Tenacious Lighweight in 8cr13mov VS s35vn

TakaBKK said:
... I am grateful for all the comments and feedback. After watching (too many?) YouTube viseos I was getting the impression that the Tenacious is ‘not good’ and that the s35vn version is ‘not worth it’. This platform is much more down to earth and a place where users can share/exchange their experiences and opinions.
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David Mary said:
You will find a lot of people even on Bladeforums who will say the Tenacious is no longer "relevant" given the variety of quality knives offered at the same price point. For me, it is a question of al the design elements of the Tenacious coming together in a way that I really like. Full length cutting edge, neutral handle that you can get all the way up to the cutting edge on, but safely without undue risk of slipping up on the blade, a blade shape and geometry that has a great balance of strength and cutting ability (though I tend to regrind mine for even more cutting ability at the expense of some strength), a locking mechanism that is quite strong, and very user friendly, including easy to use left handed... Combine that with the fact that I detest flipper knives (which seem to be invariably the types of designs that people tout as "better" than the Tenacious) and you have a knife that, while some may turn their noses at it, will work, and cut and work and cut, and feel great in the hand doing so.
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I've long thought that the 8Cr13Mov version was either obsolete or overpriced. For instance, it might be a good deal in 2021 if the Minimum Advertised Price was like $25. Unfortunately, the MAP is over $50! It's also not like 8Cr13Mov just became obsolete in that price range. It's felt that way for a long time. It keeps getting worse with each passing year as other companies continue to improve and offer more competitive products for less. I think this is where a lot of the hate originates.

The S35VN version is a much better deal. Sure, some people argue that it's a tad overpriced for what it is. Something like the S35VN version of the Elementum is arguably "nicer" and more impressive for less. Still, it's not wildly out of line with other knives in S35VN. It offers the form factor of the Tenacious in a much better steel. It puts the Tenacious on the map in the first place for lots of consumers who no longer view 8Cr13Mov as "good enough" to make their EDC rotation. (I'm one of those people.) It also works well as a flickable liner-lock option alongside Spyderco's nicer knives in S30V or BD1N.

Another place where people might knock it is not running on bearings. That's par for the course though. For instance, I'd like my Sage 5 better if it had a stronger detent and ran on bearings.
 
I never was a Spyderco fan
Or even thinker, since decades
But very recently found that Delica 4 is very nice and handy and useful
Note - I got a lot of Spydercos in hand
Tenacious too, no specially positive thoughts, sorry
 
TakaBKK said:
Hello All.

Overseas. Very limited selection. Looking for EDC knife.

Tenacious Lightweight:
8cr13mov ($52)
s35vn ($100)

For corrosion resistance & edge retention, is it worth paying nearly 2x the price?

Any suggestions to help me make a decision please.

Thank you.
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I'd honestly go for the upgrade. While the 8cr version's a pretty good knife, s35 makes it an absolute beast. All you'll really need to do is get a decent deep-carry clip and you'll be set.
 
David Mary said:
You will find a lot of people even on Bladeforums who will say the Tenacious is no longer "relevant" given the variety of quality knives offered at the same price point. For me, it is a question of all the design elements of the Tenacious coming together in a way that I really like. Full length cutting edge, neutral handle that you can get all the way up to the cutting edge on, but safely without undue risk of slipping up on the blade, a blade shape and geometry that has a great balance of strength and cutting ability (though I tend to regrind mine for even more cutting ability at the expense of some strength), negative blade angle for added leverage, a locking mechanism that is quite strong, and very user friendly, including easy to use left handed... Combine that with the fact that I detest flipper knives (which seem to be invariably the types of designs that people tout as "better" than the Tenacious) and you have a knife that, while some may turn their noses at it, will work, and cut and work and cut, and feel great in the hand doing so.
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I totally agree. For me, the Tenacious has always been the “perfect” folder: no finger choil (wasted blade), no sharpening choil (where whatever one migjt want to cut gets hooked-up in), no flipper studs (that often are in the way when cutting), comfortable handle where you can get close to the blade without worries, etc. Pretty much all that you mentioned. I always felt confused why such a great but old knife wasn’t praised more. It’s all I ever want in a folder; something that works and cuts and keeps on doing so well.
 
