Testing: What I would Like To See

[Alberta Ed]

I use a rigorous scientific process (whittling a stick of seasoned pine) in a certified lab (my garage) to test new knives.

 

[VorpelSword]

What-ever . . .

Whatever is possible . . .it would be nice to get good information. There is a lot of emotion tied up in this field of interest.

It is my belief that some makers are getting by on reputation, while others are getting by on hype.

It would be helpful to see serious, scientifically rigorous testing done by an organization that isn't in some way beholden to the industry. Testing done on comparable knives . . .side-by-side-by-side and category by catagory.

Excuse my wishful thinking.

 

[Quiet]

OK , except knives can fail in ways and circumstances that could easily cause injuries / death .

I had a Al Mar Pathfinder fracture at the hilt and fly off like a spear . Just chopping at some hardwood saplings . Thankfully nobody in the way .

In a survival type situation , just a failure of your knife to function properly , could contribute to the failure to survive .

If all a knife needs to do is sit for photos , fondling , youtube unboxing , and Barbie doll pimping ...different story .

Testing to the failure point is (or was) commonly done for all kinds of mundane products , just to assure a long service life . Quality assurance by design spec .

Doesn't have to be a safety , life or death matter .

Aren't those stick tang knives?

It also bears mentioning that very few knife makers guarantee that their knives will survive horrendous abuse. Others, like ESEE state that they'll honor a replacement if their knife breaks while the user is doing something stupid, but that they'll get to call you out on their site over it. That tells me a clearer story than "Watch some idiot beat a knife into brick, steel, car parts, etc., all of which are things NO knife was ever designed to do".

 

[jbmonkey]

What-ever . . .

Whatever is possible . . .it would be nice to get good information. There is a lot of emotion tied up in this field of interest.

It is my belief that some makers are getting by on reputation, while others are getting by on hype.

It would be helpful to see serious, scientifically rigorous testing done by an organization that isn't in some way beholden to the industry. Testing done on comparable knives . . .side-by-side-by-side and category by catagory.

Excuse my wishful thinking.

who's getting by on reputation and who's getting by on hype? sounds like ya got some lists made already

 

[mitchnola]

What-ever . . .

Whatever is possible . . .it would be nice to get good information. There is a lot of emotion tied up in this field of interest.

It is my belief that some makers are getting by on reputation, while others are getting by on hype.

It would be helpful to see serious, scientifically rigorous testing done by an organization that isn't in some way beholden to the industry. Testing done on comparable knives . . .side-by-side-by-side and category by catagory.

Excuse my wishful thinking.

I think if you were taking applications for said laboratory everyone here would think this was a wonderful idea.

 

[Quiet]

What-ever . . .

Whatever is possible . . .it would be nice to get good information. There is a lot of emotion tied up in this field of interest.

It is my belief that some makers are getting by on reputation, while others are getting by on hype.

It would be helpful to see serious, scientifically rigorous testing done by an organization that isn't in some way beholden to the industry. Testing done on comparable knives . . .side-by-side-by-side and category by catagory.

Excuse my wishful thinking.

That already exists. There already are cutting contests at virtually every knife show where contestants use knives from different makers doing things like cutting different materials (that would be appropriate to use a knife on). BladeSports is a thing. It tests edge retention, knife cutting skills, edge grinds, comfort of handle design, etc.

What you seem to want is "I want to see how long a knife can hold up to things they weren't designed to do before they break, just in case I decide to smash a bunch of cinder blocks." In fact, it's this stupidity that has led to so many knives being super thick bladed, and thick behind the edge as makers try to "stupid people-proof" their product, because they know that somebody on Youtube is going to try to destroy their product, and then low information viewers will see it and think "That company makes bad products", which nearly ten times out of ten, isn't the case.

Sledgehammers, froes, axes, prybars, there are quality examples of all of these things that are far cheaper than many fixed blades, sooooooo......?

