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The Goddard lightweight is an excellent choice. Too bad its getting discontinued.
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Dennis Bible
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Dennis Bible
The $40 fighting utility folder - some surprises...
- Thread starter Jim March
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I have the Wayne Goddard C-16S.
Micarta scales, Gin1 fully serrated blade.
It is the sharpest serrated knife I have ever seen!
It is quite a rare one as the fully serrated models were soon dicontinued. The lightweigt looks a great knife for little cash. Wonder why it did not sell all they well? Because it is a lockback? What to you all think?
W.A.
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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto
Micarta scales, Gin1 fully serrated blade.
It is the sharpest serrated knife I have ever seen!
It is quite a rare one as the fully serrated models were soon dicontinued. The lightweigt looks a great knife for little cash. Wonder why it did not sell all they well? Because it is a lockback? What to you all think?
W.A.
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"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto
Interesting post. I own both knives in question and 2 of each to boot. 1 Lg KFF and one small and one lt wt. Goddard plain edge and 50/50 blade. No doubt the Goddard is the better steel. Miles ahead of the AUS6M. As for lock strength I have beat on my KFF's pretty darn hard and they have yet to fail or even budge. The same can be said for my Magna too. With the LAWKS engaged it is even safer. As for self defense situations if I had to rely on a folder, which I hope I wouldn't, but if I did I would definetly take the KFF lg. Better ergonomics and since I carry a CCO almost all of the time the LAWKS isn't that big of deal to engage. Both have thumb safties. If I couldn't engage it I still have confidence in the liner of the KFF. I have pounded these knives right out to the point on a wooden cutting board darn hard, so much so that the smaller knife slipped in my hand and then out of my hand. Big surprise. The steel sucks as compared to ATS 55 or even the AUS8 in my Magna, but the rest of the knife is a tank and this AUS6M steel isn't that bad really when one considers how this particular knife is to be used. It also is a hell of lot beefier in case you had to use it as a pain compliance device. Something I am not so sure the lt. wt. Goddard would be as good at. I like carrying the Goddard better though just cause it is so thin and lite wt. But then again I carry my Al Mar Eagle more than anything and without a doubt the sharpest cutting insturment I have. Superb blade profile and the AUS 8 in this knife just seems better. I definetly don't think we should boycott CRKT though. Great knives at working man prices. All in all they all have there advantages as well as drawbacks. I assume the reason that CRKT doesn't use a better steel although this is conjecture on my part, is that the custom makers wouldn't sell as much of there custom knives. I should note here too that the set up and ergonomics of the KFF line doesn't lend itself to anything but being a self defense tool. My opinions only. Keep'em sharp
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As a direct result of this thread I sold my large KFF and bought a plain edge Goddard lightweight. Abosolutely a better choice. Better materials, better construction, better value. I will probably get another KFF in the future but the Goddard better suits my needs. Thanks for the excellent advice Jim.
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Dennis Bible
[This message has been edited by shootist16 (edited 01-11-2001).]
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Dennis Bible
[This message has been edited by shootist16 (edited 01-11-2001).]
I suppose the lock debate will never be over.
It is conceivable if one takes the time and has the immagination to defeat any lock made or to discredit a lock like the CRKT Lawks (because if you dont have time or forget to activate the Lawks the liner lock is not good enough).
There is one safety feature that is to me more important than the lock on the knife (due to what I have said above) and that is what happens to my fingers, especially my index finger, when the lock disengages when the knife is in use for whatever purpose.
The only knives imo (and I stand tot be corrected) as a group/manufacturer that I am aware of that has a safety feature built in to protect my index finger if the lock is accidently disengaged (whichever lock that might be) is Spyderco. All the Spydies have a safety "choil" that keeps the cutting edge away from the index finger when the blade closes due to lock failure or accidental disengagement.
There may be individual other knives from the other manufacturers or makers that has this feature.
It is conceivable if one takes the time and has the immagination to defeat any lock made or to discredit a lock like the CRKT Lawks (because if you dont have time or forget to activate the Lawks the liner lock is not good enough).
There is one safety feature that is to me more important than the lock on the knife (due to what I have said above) and that is what happens to my fingers, especially my index finger, when the lock disengages when the knife is in use for whatever purpose.
The only knives imo (and I stand tot be corrected) as a group/manufacturer that I am aware of that has a safety feature built in to protect my index finger if the lock is accidently disengaged (whichever lock that might be) is Spyderco. All the Spydies have a safety "choil" that keeps the cutting edge away from the index finger when the blade closes due to lock failure or accidental disengagement.
There may be individual other knives from the other manufacturers or makers that has this feature.
It's a pretty sad statement (and anyone please feel free to elaborate or opinionate here), that someone said "The Goddard is the AFCK of the Zytel world". Sad, not for Spyderco, but for BM, who makes the AFCK.
