Tenacious Lighweight in 8cr13mov VS s35vn

Billy The Hungry said:
I think Kershaw does an okay job with 8CR. Theirs gets shaving sharp very easily. Just don't expect it to be a cardboard destroyer.

I actually like Aus 8. I wouldn't pay good money for it, but in the $40 and under price range I enjoy it. In my opinion, it is definitely a step up from 8CR. I'm weird I guess because I actually prefer it to D2.

It's all about personal experiences and personal opinions. Unfortunately, no two brands in the budget realm makes all things equal. I'm sure Benchmade's D2 is far superior to some no name Chinese D2 steel, for instance.
Click to expand...

You are largely correct here. It's relatively easy to get a very sharp edge on 8Cr13Mov. It just doesn't last very long. It wears down to a working edge quickly. The working edge will hang on more respectably but generally not as long as the other steels we've discussed here.

I've often wondered whether AUS-8 tends to get a better heat treatment, if its small difference with 8Cr13Mov makes it easier to treat, or if there is a difference in quality control on the composition of these two steels. In my experiences, 8Cr13Mov seems to have a relatively small range in quality from best to worst, with the best still being subpar relative to those better budget steels. Meanwhile, the worst AUS-8 I've had might be closer to the middle of 8Cr's range while the best AUS-8 is much better. I still have a Rat 2 and a Harnds Talisman in AUS-8 that are decent enough to hang around.

I have no issues with liking AUS-8 better than Chinese D2. D2 has a large range of performance. While the worst D2 I've had is still better than the best 8Cr13Mov I've had, the best AUS-8 is competitive. While it went the other way in Pete's test on rope, check out this cut test between the AUS-8 and D2 versions of the Rat at 15dps versus cardboard:

 
Hello All.

Thank you for the advice and info you shared to help me make a decision.

I bought the s35vn… I really tried to like it (nice blade shape, nice handle shape, nice handle material)… but I had to sell it.

Why?
1) My previous ‘cheap’ Persistence had a perfect grind all the way to the ricasso. I was disappointed that a more expensive knife couldn’t get this right. Not the main reason, but it compounded with 2).

2) The action was very stiff; impossible to flip. Loosening the pivot screw, even minutely, made the blade wander horribly off-center. Also, it wasn’t even as nicely centered to begin with as my old Persistence.

Spyderco fans please don’t hate me, but this has put me off Spyderco for a while. Lesson learned: handle before buying (if possible) or be willing to sell at discount if not pleased with the product.
 
Chronovore said:
You are largely correct here. It's relatively easy to get a very sharp edge on 8Cr13Mov. It just doesn't last very long. It wears down to a working edge quickly. The working edge will hang on more respectably but generally not as long as the other steels we've discussed here.

I've often wondered whether AUS-8 tends to get a better heat treatment, if its small difference with 8Cr13Mov makes it easier to treat, or if there is a difference in quality control on the composition of these two steels. In my experiences, 8Cr13Mov seems to have a relatively small range in quality from best to worst, with the best still being subpar relative to those better budget steels. Meanwhile, the worst AUS-8 I've had might be closer to the middle of 8Cr's range while the best AUS-8 is much better. I still have a Rat 2 and a Harnds Talisman in AUS-8 that are decent enough to hang around.

I have no issues with liking AUS-8 better than Chinese D2. D2 has a large range of performance. While the worst D2 I've had is still better than the best 8Cr13Mov I've had, the best AUS-8 is competitive. While it went the other way in Pete's test on rope, check out this cut test between the AUS-8 and D2 versions of the Rat at 15dps versus cardboard:

Click to expand...

I only had one D2 knife (a Steel Will Cager). It was the only knife that started to rust. That came as a surprise because neither O1 nor 1095 have any issues with rust.
 
I'm sorry to hear that friend.

My first few spydercos all came very well tuned (millitary, sage 5, para 3 max), years ago. My most recent spydercos were very stiff as well, including shaman, endura, para 3 cruwear (I was able to handle 2 of these, mine was pretty off centered and stiff, my buddy's was REALLY stiff).

The shaman was the only one that "broke in" after use and OCD (obsessive compulsive deployment), the rest I tuned.

In comparison, I have never gotten anything from Civivi or Bestech that felt this bad out the box. Benchmade, forget about it. Old Benchmades that I've got were awesome and sharp! Recent years I can barely get them to cut paper well. I've touched all of them up on my white sharpmaker stones.

Ironically, the two 8cr tenacious I've gotten recently (1 new 1 used) were both easy to flick and not too stiff...after I worked lube in haha. Tenacious makes this weird grinding noise when I flick open, not sure if anyone else experiences this.

Edit: forgot to mention, you can get it manually tuned by sending it in to spyderco warranty, they'll fix alot of things on the knife. They have one of the faster turnaround times and are quite good.
 