David Mary said:
You will find a lot of people even on Bladeforums who will say the Tenacious is no longer "relevant" given the variety of quality knives offered at the same price point. For me, it is a question of all the design elements of the Tenacious coming together in a way that I really like. Full length cutting edge, neutral handle that you can get all the way up to the cutting edge on, but safely without undue risk of slipping up on the blade, a blade shape and geometry that has a great balance of strength and cutting ability (though I tend to regrind mine for even more cutting ability at the expense of some strength), negative blade angle for added leverage, a locking mechanism that is quite strong, and very user friendly, including easy to use left handed... Combine that with the fact that I detest flipper knives (which seem to be invariably the types of designs that people tout as "better" than the Tenacious) and you have a knife that, while some may turn their noses at it, will work, and cut and work and cut, and feel great in the hand doing so.
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This times 1000... :thumbsup: 😍 :thumbsup:
John
 
Thanks John! All that and I still forgot to mention the opening hole, which is in my opinion superior to all other opening methods.
 
I don't doubt it. But for me, I like the option to open slow or fast at my discretion.
 
Chronovore said:
I've long thought that the 8Cr13Mov version was either obsolete or overpriced.
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I have one Tenacious left, with blue G10. I have a lot of PM2 and Manix2 and those are what I EDC. I've been using the Tenacious as my camping knife, not wanting to take the risk of losing a much more valuable knife. I found out about other brands such as Civivi and started looking into them, I've always known about other options such as the RAT. All of these seem to be in the same price range, and Spyderco is a company that makes a quality product with good warranty. A Civivi at similar price is known to have quality variations and try sending one back to the factory for corrections. So I think the 8Cr version is reasonably priced- currently about $43 at my favorite online retailer. Now the S35VN version is much more expensive, but S35VN is a premium steel and a similar Spyderco from Golden would be even more expensive. I would be happy to EDC the Tenacious in S35VN but I have too many EDC knives to choose from, but I might buy the cheaper version as a camping knife.
 
bdmicarta said:
I have one Tenacious left, with blue G10. I have a lot of PM2 and Manix2 and those are what I EDC. I've been using the Tenacious as my camping knife, not wanting to take the risk of losing a much more valuable knife. I found out about other brands such as Civivi and started looking into them, I've always known about other options such as the RAT. All of these seem to be in the same price range, and Spyderco is a company that makes a quality product with good warranty. A Civivi at similar price is known to have quality variations and try sending one back to the factory for corrections. So I think the 8Cr version is reasonably priced- currently about $43 at my favorite online retailer. Now the S35VN version is much more expensive, but S35VN is a premium steel and a similar Spyderco from Golden would be even more expensive. I would be happy to EDC the Tenacious in S35VN but I have too many EDC knives to choose from, but I might buy the cheaper version as a camping knife.
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I've now owned over a dozen Civivi knives and I've given more out as gifts. In each case, I've disassembled them for inspection and quality lubrication. (Regardless of company, I always like to change out the factory mystery lube on a new knife.) Just as with the mainline WE, Ferrum Forge, and Sencut knives I've had; fit and finish tends to be excellent both inside and out. This really stands out in the budget category where knives often ship with nasty internals, have lots of extraneous tool marks, etc. While not terrible, the budget Spyderco and Byrd knives I've had apart haven't been anywhere near as nice.

Full disclosure, I did send back two of those several Civivi knives for having a weak detent. Both were different versions of the Elementum. Of course, I've gotten weak detents from a lot of companies from QSP to TRM. While the average Elementum has a good detent, and the replacements for mine were great, that does represent some degree of quality variation. I suppose the question is how that stacks up against the norm given my sample size. Coincidentally, the detents on my Sage 5 and Kapara are both much weaker than I'd like but from what I hear, that is normal for those knives and not a QC issue. (I ordered the S35VN Tenacious because of this thread and I'll be glad to talk about it once I get it.)

