The $40 fighting utility folder - some surprises...

Joe just explained what I don't like about the KFF and pretty much all other CRKT linerlocks - unless a safety (if any) is turned on, they can come loose.

Sidenote: Cold Steel partially solved the "low-end linerlock" problem with the Scimitar, by radically raising the tip. On a hard target stab, it wants to put pressure on the spine instead of the lock. It's not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than anything CRKT has come up with to date.

But the Scimitar is significantly more than the KFF while at least in the instance I ran into, the Goddard Zytel wasn't.

My main point in posting was to make sure people knew there IS an alternative to the KFF. Last week, I for one would have assumed there was nothing else for around $40 worth owning in that defensive class and that's simply not the case.

Regarding Zytel: yep, it's light...but my former daily carry Vaquero Grande stood up to three years of heavy snapopens with no looseness. There's no reason a Zytel knife can't hold up, so long as you don't pry.

Jim
 
Originally posted by Jim March:

Last week, I for one would have assumed there was nothing else for around $40 worth owning in that defensive class and that's simply not the case.
Click to expand...

You're right Jim. However, I am one the people who believe the CRKT C/KFF is a good knife for the money...but there are others.

I think a lot of the attention the C/KFF has received is directly related to marketing. It is promoted, albeit implicitly, as a "fighting knife" and this appeals to the 18 to 35 crowd which just feasts on the macho image that the C/KFF conveys.

Pat Crawford, and Bob Kasper's names don't hurt sales either.

I still believe that knives are -- in many ways -- a subjective thing.
 
i have experienced that lockbacks like spyderco, or buck knives ect. with much use tend to loosen up. ive had three spyderco enduras that have had locks that loosened with use. also ive had two stainless handled delicas that have done the same. i would rather have a linerlock any day!
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
Not speaking for Jim, my impression with this particular knife's lock is that too many people have been reporting that it accidently releases with spine pressure (either a whack or palm on the spine). Joe
Click to expand...

This is certainly a good and important point. However, I was unaware of this flaw before posting so I really didn't know about anyone having problems. Since I've never used this knife for combat, I wouldn't really know, but in the same token, I doubt many, (if any) people put a Goddard through the same scrutinizing testing as the KFF went through as it is labeled as a "fighting folder."

Thanks for clearing up the problem with the KFF.



------------------
Dave
head.gif


My collection
 
I hate to say this, but I feel the negative feedback on the lockback is a simple exercise in pure hype. Let's face it, most of the world uses lockbacks every day. They pull out their Buck model 110 or one of the many close clones and go to work on all types of heavy trades related cutting. They do this every day, have been doing it for decades, and the vast majority of them manage to retain their fingers.

I just don't get it. What's the problem with lockbacks?

 
I'm with not2sharp here. What is the big problem with lockbacks? For years I used and abused a Buck 110 and a 112. My son now uses (doesn't abuse) the 112 and I still have the beat up, but still very tight, Buck 110. I am not bashing Spyderco as I have a few and am satisfied with them, but I have a problem with most linerlockers unless they are "overbuilt." The Spyderco linerlockers are built, but not overbuilt. I also do like the Zytel blade support and only one liner method of constriction that Spyderco employs. It may save a few dollars, if that, but really takes away from the structural integrity of the knife, especially as it relates to lateral rigidity over time and stress. Spyderso makes some nice designs but there are certainly more durable arrangements to be had for the same price range.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 10-10-2000).]
 
Just for the record, I purchased the 3" CRKT KFF after reading all of the great reviews about it on the forums. I am just not that impressed with the knife. If not for the LAWKS, I would not even pick it up. The liner lock barely engages the blade, and only then if you snap it open very fast and hard! It is too heavy to carry everyday IMO, and the aus-6 just won't hold an edge. I loved the look of this knife from all of the pictures I had seen here on the forums, and thought that it would become my new daily carry. Sadly though, that just isn't the case. If they made it with better steel for the blade and a better liner lock (one that doesn't need the LAWKS for safety) I would buy another. As it is my CRKT buying days are over. Which is sad as I really like the looks of the Lightfoot Urban Shark. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to continue to carry my Delica until something better comes along. Just my opinion. Another just for the record: I, too, have carried lockbacks for years and never had any problems with them.

Flinx

[This message has been edited by Flinx (edited 10-11-2000).]
 
If not for the tip up carry of the Goddard LW, I would carry it more often while in cycling attire. Repositioning of the hand is necessary after the intitial draw, except if you have particularly large paws. Defensive use folders in particular, all of mine are with tip up carry. I prefer and practice with them very diligently. To each their own.

As to the CRKT KFF, one "problem" was mentioned concerning inadvertent disengaging of its liner. When conversing with GHCA resident "knifehead" Kevin Gentile at a past show, he had confirmed with me that the latter models will be produced with a recessed liner. I do not know at present if they are rolling off the assembly lines with this modification. The safety lock is just not for me. If the liner lock is made properly (but keep in mind that the CRKT is a production piece) then there would be no need for it. Find a dealer where you can actually handle one before buying.