 

[VorpelSword]

who's getting by on reputation and who's getting by on hype? sounds like ya got some lists made already

Most folks in the knife world have some bias. I am no different. My opinions do not matter in this thread. /the purpose or intent of my suggestion is to get real data that is as unbiased and neutral as is possible in an imperfect world.

When shopping for a serious "combat" knife for an Iraq bound family member, one that I considered was the Gerber Mk-II. Many Viet Nam era vets swear by them. I learned that the stub and only extended about a third of the way into the handle and passed them by. Later on, after it didn't matter any more, I ran across a photo of a Gerber Mk-Iik clamped in a vise with a hefty dude standing on the handle . . .So perhaps my negative bias was unfounded in fact.

I am thinking we need to have that sort of information out there; regular performance testing and abusive hard use testing. . . .and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[VorpelSword]

That already exists. There already are cutting contests at virtually every knife show where contestants use knives from different makers doing things like cutting different materials (that would be appropriate to use a knife on). BladeSports is a thing. It tests edge retention, knife cutting skills, edge grinds, comfort of handle design, etc.

What you seem to want is "I want to see how long a knife can hold up to things they weren't designed to do before they break, just in case I decide to smash a bunch of cinder blocks." In fact, it's this stupidity that has led to so many knives being super thick bladed, and thick behind the edge as makers try to "stupid people-proof" their product, because they know that somebody on Youtube is going to try to destroy their product, and then low information viewers will see it and think "That company makes bad products", which nearly ten times out of ten, isn't the case.

Sledgehammers, froes, axes, prybars, there are quality examples of all of these things that are far cheaper than many fixed blades, sooooooo......?

Well if you are a first responder, Police, Fire, EMT, Rescue jumper etc . . .you mightt want to know about what a knife might be capable of en extremis. Plenty of bushcrafters Big game guides and survivalists in the civilian world too. Twenty years or more ago, I read a testimonial from a young war fighter who said he had used his two premium makers folders to climb a wall of mud brick during a fire fight somewhere. In a peacetime civilian setting, some guy used a multitool to self-amputuate his trapped orearm in a wilderness setting where it was do-it-or die. These are merely two are real-world reasons to do routine performance testing as well as extreme limit testing and present the results in comprehensive tables or charts as is done with knife steels.

We have charts comparing the raw properties of knife steels. Why not have other concise comparisons of the performance of the knives as they come to us in the open market? /why not have a direct comparison between category equivalent models fro Spiderco , Buck and Benchmade . . .and the other makers of folding knives? Why not have a concise comparison of category equivalent fixed blades from across the industry?

Whatever ax I have to grind is open to adjustment as I have written above concerning the Gerber Mk-2.

I think the industry and the consumer world needs something like this.

 

[Quiet]

Well if you are a first responder, Police, Fire, EMT, Rescue jumper etc . . .you mightt want to know about what a knife might be capable of en extremis. Plenty of bushcrafters Big game guides and survivalists in the civilian world too. Twenty years or more ago, I read a testimonial from a young war fighter who said he had used his two premium makers folders to climb a wall of mud brick during a fire fight somewhere. In a peacetime civilian setting, some guy used a multitool to self-amputuate his trapped orearm in a wilderness setting where it was do-it-or die. These are merely two are real-world reasons to do routine performance testing as well as extreme limit testing and present the results in comprehensive tables or charts as is done with knife steels.

We have charts comparing the raw properties of knife steels. Why not have other concise comparisons of the performance of the knives as they come to us in the open market? /why not have a direct comparison between category equivalent models fro Spiderco , Buck and Benchmade . . .and the other makers of folding knives? Why not have a concise comparison of category equivalent fixed blades from across the industry?

Whatever ax I have to grind is open to adjustment as I have written above concerning the Gerber Mk-2.

I think the industry and the consumer world needs something like this.

Sorry, still a fantasy. A knife is not a sledgehammer, crowbar, axe, or froe. Professionals will use the proper tools for the job. Also, bushcrafters, "big game guides", and survivalists, if they want to see knife destruction videos, are as guilty of believing your fantasy scenarios as you are.