In other areas of comparison, the Civivi and Sencut knives in the $40-60 range have two major advantages. The first might not matter to some people but the action tends to be amazing. The second is steel. Sure, Spyderco's 8Cr13Mov might get a relatively good heat treatment. However, it still falls significantly short of your average 9Cr18Mov in terms of both edge retention and corrosion resistance. Meanwhile, WE's 9Cr18Mov gets an exceptional heat treatment. Forget 8Cr13Mov, WE's 9Cr18Mov tends to hold a better edge than Spyderco's VG-10.
 
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I have had the Persistence for a few days now.

Love the blade shape. Despite the steel, geometry helps this knife cut much longer than I suspected. Literally a couple of swipes on the Sharpmaker and the edge pops right back.

The G10 is not as slick as I was expecting. Better traction than the plastic scales on a Rat 1 or 2. I can see how over time, they will become even smoother though.

Lockup is perfectly fine, centering was good. Action is not gritty, but smooth. Not hydraulic by any means, but works fine.

The edge was sharpened evenly. Changed the pocket clip to tip-up and notes blue Loctite on the screws. No noticeable blade play. Pocket clip has just the right amount of tension.

I am not a fan of the thumb ramp. It's to abrupt and rather awkward. The jimping is cut well; it's cut straight rather than angled like the Golden models. I had to tighten all the body screws, as they were all loose.

Overall I like it. I can see how this model can easily fall into a daily use role. The design fills a broad variety of uses.
 
MolokaiRider said:
I am not a fan of the thumb ramp. It's to abrupt and rather awkward.
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This might be my only actual complaint about the Spyderco value line. Every unit of the Tenacious and Resilience I have ever owned had this same issue. If you want to rest your thumb squarely on the hump, it is downright uncomfortable, and if you used it to apply force to a thrust, it would be painful. I always soften the point on the thumb ramp, and you could do the same. If you do, you will suddenly like the knife twice as much.

Of course, I don't stop there. I then mod the blade shape, crown the spine and thumb ramp, regrind the blade even thinner (I must be spoiled now that I am a maker, because even the "good" geometry of a factory Spyderco is "thick" to me), install a detent ramp, skeletonize the liners even more, chamfer the scale edges....
 
David Mary said:
This might be my only actual complaint about the Spyderco value line. Every unit of the Tenacious and Resilience I have ever owned had this same issue. If you want to rest your thumb squarely on the hump, it is downright uncomfortable, and if you used it to apply force to a thrust, it would be painful. I always soften the point on the thumb ramp, and you could do the same. If you do, you will suddenly like the knife twice as much.

Of course, I don't stop there. I then mod the blade shape, crown the spine and thumb ramp, regrind the blade even thinner (I must be spoiled now that I am a maker, because even the "good" geometry of a factory Spyderco is "thick" to me), install a detent ramp, skeletonize the liners even more, chamfer the scale edges....
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I am glad I followed your advice and tried one. It really does fall in the category of an affordable working person's EDC.

Your mods are always a treat to see. The ramp would certainly benefit from a bit of filing down.
 
I'm going to post a review of my Resilience lightweight soon. Once I finish all the work. One thing I skipped this time was extra skeletonizing, but not for reasons of strength, but balance.
 
David Mary said:
This might be my only actual complaint about the Spyderco value line. Every unit of the Tenacious and Resilience I have ever owned had this same issue. If you want to rest your thumb squarely on the hump, it is downright uncomfortable, and if you used it to apply force to a thrust, it would be painful. I always soften the point on the thumb ramp, and you could do the same. If you do, you will suddenly like the knife twice as much.