Why? Looking at the BM Ascent series, it's obvious they intended THEM to be the Zytel AFCK's. What happened? Why are the Ascents so maligned or ignored?
Why? Looking at the BM Ascent series, it's obvious they intended THEM to be the Zytel AFCK's. What happened? Why are the Ascents so maligned or ignored?
RH, the Ascent always came up hard against the Endura.
Endura Aus 8,Zytel vs Ascent, ATS 34 Zytel
Endura had better grip with decent steel. Ascent had better steel with an okay grip and some Ascents had bad QC. I chose the Endura over the Ascent and was totally satisfied.
Endura Aus 8,Zytel vs Ascent, ATS 34 Zytel
Endura had better grip with decent steel. Ascent had better steel with an okay grip and some Ascents had bad QC. I chose the Endura over the Ascent and was totally satisfied.
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Now the Enduras have ATS-55. Not as good as ATS-34 but better than AUS-8. The ergonomics are better than the ascents and so is the quality control.
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Dennis Bible
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Dennis Bible
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I have a Cold Steel Para Edge in AUS-6. Yes, I did say AUS-6. They used AUS-6, although I don't know if they do anymore.
Sidenote: I own a CRKT mini KFF, and I love it!
Very sharp, TRULY needle-like tip, just a nice knife, ESPECIALLY for the price. I got it for 38 bucks! You guys can bash CRKT all you want, but THEY DO MAKE SOME OF, IF NOT THE, BEST KNIVES FOR THE MONEY. And yes, if I go out and buy a Benchmade 940, it will be higher quality, but it will also be almost TRIPLE the price!
Say what you want, I love CRKT.
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"He who is wise in the ways of the sword will survive...he who is wise in avoiding conflict is truly wise...and he who is wise in the ways of both is blessed." -me
Sidenote: I own a CRKT mini KFF, and I love it!
Say what you want, I love CRKT.
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"He who is wise in the ways of the sword will survive...he who is wise in avoiding conflict is truly wise...and he who is wise in the ways of both is blessed." -me
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Just a follow-up:
Raymond still carries the Goddard daily. It's still tight; it's needed very minor touch-up but Raymond used to be co-owner and cook in a Chinese restraunt
so he knew how to do that just fine. He can open it dead smoothly without looking at it, while holding a conversation, so with any luck if he really needed it out for "social work" he'd have a chance.
He can and does open it around customers and co-workers for utility purposes without problems. And later, we went to another gun show and I showed him the KFF; his opinion was that the Goddard was a better choice for him.
The KFF does have some advantages in ergos for people willing to absolutely master the LAWKS. Still, I'd like to see CRKT use a better lock; licensing the Rolling Lock shouldn't be impossible and would be easily worth an extra $10 - $15 per knife. Hell, maybe they can bring back the old Blackie Collins Bolt Action, the patent is long since expired
. That lock is the clear ancestor of the Axis, except without ambi release - which is overrated anyways...and I'd be willing to bet modern CNC could bring down the Bolt's cost from the days when Gerber dominated folders with the Parabellum.
Jim
Raymond still carries the Goddard daily. It's still tight; it's needed very minor touch-up but Raymond used to be co-owner and cook in a Chinese restraunt
He can and does open it around customers and co-workers for utility purposes without problems. And later, we went to another gun show and I showed him the KFF; his opinion was that the Goddard was a better choice for him.
The KFF does have some advantages in ergos for people willing to absolutely master the LAWKS. Still, I'd like to see CRKT use a better lock; licensing the Rolling Lock shouldn't be impossible and would be easily worth an extra $10 - $15 per knife. Hell, maybe they can bring back the old Blackie Collins Bolt Action, the patent is long since expired
Jim
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This thread is the reason I got a Goddard lightweight. I love it. I have since sold my KFF. The Goddard lightweight was a real bargain. I need to get another one since they have been discontinued.
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Dennis Bible
....Coming soon, The Leading Edge....
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Dennis Bible
....Coming soon, The Leading Edge....