Secondly, I'm calling BS on the whole "I needed my folders to climb a mud wall" story. I'd love to see a credible source for that. Also, also, oh man, are you actually attempting to use Aron Lee Ralston (!!!) as a rationale for your fantasies? DUDE CUT HIS ARM OFF WITH A CHEAP NO-NAME MULTITOOL. I wonder how well one of those would fare being smashed into a brick or car hood!!! For the record, Mr. Ralston could have extricated himself with any decent pocket knife. He didn't need a knife that is made to survive being batoned through a rock.

I really wish you would stop using terminology in an attempt to make YouTube destruction videos where some idiot beats a perfectly good tool into pieces, out to be some sort of quality scientific endeavor. "Well, we need concise comparisons..." No, we don't. People who have End-of-Days fantasies where they use a knife to chop down a building, or cut a car in half are not living in the real world. It's why we make fun of them. There are only a few companies who make claims that their knives can truly withstand anything. Go buy one of their knives and just be happy. Hey, you can even find some of them in DLC so you won't alert any sentries to your position, so it's a win win!

But hey, if you still want all these things in the name of Redneck Science (TM), then front the cash. Buy, and destroy all the knives you want to see destroyed on camera. I mean, I understand why you don't.

1. You don't want to stupidly destroy knives you paid for, you just want others to do it with their knives, or knives they were able to get a follower to donate.
2. There's no practical realworld use to tie any of these destruction tests to. (this is the crux of it) so any pretense of scientific knowledge or the generation of "comprehensive tables or charts" is useless. LOL
3. There's nothing scientific about destruction testing a tool made by hand, wherein any number of variables could come into play where two fixed blades from a maker are tested and one survives and the other doesn't. So, what scientific knowledge does that yield for the Youtube follower? "Better hope you get one of the good ones"?

So, there is literally no upside for companies like Benchmade, Buck, Spyderco, ESEE, Gerber, or whoever else to submit fixed blades for abuse and destruction, especially when none of them have claimed that their tools are designed to withstand that. Why, so they can get smacktalked when they failto do something they weren't designed to do? This is something I have seen in Joe X's video comments, by the way. Poor critical thinkers trashing some company's knife because it broke when that moron beat it against a metal pole for ten minutes and the blade snapped.

 

[Danke42]

If the review isn't doing this I just can't watch it.

 

[jbmonkey]

Sorry, still a fantasy. A knife is not a sledgehammer, crowbar, axe, or froe. Professionals will use the proper tools for the job. Also, bushcrafters, "big game guides", and survivalists, if they want to see knife destruction videos, are as guilty of believing your fantasy scenarios as you are.

Secondly, I'm calling BS on the whole "I needed my folders to climb a mud wall" story. I'd love to see a credible source for that. Also, also, oh man, are you actually attempting to use Aron Lee Ralston (!!!) as a rationale for your fantasies? DUDE CUT HIS ARM OFF WITH A CHEAP NO-NAME MULTITOOL. I wonder how well one of those would fare being smashed into a brick or car hood!!! For the record, Mr. Ralston could have extricated himself with any decent pocket knife. He didn't need a knife that is made to survive being batoned through a rock.

I really wish you would stop using terminology in an attempt to make YouTube destruction videos where some idiot beats a perfectly good tool into pieces, out to be some sort of quality scientific endeavor. "Well, we need concise comparisons..." No, we don't. People who have End-of-Days fantasies where they use a knife to chop down a building, or cut a car in half are not living in the real world. It's why we make fun of them. There are only a few companies who make claims that their knives can truly withstand anything. Go buy one of their knives and just be happy. Hey, you can even find some of them in DLC so you won't alert any sentries to your position, so it's a win win!

But hey, if you still want all these things in the name of Redneck Science (TM), then front the cash. Buy, and destroy all the knives you want to see destroyed on camera. I mean, I understand why you don't.