The Goddard LW is a fine piece all in all.

L8r,
Nakano
 
My two cents ...

1)Any knife that I carry for self defense must pass the blade spine whack test. My CRKT KFF passed with flying colors without the lawks engaged.

2) If I'm not mistaken, Cold Steel uses AUS6. So what's the problem there?

3) If the general consensus is against the CRKT KFF lock design then the custom KFF must
also be subject to all of the criticism.

4) The only drawback that I have found with
the CRKT KFF is that the LAWK thumb stud does manage to get caught up in my pocket
seam. That is something I would consider a
real issue when it comes to deployment.
 
Methinks there's a bit of Zytel-handled folder bashing afoot. Admittedly, most of mine (all Spydercos) were stiff when new, but working some Snake Oil or Break Free into 'em changed that. However, every Jess Horn Lightweight I ever handled was smooth as glass, & had a proper blade-to-handle ratio for inertial openings. I got rid of mine mainly for economic reasons, & have regretted it ever since.

Most Cold Steels I've handled were garbage, & ditto for Gerbers except for the early model EZ-Outs. The trade-off was putting up with substandard steel with abysmal heat treatment!

Believe me, it ain't the handle material; it's the fit & finish, which most manufacturers don't put into lower-priced blades, so that they remain lower-priced.

------------------
"It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority. By definition, there are already enough people to do that." --G.H. Hardy
 
Bash: Cold Steel uses AUS8, not AUS6.

AUS8 ain't all that bad...I'd rather have ATS34 personally, and I think ATS55 is only a very small step down from ATS34.

On the other hand, don't forget that the heat-treat matters too. SOG and Myerchin managed to get decent performance out of 440A, which is normally considered to be on the same level with AUS6. Both companies used 440A for it's marine corrosion resistance and not it's lower cost, which was probably why they focused on the heat-treat.

Last, the Goddard lightweight is the only Zytel folder in Spyderco's "Custom Collaborations" series. It's possible Spyderco put a little more QA in that Zytel piece than others? Either that or the relatively fat heavy blade (compared to the Endura) translates to better "flick feel".

In any case...it's a good piece
smile.gif
.

Jim
 
Jim,

I have to disagree with you on a couple of points. First off, the only thing it takes to get used to the LAWKS is practice. Every other fine motor skill we use when drawing a knife, becomes second nature with practice, and engaging the LAWKS has been no different for me. My thumb just naturally goes and engages it without a second thought. This does take some practice time, but anyone who has a knife for the specific purpose of self-defense and doesn't regularly practice drawing it, is really kidding themselves. Secondly, the steel choice. To a person who is truly dedicated to self-defense with a knife, the steel choice shouldn't make too much difference. I believe it is a cardinal sin to use your self-defense knife for everyday cutting tasks. That knife should only be used in a self-defense situation. This is the ONLY way to be absolutely sure that it will be sharp when your bacon is on the line. Always carry a backup knife to do your mundane cutting chores.(And in case you lose your first knife during the fight) I know I'm preaching to the choir in telling you this, but some people still carry only one knife to do all of their cutting chores. Anyway, if you don't use your self-defense knife for mundane cutting, how long it holds it's edge becomes a moot point. You may counter this by saying that the guy you provided the knife to, isn't likely to carry 2 knives like the rest of us KnifeKnuts. I would counter that by saying that as a man who has as vast a knowledge of self-defense issues as you have, it is your responsibility to impart that knowledge on him. I have nothing but kudo's for CRKT for providing such a quality self-defense piece at this price point. I think a lot of people miss the point of the KFF. I read a lot of posts asking why they couldn't use ats-34 or at least aus-8. Or why they don't develop something like the Axis or similar locks. If they did that, it would raise the price of the knife to the $100 and above range. If this is what people want, why not just get a Carnivore? With this knife, noone has the excuse that they can't afford a quality self-defense piece.
One more thing Jim, I realize that your point wasn't to attack CRKT or the KFF, but rather, point to an alternative. Most of my rant is directed at other posts in other threads. I have learned a lot about self-defense from reading your post's and also want to say thank you for taking the time to introduce someone else to the knifeworld. We all should be doing this if we want to preserve our freedoms.

Take care,

Jim McCullough
 
INSPITE OF ALL MY GRUMBLING:

In defense of the humble Zytel handled lockback, I must admit that I spine tested my SOG Magnadot yesterday by whacking the blade spine sharply against a thin carpeted floor. The blade didn't budge and the lock held.

I'd still lean towards the C/KFF for entry-level "self-defense" knives over a comparably priced lockback though. General purpose use would be a different story.

[This message has been edited by Full Tang Clan (edited 10-13-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Jim March:
Well there's two possible problems with any linerlock. One, that it might be "inherently crap" and mechanically fail, or it might be set up where white-knuckling the grip could accidently release it.
Click to expand...

