Test Busse BM V Talonite Custom 9"

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The General

The General

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Jun 6, 2000
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I am going to be testing a Talonite 'trail knife' designed by me against a number of other blades. Anyone willing to loan or donate (very poor choice of words on my part) a BM for testing? This will be posted on the group. Steve Rollert is making it and Tom Waltz paying and providing the Talonite.

Thanks all

P.S. any suggestions for other knives you would like to see tested as well?

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tenneson
Ranger motto

[This message has been edited by The General (edited 11-16-2000).]
 
i will not give my bm up but you should test the cold steel tril master the marbles 9incher an a randle made bowie

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after the take our guns away they're comin after our knives
 
I recommend including the RTAK knife from Newt Livesay (Wicked Knife Company) in 1095 steel.

It is about the same size as the Cold Steel Trailmaster but with very different blade geometry. I am assuming that you'll be using the CarbonV version of the TM. By including the CS and Livesay blades you get a baseline with both a cutter/slicer and a chopper.

Stay sharp,
Greg
 
I'd like to see a big shootout with all the knives mentioned above. I'd also like to see both Battle Mistress versions in the competition (the original clip pointed, straight handled model and the new drop point, ergo handled model) as well as a Busse Basic #9. And if you can procure one, why not also test an equivilent sized Mad Dog? If you're going to test Talonite vs. INFI vs. Carbon V vs. A2, why not throw some Starret alloy into the ring?

Just my $.02, but man that sure would be the mother of all big blade competitions.

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I DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE A COMMON MAN

"It is my right to be uncommon...if I can; I seek opportunity...not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stole calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud, and unafraid; to think and act for myself; enjoy the benefits of my creations and to face the world boldly and say,
This I have done, and this is what it means to be an American."

--Dean Alfrange

[This message has been edited by X-Head (edited 11-09-2000).]
 
Yes that sounds fanstasic. I am without affiliation, I am independant and willing to test fully and fairly. However I am not in a fiscal position to buy all those knives. Any suggestions on how to get those knives, without looking like some low life after a free knife? Tom Walz is very very kindly submiting a free knife. Others have been far less eager to help (again this could look bad if you wanted to make a point. I chose poorly my choice of words. I wanted to show how generous Tom had been, nothing else and quite a few companies have shown some interest, I spoke in haste and will repent in leisure). I will not name them, but one company specialises in Ti knives.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes.

Thanks all

P.S. I think we all need to see a fresh and not dry review in real world situations as well as simulated tests.

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tenneson
Ranger motto

[This message has been edited by The General (edited 11-16-2000).]

[This message has been edited by The General (edited 11-16-2000).]
 
Hi all
I might be interested in loaning my bm-e for the test. Email me about it.
Luke
 
Thanks for the kind offer Luke. I was hoping Busse would make the offer, but if a collector is willing to make his knife available for a test, then that is fantastic. I know there is along waiting list for Busse knives. It is very kind of you. Hey Busse how about loaning me a drop point BM?
wink.gif
Then I won`t have to worry about Luke`s knife getting damaged. Even though I have no intention of testing to the point of destruction like some. Or mistreating any knife, ever!

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tenneson
Ranger motto
 
I can already predict the winner of the knives mentioned above, the Busse in INFI! Talonite isnt really suited for big knives that are goint to do a lot of hard impacts on the edge, the various Busse's, Beckers, Customs etc in a good quality steel with a good heat treat are going to do better in that roll. I have made big choppers out of Talonite and was dissapointed in the results and have never reccomended it for big choppers. It will hold up with the right geometry, just not as good as a good steel knife!

Jerry, when do I get a hunk of INFI to make my personal choppper out of?
biggrin.gif


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www.simonichknives.com
 
Chopping is only a part of the test. There are many more aspects to consider. Talonite will not rust, and as I am told will hold a workable edge far far longer than many steels out there. This I will test. I am interested in a multi aspect knife, not a single function blade. Rob I know your reputation and have seen your work. I respect your view greatly. However I think Talonite can perform as a trail knife given careful thought and design. I will find out one way or the other! If it works, great! If not... Well I am not a going to lie.

Your comments are helpful.

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tenneson
Ranger motto
 
Rob :

[Talonite]

It will hold up with the right geometry, just not as good as a good steel knife!
Click to expand...

Ron Hood has described his Talonite Kanji as having a much more durable edge under very hard use (including cutting metals etc. ) than a Busse Combat Mean Street. To get specific, after similar amounts of work the Kanji could still cut freehanging paper and needed a quick steeling to restore it to optimal performance whereas the Busse blade took an hour of sharpening.

Now based on this, if the edge is resisting dents, chips and rolls so much stronger than the Busse Combat blade (wear wouldn't take an hour to restore), which is a rather high standard for "heavy duty blades" a big Talonite blade should clearly outperform a Busse Battle Mistress.

-Cliff

 
I intend to find out what the truth is, not the hype or the tripe. Many say different things, many have a clear agenda. I do not, now or ever. I want to see what knives perform well at different tasks. Just like cars, one may not be the best at one task, or one may do all reasonably well. I will test and test and test, but in real life use, not a lab coat will be seen!