Of course, I don't stop there. I then mod the blade shape, crown the spine and thumb ramp, regrind the blade even thinner (I must be spoiled now that I am a maker, because even the "good" geometry of a factory Spyderco is "thick" to me), install a detent ramp, skeletonize the liners even more, chamfer the scale edges....
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I've come to view Spyderco as "likely project knives", regardless of price. It might be swapping out the stock clip for an MXG or Lynch clip. It might be chamfering the rim of the Spydie hole. It might be softening the spine or scale edges. I'll be taking my first whack at a thumb ramp soon. Another thing is deleting bits of handle. I did my Sage 5 because the offending portion was just scale. I haven't done the same thing to my Kapara because I haven't felt up to taking the liners down too.

A problem here is that Spyderco knives tend to give me more trouble than usual in the assembly and disassembly phase. Hardware seems easier to strip than some other brands and they use a lot of T6. Some of my worst centering challenges have come from Spyderco, including the Tenacious I just had apart...

BTW, here is my slowly evolving Sage 5...

LK5QHac.jpg
 
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Great mod to the Sage 5. I like how they gave just enough liner that you didn't have to expose any to make it work.
 
I love Cold Steel's S35VN. I'm unfamiliar with Spyderco's version. I had a Tenacious in 8Cr13mov, and it microchipped horribly when being sharpened. Bad batch. I've had Spyderco Byrd knives in 8CR, and they were trash for edge retention.
 
Billy The Hungry said:
I love Cold Steel's S35VN. I'm unfamiliar with Spyderco's version. I had a Tenacious in 8Cr13mov, and it microchipped horribly when being sharpened. Bad batch. I've had Spyderco Byrd knives in 8CR, and they were trash for edge retention.
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This is why I took issue with Larrin's recent rating for 8Cr13Mov. While it could be a reasonable EDC steel, it usually isn't. Spyderco's 8Cr13Mov might be better than average for that steel but it's still pretty bad compared to bog-standard production knives in 14C28N, 9Cr18Mov, Acuto 440, etc. Even AUS-8, which has a similar composition, will occasionally stand out with decent performance. I've just never seen that from 8Cr13Mov.

While the average S35VN we see in Chinese knives at this price is a big step up from 8Cr13Mov, and totally acceptable for my own EDC use, we do see complaints that it isn't as good as it could be. It's sort of like the M390 we see on $100ish knives coming out of China. Performance varies and while usually okay for the price, don't expect it to compare with higher-end knives where it gets a better heat treatment.

This is a big reason you might see me discussing WE's 9Cr18Mov around the forums. They seem to have figured out a good process for the large-scale heat treatment of that steel. With that heat treatment, we see the opposite effect. It gets closer to the level of performance we see from some of the less stellar S35VN at a much lower price.
 
Chronovore said:
This is why I took issue with Larrin's recent rating for 8Cr13Mov. While it could be a reasonable EDC steel, it usually isn't. Spyderco's 8Cr13Mov might be better than average for that steel but it's still pretty bad compared to bog-standard production knives in 14C28N, 9Cr18Mov, Acuto 440, etc. Even AUS-8, which has a similar composition, will occasionally stand out with decent performance. I've just never seen that from 8Cr13Mov.

While the average S35VN we see in Chinese knives at this price is a big step up from 8Cr13Mov, and totally acceptable for my own EDC use, we do see complaints that it isn't as good as it could be. It's sort of like the M390 we see on $100ish knives coming out of China. Performance varies and while usually okay for the price, don't expect it to compare with higher-end knives where it gets a better heat treatment.

This is a big reason you might see me discussing WE's 9Cr18Mov around the forums. They seem to have figured out a good process for the large-scale heat treatment of that steel. With that heat treatment, we see the opposite effect. It gets closer to the level of performance we see from some of the less stellar S35VN at a much lower price.
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I think Kershaw does an okay job with 8CR. Theirs gets shaving sharp very easily. Just don't expect it to be a cardboard destroyer.

I actually like Aus 8. I wouldn't pay good money for it, but in the $40 and under price range I enjoy it. In my opinion, it is definitely a step up from 8CR. I'm weird I guess because I actually prefer it to D2.

It's all about personal experiences and personal opinions. Unfortunately, no two brands in the budget realm makes all things equal. I'm sure Benchmade's D2 is far superior to some no name Chinese D2 steel, for instance.
 
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