I would like to make a few comments here about steels. Few years ago I started collecting knives. I did not know anything about steels at that time and I still don't. But I asked my friend what was a god steel and he said ATS34. I have bought several knives in ATS 34 since, both production and custom. I am not a knife user, so my knives are just lying around. The summer in Toronto is very humid and I started noticing that all my ATS 34 knives started developing either small black dots on them or little rust stains. It happened to Benchmade AFCK, Weston fixed blade fighter, Walter Brend #2 and others. My Randals meanwhile did not rust. On the other hand few years ago I bought CS Hai Hocho made from the AUS 6 steel. This is actually the only knife I really use because it's hanging on my keychain. I am a lazy guy and several times I would cut fruits with this knife and forget to wash it for a month. It never rusted. In December I went to Cozumel and got certified as a deep water diver. I took my Hai Hocho with me under water. Under the influence of new experiences and daily Tequila I forgot to take care of the knife again .Only on my last day of the week when I was packing I realized that the knife has never been washed. It was coverd by seasalt for a week, but never rusted or stained again. Regarding the edge ,I have never tried to calculate how long each knife will maintain it,but what I found was that Hai Hocho is the easiest one to resharpen, and when it is sharpened I can shave my face with it. Maybe my experience is unique, but now I am not bying any more ATS 34 knives. By the way I also own KFF and the lock is just fine, much better than on any Emersons I have had before.The only problem I have with KFF is that the handle is kind of slippery. I would prefer some texture on it. Regarding the Spyderco lockbacks, I have owned Remote release model and lockback was pretty strong, never failed in heavy use. However it did develop lateral play and because the pins hold the handle together not the screws, there was not a damn thing I could do to fix it. So I gave it to my friend who really liked it. The only other problem I had with the lockback was that when it got dirty it was not opening smoothly and it was hard to clean from dirt inside. Linerlock is definitely easier to clean. All that said, I do not trust any of these stupid locks and prefer fixed blade. Alex.
I would like to make a few comments here about steels. Few years ago I started collecting knives. I did not know anything about steels at that time and I still don't. But I asked my friend what was a god steel and he said ATS34. I have bought several knives in ATS 34 since, both production and custom. I am not a knife user, so my knives are just lying around. The summer in Toronto is very humid and I started noticing that all my ATS 34 knives started developing either small black dots on them or little rust stains. It happened to Benchmade AFCK, Weston fixed blade fighter, Walter Brend #2 and others. My Randals meanwhile did not rust. On the other hand few years ago I bought CS Hai Hocho made from the AUS 6 steel. This is actually the only knife I really use because it's hanging on my keychain. I am a lazy guy and several times I would cut fruits with this knife and forget to wash it for a month. It never rusted. In December I went to Cozumel and got certified as a deep water diver. I took my Hai Hocho with me under water. Under the influence of new experiences and daily Tequila I forgot to take care of the knife again .Only on my last day of the week when I was packing I realized that the knife has never been washed. It was coverd by seasalt for a week, but never rusted or stained again. Regarding the edge ,I have never tried to calculate how long each knife will maintain it,but what I found was that Hai Hocho is the easiest one to resharpen, and when it is sharpened I can shave my face with it. Maybe my experience is unique, but now I am not bying any more ATS 34 knives. By the way I also own KFF and the lock is just fine, much better than on any Emersons I have had before.The only problem I have with KFF is that the handle is kind of slippery. I would prefer some texture on it. Regarding the Spyderco lockbacks, I have owned Remote release model and lockback was pretty strong, never failed in heavy use. However it did develop lateral play and because the pins hold the handle together not the screws, there was not a damn thing I could do to fix it. So I gave it to my friend who really liked it. The only other problem I had with the lockback was that when it got dirty it was not opening smoothly and it was hard to clean from dirt inside. Linerlock is definitely easier to clean. All that said, I do not trust any of these stupid locks and prefer fixed blade. Alex.
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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I find that my fine-polished ATS34 pieces don't rust on me as long as I keep 'em dry. And I have one handmade ATS34 piece with a superior heat-treat that has survived hours of open-carry while driving a motorcycle in the rain, with not a single spot. I do dry it after such a trip though (it's a $440 piece
).
The heat-treat matters...and what's even more critical is that bead-blasting radically increases rust by increasing the surface area.
AUS6 and it's close cousin 440A are very stain resistant and not at all "bad" steels. SOG and Myerchin have been getting respectable performance out of 440A - they use that steel for their "marine duty" pieces. I think since bead-blasting is a low-cost finishing treatment, CRKT is doing AUS6 to reduce the rust complaints that cropped up on the Apache (ATS34) and M16 (mostly AUS8). It's possible to fine-buff the blade yourself and solve the problem that way.
All of these $40 - $60 range knives are going to have SOME drawbacks. A Zytel Spydie can indeed loosen up, although Raymond's Goddard Light shows no sign of it despite daily blue-collar use.
Does anyone have Myerco's URL? I'm interested to see what they're doing with the Bolt Action...
I'll admit to a bit of "steel snobbery", personally
. My next Sifu will be the new D2-M (so I can retire "old #1"). I could get by with ATS34 or 154CM, but the D2-M will give me "just a hair more confidence" and I feel that (God forbid) I should ever draw in anger, that little voice saying "well hell, at least I got a good piece on me!" will help a bit.
I'm willing to pay a bit extra for that. Probably isn't absolutely necessary, but what the heck
.
Jim
The heat-treat matters...and what's even more critical is that bead-blasting radically increases rust by increasing the surface area.