1. You don't want to stupidly destroy knives you paid for, you just want others to do it with their knives, or knives they were able to get a follower to donate.
2. There's no practical realworld use to tie any of these destruction tests to. (this is the crux of it) so any pretense of scientific knowledge or the generation of "comprehensive tables or charts" is useless. LOL
3. There's nothing scientific about destruction testing a tool made by hand, wherein any number of variables could come into play where two fixed blades from a maker are tested and one survives and the other doesn't. So, what scientific knowledge does that yield for the Youtube follower? "Better hope you get one of the good ones"?

So, there is literally no upside for companies like Benchmade, Buck, Spyderco, ESEE, Gerber, or whoever else to submit fixed blades for abuse and destruction, especially when none of them have claimed that their tools are designed to withstand that. Why, so they can get smacktalked when they failto do something they weren't designed to do? This is something I have seen in Joe X's video comments, by the way. Poor critical thinkers trashing some company's knife because it broke when that moron beat it against a metal pole for ten minutes and the blade snapped.

there is a lot of mud walls out there and they do need to be climbed up with my knife.

I also need a pocket clip super tight and thick it can't be bent easily or at all. with scale texture under it so aggresive it requires one hand to hold my pants down to stop from giving myself a wedgie while the other hand tugs it out. so if I get inverted in my daily rappelling activities I dont lose my knife.

 

[Quiet]

there is a lot of mud walls out there and they do need to be climbed up with my knife.

I also need a pocket clip super tight and thick it can't be bent easily or at all. with scale texture under it so aggresive it requires one hand to hold my pants down to stop from giving myself a wedgie while the other hand tugs it out. so if I get inverted in my daily rappelling activities I dont lose my knife.

Not to mention, you never know when you'll need to be able to hook your pocket knife over a convenient guy wire using that pocket clip, so you can escape by zipline from the bad guy's mountain fortress down to the village in the valley. I mean, hey, this is a real thing that could totally happen, so I need my knives to be able to hold my body weight by the pocket clip during rapid descent. If they can't do that, they're trash and should stop pretending that "Sir, we never claimed that our knives cou..."they're able to be used as a zipline attachment, it's just shoddy. But at least now we have scientific proof!

 

[jbmonkey]

Not to mention, you never know when you'll need to be able to hook your pocket knife over a convenient guy wire using that pocket clip, so you can escape by zipline from the bad guy's mountain fortress down to the village in the valley. I mean, hey, this is a real thing that could totally happen, so I need my knives to be able to hold my body weight by the pocket clip during rapid descent. If they can't do that, they're trash and should stop pretending that "Sir, we never claimed that our knives cou..."they're able to be used as a zipline attachment, it's just shoddy. But at least now we have scientific proof!

we got the core of an 80s action movie script right there.....

 

[Blues]

there is a lot of mud walls out there and they do need to be climbed up with my knife.

I also need a pocket clip super tight and thick it can't be bent easily or at all. with scale texture under it so aggresive it requires one hand to hold my pants down to stop from giving myself a wedgie while the other hand tugs it out. so if I get inverted in my daily rappelling activities I dont lose my knife.

We want you on that wall...we need you on that wall!!!

 

[jbmonkey]

We want you on that wall...we need you on that wall!!!

I think im gonna use an ad10 to climb it......

 

[Blues]

I think im gonna use an ad10 to climb it......

The AD10 would cut clean through the wall and cleave it in half...like the parting of the Red Sea.

 

[jbmonkey]

David, I see ya in this thread.....I think folks should send their expensive knives to you and you test them and see how they'll do......id do it myself, but there are mud walls to be climbed........

 

[Blues]

David, I see ya in this thread.....I think folks should send their expensive knives to you and you test them and see how they'll do......id do it myself, but there are mud walls to be climbed........

Because it's there?

 

[jbmonkey]

Because it's there?

exactly

 

[David Mary]

David, I see ya in this thread.....I think folks should send their expensive knives to you and you test them and see how they'll do

Sorry boss, but....

I doubt they'd do it themselves. Most of them are elbows deep in trying to make a living, and if they're lucky, fulfilling orders