My 8CR/G10 tenacious came in stiff but broke in after a few days and opens smooth and fast now with solid lockup and no blade play. I have used it since Christmas day and only touched it up once since then.
 
T TakaBKK it's too bad you didn't post here about this before selling. Most times tuning issues I've had with a Spydie were resolved after disassembly and reassembly of the knife. I have been so happy with my s35VN Tenacious.
 
Thanks for sharing.
Dergyll said:
I'm sorry to hear that friend.

My first few spydercos all came very well tuned (millitary, sage 5, para 3 max), years ago. My most recent spydercos were very stiff as well, including shaman, endura, para 3 cruwear (I was able to handle 2 of these, mine was pretty off centered and stiff, my buddy's was REALLY stiff).

The shaman was the only one that "broke in" after use and OCD (obsessive compulsive deployment), the rest I tuned.

In comparison, I have never gotten anything from Civivi or Bestech that felt this bad out the box. Benchmade, forget about it. Old Benchmades that I've got were awesome and sharp! Recent years I can barely get them to cut paper well. I've touched all of them up on my white sharpmaker stones.

Ironically, the two 8cr tenacious I've gotten recently (1 new 1 used) were both easy to flick and not too stiff...after I worked lube in haha. Tenacious makes this weird grinding noise when I flick open, not sure if anyone else experiences this.

Edit: forgot to mention, you can get it manually tuned by sending it in to spyderco warranty, they'll fix alot of things on the knife. They have one of the faster turnaround times and are quite good.
Click to expand...
Dergyll said:
I'm sorry to hear that friend.

My first few spydercos all came very well tuned (millitary, sage 5, para 3 max), years ago. My most recent spydercos were very stiff as well, including shaman, endura, para 3 cruwear (I was able to handle 2 of these, mine was pretty off centered and stiff, my buddy's was REALLY stiff).

The shaman was the only one that "broke in" after use and OCD (obsessive compulsive deployment), the rest I tuned.

In comparison, I have never gotten anything from Civivi or Bestech that felt this bad out the box. Benchmade, forget about it. Old Benchmades that I've got were awesome and sharp! Recent years I can barely get them to cut paper well. I've touched all of them up on my white sharpmaker stones.

Ironically, the two 8cr tenacious I've gotten recently (1 new 1 used) were both easy to flick and not too stiff...after I worked lube in haha. Tenacious makes this weird grinding noise when I flick open, not sure if anyone else experiences this.

Edit: forgot to mention, you can get it manually tuned by sending it in to spyderco warranty, they'll fix alot of things on the knife. They have one of the faster turnaround times and are quite good.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing.
Overall the cheap Persistence was better fit and finish than the expensive Tenacious s35vn.

I’m a bit shocked to hear your experiences with even more expensive models.

Offering a tuning service is great, but also seems to point to some flaw(?) in manufacturing or QC.

And, unfortunately, it doesn’t help those who live overseas (like me) and can’t send folders to Spyderco.

I still have and treasure a BM Mini Grip in yellow. (Treasure= not use.) It’s probably 10 years old. Perfect action, centering, grind, everything. I thought about getting another one as a user… but your comments made me think. (Thank you.) Handle before buying has to be mandatory, I guess.

I just want one decent knife that will last me the rest of my life. (25 years will suffice. Hahaha)
 
David Mary said:
T TakaBKK it's too bad you didn't post here about this before selling. Most times tuning issues I've had with a Spydie were resolved after disassembly and reassembly of the knife. I have been so happy with my s35VN Tenacious.
Click to expand...
I thought about asking. But I’m really a newbie when it comes to disassembly and worried that I might make things worse (or damaged). The only thing I’ve ever done is to swap a pocket clip.

An honest question: is it too much to ask of a production folder not to require disassembly for tuning and maintenance?

Or, does that mean I have to go Buck 112/ SAK/ etc if I want to avoid disassembly?

Thanks.
 
If it's a new knife: checking it for leftover construction debris is a good idea...
 
I hate to say it, but if you want the absolute best QCs right now, you might have to go overseas like WE...domestic manufacturers are losing their touch (and I hope they realize it).

I would also mention that you shouldn't get discouraged by that knife. Theres a reason why companies like Spyderco are so popular; they're usually pretty good. And when they're not, they're quick to take care of issues. I think overseas customers unfortunately get the shorter end of the stick here.

Or, you can pay up to the next bracket and get Reeves, Hinderers, etc. Or go Russian lol, their knives are pretty spotless right now.

Orrrrr...buy one from the exchange that you can see ;)
 
TakaBKK said:
An honest question: is it too much to ask of a production folder not to require disassembly for tuning and maintenance?
Click to expand...

I think you're asking the wrong guy. I have not only disassembled, but modified every knife I have owned, from every manufacturer because I always find a way that it can be better (for me).
 