For those interested, I have A-levels in Psychology, Law, Politics, General Studies and English. I am also a final year reading English at Bangor Uni. I am aware of control methods thanks to Psychology and know how to perform a fair test. I will be involving family and friends in the testing for impartiality from non knife nuts. They have no concept of price or any expectations. They will be the control factor. With my Politics qualification I know what an agenda is. I might note that I have an independently tested I.Q. of 172 and got the highest results in North Wales. I was in the paper and made the national and local news. Still enough of that, we are all equals here. Friends to the last!

With respect

W.A.

W.A.

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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tenneson
Ranger motto
 
Uncle Screwtape, it sounds like one of them big ones, I think they call them Tuba's! But I got an F in music and have an 8th grade education so I could be wrong!
biggrin.gif


Cliff, I asked you a question you have never had the backbone to answer, and will not answer your questions till you answer mine.

I appologise to Jerry and Andy for the above paragraph, but just am fed up with the antics and baiting that goes on. Nuf said on the subject, I will post no more in this thread!

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www.simonichknives.com
 
General-

Since you are obviously brilliant, I am sure ou know that Rob Simonich has built more trail knives out of talonite than anyone else on the planet.

Maybe you should listen to him before you do your big test?

Cliff, sice you are also obviously brilliant,
maybe you could tell us the outcome of this test in advance?

A.L
 
Anthony :

[referring to Rob]

Maybe you should listen to him before you do your big test?
Click to expand...

He did say he was trying to do an unbiased piece of work. In general, independent reviewers don't ask the makers of the product how it should be evaluated, that kind of defeats the purpose. You might as well just let them do the review themselves.

tell us the outcome of this test
Click to expand...

Kind of difficult since I don't know the blades being used nor the work to be done.

Rob, that wasn't a question.

-Cliff
 
Glad someone was paying attention cifac88!
biggrin.gif
.

I do not presume to know more than Rob, but a fair test is a fair test. Thanks Cliff. As to playing my own trumpet I am showing credentials, that’s all. I know more than some and far less than many. But I know how to be polite and not to start slanging matches that Americans have a reputation of doing on the net. Sorry to tar all with the same brush, but the rest of the world perceives most Americans as aggressive on the net. Anthony Lombardo you might want to know that Talonite is capitalized as it is an actual name, also you has a 'y' in it and since has an 'n' in it.
tongue.gif
I did not start this! BTW Talonite ought to have (r) after it, but I sometimes forget, sorry all!

My point being this, comments like that do not help you or me. I apologise in advance for joining this boorish slanging match.

It is immature and drives many people away from groups like this.

I do not see any reason why Rob would criticise his product without good reason, I do not intend to cut more than wood. I doubt wood will damage a Talonite blade. It cannot be that weak? Can it? We will see. I might add I have had quite a positive response from knife companies in submitting test blades. Anne Reeve and a Project 1 for example.

Light hearted and with respect.

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

[This message has been edited by The General (edited 11-16-2000).]
 
General:

I doubt wood will damage a Talonite blade. It cannot be that weak? Can it?
Click to expand...


I have broken a fair share of blades simply chopping wood. I would rate it as one of the toughest things a blade can be asked to do, depending on the swing technique, the power of the user and the type of wood.

As an example, I have used an Ontario machete to dig many holes, chop up sod, cut through a concrete weight (20 lbs, if anyone cares), chop though mild steel rods, etc., all with little or no harm to the blade. Some minor flattening and rolling, but nothing serious. The same blade (two of them actually) broke apart easily limbing out some hardwood trees.

I had a Talonite blade some time ago, currently it is out on loan, things that I could do very easily with steel blades, dig a hole through a 2x4 for example, I had to be very careful with when using the Talonite one as yes it is very weak. Its tensile strength is about 60% for example of Missions A2 which is actually on the soft side at around 56 RC.

I currently have on loan a forged Talonite blade (owned by Will York), and the edge rolls quite readily during chopping. It doesn't suffer gross damage, but this would be very odd indeed because it is so light (300 g) and therefore the impact energies are far too low.

One thing to note is that the Cobalt alloys like Stellite and Talonite have a significant advantage because of their ductility and high wear resistance especially against metals as they have a high resistance to galling. You should include some work of this kind to show the advantages they have over steels.

One other thing is of course the high resistance to corrosion. For example do say a 24 hour soak in salt water and repeat a cutting test to show how the Talonite will be uneffected but the steel alloys will all suffer significant edge loss due to fracture (rust weakining) very quickly. Many stainless blade steels like ATS-34, VG-10 etc., do not handle this well at all.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 11-16-2000).]
 
Cliff-what good does forging Talonite(r) do?

Does it make it stronger or weaker? Better or worse?

Can you compare a forged Talonite(r) blade to a stock-removal blade?


(General, are you happy, I capitalized it?)


APL-American Boor.
 
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