The same can be said for a conventional lock back.

 
Jim,

I have to agree with you. The Goddard is an excellent choice, and ats-55 has turned out to be a better steel than I thought at first, certainly better than the others you mentioned.

I chose the fully serrated Delica for everday use. I did have to sort through a couple to get one that was smooth and locked tight with no blade play, but I found one.

I kick the thumb stud on liner locks and I do the same thing with the large spydie hole on the Delica, stick my thumb in the hole and kick it forward for fast (and safe opening). If I ride it out my thumb is more likely to slip and cut myself on the serrated edge.

Never touch anything with that spydie serrated edge unless you fully intend to cut it.
 
Jim McCullough:

I hear what you're saying. But...you have to tune any advice to the individual.

Raymond is almost 40. He's a former street cop (1.5 years, Hong Kong PD) and carried a gun daily on the job, never even had to draw it if I understood him right. (His English is better than my Chinese, let's put it that way
smile.gif
.) Today, he's totally lacking any "tactical mindset".

I don't see any easy way to change that.

That said, the piece in question WILL get used for at least some utility, and there was no guarantee he'd even spend enough time to fully drive the LAWKS operating drill into his own head. Or at least, that's what I figured when I was shopping - once he had it, he started that night with a "frequent flicking" program that was a joy to see (and hear) - like most people, he'd never handled a decent-quality knife of any sort
smile.gif
. So I may have been wrong on that point - but not on the "daily use" issue, which drives home the steel quality difference.

In any case, I think I made the right choice in THIS situation. I'm not dead-set against the KFF but seeing the Goddard at only $5 more was a pleasant revelation.

Last point: I once gave a knife to somebody who I knew would carry it for non-defensive uses, and was "generally against weapons". But sure enough, she ended up driving off two strong-arm robbers with that Buck River Rafter Crosslock. Funny as hell
smile.gif
.

So...if Raymond ever does find himself in hot water, he now has an option he didn't have before. That's about the best you can hope for...

Jim
 
How about settling it by saying that we should all own one good fixed blade "skeleton knife".

Now, what's good for under $40 in skeleton knives?
 
Jim,

It sounds like it's only a matter of time before he's bitten by the knife bug. Introduce him to this place and it will be a sure thing. Carrying one knife is certainly better than carrying no knife.
It sounds as if you are doing a fine job of converting the sheeple.

Take care,

Jim McCullough
 
Just wanted to say I think you made a good choice Jim! Ive been a long time fan of the Endura's(SS & Zytel), But since I got my plain edge Goddard lightweight my Endura's dont seem to be carried as much.

For me I like the thicker drop point blade tip and the feel of handle shape over the Endura. BTW, Mine was just a little "gritty" when it was new, but it broke in very nicely in about a week....VERY smooth now.

Just a note on the CRKT's....Ive got many different ones, and I think they are all good knives. Just wanted to add that my large Kasper/Crawford fails the spine wack test everytime without the lawks engaged.

------------------
Keith D.Armacost
If The Women Don't Find You Handsome,
At Least Let Them Find You Handy. R.G.
 
I'm with you Jim,

I LOVE the Goddard lightweight. It is high enough on my list that it is one of only four folders that I have out of the box and gets carried. It far surpasses the Endura and others for handle grip, if you really want an ergonomic/defensive knife. It has an outstanding guard and forward cant/curvature. The Goddard just sits really well in the hand, and without knowing Mr. Goddard is one of very few knives that I would way is designed by a real knife user. The lock is very solid. It is also lightweight and very thin, extremely easy to carry. I also have the plain edge version.

I just don't get into the KFF. I was all hyped when he was going to make a Rolling Lock version and I was ready to put out the big bucks for a custom, but otherwise I am just not that excited. Then I take into account how huge and bulky it is...


My only argument against the Goddard would be: not as fast to open as my AFCK or Axis, and when it is closed it is really wide and impossible to punch with, without really damaging your hand. When I pull out my AFCK or Axis, I can keep it closed, and hit with it if needed, and easily whip it open if needed. The Goddard on the other hand does not have that option, when it comes out, it has to be opened immediately if not slowly.

I consider the Goddard to be the "AFCK" of the zytel world and in my eyes that is a HUGE compliment. In the fact that the AFCK is so ergonomic, has such excellent edge presentation, and a good guard on it. Everyone owes it to themselves to pick up an feel a Goddard for themselves. If you want a full sized zytel folder to kick around and USE, this one is top notch.

On the other hand, I just can't seem to get my AFCK liner lock to fail, and I even ground (grinded) down the liner lock release area so that there is no way I can engage it without trying (not that it was a problem befire). Furthermore, it is an outstanding knife for daily use, and light and slim therefore easy to carry.

For these reasons I end up carrying my M2 AFCK still...or my Axis (just because that lock rules!).

Sure wish I could get an M2 AFCK with an Axis lock.



[This message has been edited by thaddeus (edited 10-18-2000).]
 
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