Testing for J.S. or M.S.? Any questions?

I've been really appreciating this discussion. Thanks!

I don't know any of the particulars about the in-between-the-lines expectations or "requirements" of presentation knives for the JS test, but observed the following...

Deitrich's cool little set of bird/trout/paring type knives passed the JS test at Blade Jun 2012. Shortly thereafter a "Journeyman Smith Testing Rule Change For Presentation Knives" statement was posted on the ABS Forums.

"Effective immediately, applicants for the JS stamp must have a minimum of two knives among the five submitted with at least 6 inch blades, and all of the knives submitted must have guards/bolsters."

James Batson, ABS Chairman
August 28, 2012​

Not sure if that sheds any light on anything or not—or if the two events were related or not—but it kind of seemed like they might of been. (How's that for soft peddling?!) ;)

All the best, Phil
 
We really need to read the guidelines found on the ABS website to get an idea of what is expected. Here is the link,

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/u...elines for JS and MS Candidates 4-24-2010.pdf

and here

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=172

and MS is found here

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/index.php?section=pages&id=178

Journeyman is expected to submit knives that are "very good to excellent". Master Smith applicants are expected to submit knives that are "excellent" to "superlative".


Here is a series of JS knives that passed the judging.

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/Journeyman Candidate Knives.pdf
You will see a pattern in these knives.


Phil, I would suggest that the rules change in the judging did in fact result from the submission of those knives. I have been told that the JS judges want to see at least one Bowie style knife and probably one hunter style as well. As far as MS is concerned, I have come to the conclusion that in addition to the quillion dagger a bowie is expected though not specifically required. If I do not submit a bowie it will give the judges a reason to look even harder at my other knives. These are just deductions that I have made from years of observation of those who passed the testing and a few who have not.
 
Last edited:
That ABS Journeyman PFD is a very cool page, it's fun to see several of my favorite makers doing variations on a theme.
I only saw one integral on there- are they not considered a good submission, or are there just not so many people that make them?
Is it a good idea to assume that the part that makes it an integral qualifies as a "bolster?"
 
I think that the ABS gives more than adequate information on the requirements and expectations of the JS process. I feel confident that any knife maker that learns the requirements, has the necessary skill and attention to detail and gets feedback and a thumbs up from a few current MS should be pretty confident entering the test.

Although the MS rules are straight forward, I think that the MS test seems to have a level of ambiguity to it. Evidence is right in this thread with Mr Rader, and I have seen it by several other Master Smiths that have posted critiques, or critiques I have heard at hammer ins. I have seen it enough to say that it seems fairly common. I would be upset if I failed a MS test after hundreds of hours of time and thousands of dollars in time and travel, because a judge thought my handle was a little too long, or that I used my own hybrid design instead of the more common designs, or that I used copper in the guard instead of ss...ect.

I would also like to see examples of things that caused a failed MS test. I know the judges would have to agree to make their votes known and that the knife maker would have to allow their "flaws" to be shown but I think it would be a learning experience for all of us interested in the test but unsure what exactly to make or not make.


Finally I am not sure if the fingernail test or using a mirror on the guard trick are actually used by the judges but I would hope not. I interpret the idea that they are not allowed to use measuring devices because all objects have variations and if they were allowed to use calipers, ect the ABS would have to specify the amount of allowed variation. I think it is more the idea that if it looks correct to the naked eye it is. If a judge has to use one of the tricks above to determine that something is off, then it is kind of going against that concept. I do thing they are great tips for someone making knives for the test though.

All that said, I have not taken either test, so most of this is just my impressions or opinions I have formed over the years.
 
elementfe said:
That ABS Journeyman PFD is a very cool page, it's fun to see several of my favorite makers doing variations on a theme.
I only saw one integral on there- are they not considered a good submission, or are there just not so many people that make them?
Is it a good idea to assume that the part that makes it an integral qualifies as a "bolster?"
Click to expand...
Not sure if it's considered a good submission choice, but I did ask that exact question in the ABS thread I referred to. I was informed that yes, integral bolsters are considered bolsters.
 
Last edited:
Hi guys,

12345678910 pointed me to this thread. I've put together an album of ALL the JS (and MS) knives I've shot at Blade since 2008.

All of them were passing knives. You can get a nice idea of what has worked in the past.

Good luck to any and all of you. I hope this helps:

ABS MS/JS Test Knives photo album

Thanks for stepping up, Michael. Good work!

Jim
 
Thanks Jim - that was very kind of you.
Certain parts of this thread are very good for guys going the J.S., M.S. route and this kind of info will be very helpful.
Most of my stuff... not so much :-)

Here are my M.S. test knives:
mastersmith%20set.jpg


These are my J.S. test knives:
js%20set.jpg

(two were alternates)
 
Last edited:
Hmm. They look fine on my 'puter when viewing this thread. I have them hosted from my own website... well, I'm kinda dumb on this stuff. That's the way it goes.
 
Thank you Coop for all of your wonderful pictures of such great artistry and Mr Rader for all your valuable information and insight.

Been looking and following this thread very close to see if this is something I want to achieve in the future.
But a question has come especially after looking more closely at Coop's pixs, Why are all the submissions hidden tangs ??
Out of the 200 knives shown, I don't see 1 scaled handle. Is there a reason for this? or a requirement?
 
mastersmith%20set.jpg

js%20set.jpg


How's that, Michael?
I like that you tested for MS with an integral kitchen knife! Nice.
 
Last edited:
Hi Everyone,

I have been studying this thread for the past 9 months as Ive worked on both my performance knife and Atlanta submission knives. It has been invaluable to me and I greatly appreciate all of the comments. Thank you Michael for establishing such an informative thread.

My knives are nearly complete save for some final tweaking hence my post.

1 ... my plunge/choil area is within 1/64" of one another ... I will be tightening them up with some methods describe by Nick Wheeler and Kyle Royer in their respective video tutorials. How do you guys get them so tight?

2 ... what grit should I do my final pull strokes on the blades ... 400, 500, 600, 800, and should i just progressively do straight ricasso to tip pulls with successively higher grits?


Thanks for any input,

Bobby
 
bobby, thanks for reviving this. i would never have seen it. i only read the first 3 pages and i am very inspired !
 
My nerves are killing me, I have 4 knives done, working on the handle for #5 this weekend.

my question is - how much scotch can I have to settle my nerves on Friday morning?????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top