jan 21, 2006
- Messages
- 148
I belong to a fairly large outdoors-oriented type club and it wasn't a nanosecond after it became my month to do some purchasing chores when I received an email from a Chinese knife manufacturer. How they do it I dunno, but the guy offered to send me 8 different models of his product, free of any charge, and said that his company was doing the work for Spyderco in their Byrd line, so the quality was outstanding.
What the hell I says to myself, how could it hurt. About a month later I receive a large package in the mail, and as God is my judge various pieces from various knifes began falling out of the box as I opened it. Inside were knockoffs of many brand name knives, Spyderco, Cold steel, Benchmade, Kershaw, and some I did not recognize. EACH and EVERY knife had something drastically wrong with it. Lose fitting blades no matter how much effort was extended to prohibit side to side or up and down wiggle wobble, liner and frame and spine locks that failed under the most minimal of pressures, poorly ground edges; you name it they did it.
It led me to believe, correct or not, that perhaps the fellow DID work for a company that had numerous US-based contacts in the cutlery business, but doing these knockoffs on their own was disastrous with regards to any semblance of quality control. I then went to eBay and surreptitiously purchased two of his products, waited the obligatory 4 weeks for delivery...and by the way I was no longer ordering anything for the club this was merely an effort to try and understand what was going on as I usually like to give most folks the benefit of the doubt...but received such shoddy knifes in return as to convince me that okay, while under the scrutiny of whomever was paying for them to manufacture their products for American consumption, they made decent enough knives, but after 10 total clunkers, and upon being made aware of such defects acted as if nothing untoward had happened and offered to replace all of them free of charge.
I didn't want to go into a never ending loop of order then return so I declined. Lesson learned, at least by me, was the probability that they can indeed make credible cutlery but not unsupervised. Besides, we weren't going to be purchasing knockoffs anyway, and I was led to believe the knives were of their own design. Strike scazillion and they were out.
Your mileage may of course vary but 10 for 10 was everything I needed to know.
What the hell I says to myself, how could it hurt. About a month later I receive a large package in the mail, and as God is my judge various pieces from various knifes began falling out of the box as I opened it. Inside were knockoffs of many brand name knives, Spyderco, Cold steel, Benchmade, Kershaw, and some I did not recognize. EACH and EVERY knife had something drastically wrong with it. Lose fitting blades no matter how much effort was extended to prohibit side to side or up and down wiggle wobble, liner and frame and spine locks that failed under the most minimal of pressures, poorly ground edges; you name it they did it.
It led me to believe, correct or not, that perhaps the fellow DID work for a company that had numerous US-based contacts in the cutlery business, but doing these knockoffs on their own was disastrous with regards to any semblance of quality control. I then went to eBay and surreptitiously purchased two of his products, waited the obligatory 4 weeks for delivery...and by the way I was no longer ordering anything for the club this was merely an effort to try and understand what was going on as I usually like to give most folks the benefit of the doubt...but received such shoddy knifes in return as to convince me that okay, while under the scrutiny of whomever was paying for them to manufacture their products for American consumption, they made decent enough knives, but after 10 total clunkers, and upon being made aware of such defects acted as if nothing untoward had happened and offered to replace all of them free of charge.
I didn't want to go into a never ending loop of order then return so I declined. Lesson learned, at least by me, was the probability that they can indeed make credible cutlery but not unsupervised. Besides, we weren't going to be purchasing knockoffs anyway, and I was led to believe the knives were of their own design. Strike scazillion and they were out.
Your mileage may of course vary but 10 for 10 was everything I needed to know.