TakaBKK said:
Hello All.

Thank you for the advice and info you shared to help me make a decision.

I bought the s35vn… I really tried to like it (nice blade shape, nice handle shape, nice handle material)… but I had to sell it.

Why?
1) My previous ‘cheap’ Persistence had a perfect grind all the way to the ricasso. I was disappointed that a more expensive knife couldn’t get this right. Not the main reason, but it compounded with 2).

2) The action was very stiff; impossible to flip. Loosening the pivot screw, even minutely, made the blade wander horribly off-center. Also, it wasn’t even as nicely centered to begin with as my old Persistence.

Spyderco fans please don’t hate me, but this has put me off Spyderco for a while. Lesson learned: handle before buying (if possible) or be willing to sell at discount if not pleased with the product.
Click to expand...

So I also picked up the S35VN Tenacious, largely due to my participation in this thread. I ran into something like your second issue. In dialing the pivot tension, the only acceptable spot in balancing action versus blade play just happened to put the blade almost up against the scale opposite the lock bar. Coincidentally, I have an 8Cr13Mov Tenacious that balances way over towards the other scale.

Taking this knife apart was a major pain. I had to adjust and re-adjust the body screws in pursuit of slightly better centering. The screws are T6 and soft. I had to go at them from both sides as some spun freely. Then one bound up and I almost wasn't able to free it... I've been spoiled by knives that come apart and go back together again quickly, without alignment issues, on decent T8 hardware.

My very next project after that has been testing Skiff bearings in different knives. It really makes me appreciate being able to just take a knife apart and slap it back together again without worry or running into complications. So far, I've tried them with Petrified Fish, Sencut, Civivi, and WE knives. Each one was a walk in the park, ending with the blade right in the center on the first try. While I hang on to the 8Cr13Mov version for dirty beater tasks, the S35VN version has already found a new home.
 
Chronovore Chronovore sorry to hear you had that experience with your s35VN Tenacious. But it is nice to see that you took the time to give it a chance.
 
David Mary said:
I think you're asking the wrong guy. I have not only disassembled, but modified every knife I have owned, from every manufacturer because I always find a way that it can be better (for me).
Click to expand...

I take apart every knife I can. I don't always mod them but with Spyderco, I can usually find something to do.

For instance, my Sage 5 just took another step towards comfort...

yj26qcU.jpg
 
Dergyll said:
I hate to say it, but if you want the absolute best QCs right now, you might have to go overseas like WE...domestic manufacturers are losing their touch (and I hope they realize it).

I would also mention that you shouldn't get discouraged by that knife. Theres a reason why companies like Spyderco are so popular; they're usually pretty good. And when they're not, they're quick to take care of issues. I think overseas customers unfortunately get the shorter end of the stick here.

Or, you can pay up to the next bracket and get Reeves, Hinderers, etc. Or go Russian lol, their knives are pretty spotless right now.

Orrrrr...buy one from the exchange that you can see ;)
Click to expand...
Actually, there are quite a few WEs available here. Proximity to China, maybe? ;)
I never thought they were a brand that would offer quality for years to last. Might be worth a look-see. Thanks.

I think CRK or Hinderer are beyond my means for a knife.
 
Chronovore said:
So I also picked up the S35VN Tenacious, largely due to my participation in this thread. I ran into something like your second issue. In dialing the pivot tension, the only acceptable spot in balancing action versus blade play just happened to put the blade almost up against the scale opposite the lock bar. Coincidentally, I have an 8Cr13Mov Tenacious that balances way over towards the other scale.

Taking this knife apart was a major pain. I had to adjust and re-adjust the body screws in pursuit of slightly better centering. The screws are T6 and soft. I had to go at them from both sides as some spun freely. Then one bound up and I almost wasn't able to free it... I've been spoiled by knives that come apart and go back together again quickly, without alignment issues, on decent T8 hardware.

My very next project after that has been testing Skiff bearings in different knives. It really makes me appreciate being able to just take a knife apart and slap it back together again without worry or running into complications. So far, I've tried them with Petrified Fish, Sencut, Civivi, and WE knives. Each one was a walk in the park, ending with the blade right in the center on the first try. While I hang on to the 8Cr13Mov version for dirty beater tasks, the S35VN version has already found a new home.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing your experiences. With mine the blade was centered (acceptably) only when the pivot was tight. And I mean tight. It was an effort with the thumb tying to open it. Flipping, impossible. Even a slight loosening and the blade moved right. A flip-easy tension and the blade would have scratched the right side.
Too bad you had the same issues as me.
 
David Mary said:
Chronovore Chronovore sorry to hear you had that experience with your s35VN Tenacious. But it is nice to see that you took the time to give it a chance.
Click to expand...
Much thought and anticipation had gone into buying it. I so wanted it to be my forever-only knife. Too bad it didn’t work out in the end.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top