AUS6 and it's close cousin 440A are very stain resistant and not at all "bad" steels. SOG and Myerchin have been getting respectable performance out of 440A - they use that steel for their "marine duty" pieces. I think since bead-blasting is a low-cost finishing treatment, CRKT is doing AUS6 to reduce the rust complaints that cropped up on the Apache (ATS34) and M16 (mostly AUS8). It's possible to fine-buff the blade yourself and solve the problem that way.
All of these $40 - $60 range knives are going to have SOME drawbacks. A Zytel Spydie can indeed loosen up, although Raymond's Goddard Light shows no sign of it despite daily blue-collar use.
Does anyone have Myerco's URL? I'm interested to see what they're doing with the Bolt Action...
I'll admit to a bit of "steel snobbery", personally
I'm willing to pay a bit extra for that. Probably isn't absolutely necessary, but what the heck
Jim
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Speaking of economical utility folders, I just found out that at ISKS the colored Gigand Titans are only about $40! Their blades are of ATS-34 and their handles of aluminium. I also presume that their locking mechanism is better than that of CRKT...it would have to be pretty weak not to be. Here is the link:
http://onestopknifeshop.com/store/gigand-colored-titans.html
http://onestopknifeshop.com/store/gigand-colored-titans.html
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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The Gigand is...interesting, but the blade is only a hair past 3" and I don't know that I like that grip shape much. Your forefinger sits right on the linerlock release and there's not much to prevent a "slip-up accident" on a stab (tip catches on something, your hand goes right down the blade).
Compare with the grip shape of the Goddard...the Goddard doesn't look any more "combat aggressive" than the Goddard, but in reality it's just as effective as a "true fighter grip" like the KFF. Wayne really did a number on that grip shape.
Now, if you want a "gent's utility knife", the Gigand is a fine choice...but I wouldn't trust it in a fight unless I was a "cut-only stylist" - which I personally am not, if I get an opening for a good stab in a life-or-death fight, I'm taking it.
Jim
Compare with the grip shape of the Goddard...the Goddard doesn't look any more "combat aggressive" than the Goddard, but in reality it's just as effective as a "true fighter grip" like the KFF. Wayne really did a number on that grip shape.
Now, if you want a "gent's utility knife", the Gigand is a fine choice...but I wouldn't trust it in a fight unless I was a "cut-only stylist" - which I personally am not, if I get an opening for a good stab in a life-or-death fight, I'm taking it.
Jim
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This is a great thread for me, since I've actually owned some of these knives, plus I am still evaluating my choice of daily carry knife. I tend to only carry one, in my strong side pocket. I have an older Endura, a large Ascent, and a CS Gunsite II. I'm a lockback fan and so far don't trust linerlocks. What Jim March says about the LAWKS seems to make sense, and his idea of a tactical bolt action also sounds good, as I own a Gerber Bolt Action from the eighties, and always did like it. Lacking a stud or hole, it was one of the easiest knives to open one-handed, and it can be flicked open if one holds back the "bolt" during the swing. Here's my take on two of these issues:
*Commonality of training:
Those who carry several different knives for S-D need to think about their operation. If one finds it easy to inertia flick open one knife, but always thumbs another open, and they are both serious carry knives, will one automatically use the best opening method with the correct knife "when it counts?" I can readily flick open both my Gunsite II and my Ascent, but not the Endura. (I also prefer the holes over the stud for thumb opening.) Finally, the Endura and Gunsite are tip-up carries (no choice), while the Ascent is currently set up for tip-down (and since two of the molded in steel threaded bushings seem to be missing, I'll have to send it back to switch). Right now I prefer tip-up, but this could change.
*Best techniques under stress, and under different combat situations:
Inertia opening seems to work well in practice, but when I stick the knife back in my pocket and later try to deploy it that way, I fail to open it! Is it me, or is it the knife "settling" down some way while being carried? I'm not sure, but I'm seriously questioning my ability to flick it open successfully upon demand.
Also, if I were bum-rushed and clinched or taken to the ground, inertia opening might not be possible. It seems that thumbing might be more "stressproof."
I'm out of time for now, so I'll stop here, but I'll definitely check back later. I have plenty to say about the Ascent. This is one of favorite threads, and practical knife defense is one reason I am turning into a full "knife person." (BTW, I have one CRKT--a safety tip Bear Claw, which I will be installing in one of my old cars in case of seat belt release failure or first aid use, or, you know, other little emergencies.)
Yers,
Karl
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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy
*Commonality of training:
Those who carry several different knives for S-D need to think about their operation. If one finds it easy to inertia flick open one knife, but always thumbs another open, and they are both serious carry knives, will one automatically use the best opening method with the correct knife "when it counts?" I can readily flick open both my Gunsite II and my Ascent, but not the Endura. (I also prefer the holes over the stud for thumb opening.) Finally, the Endura and Gunsite are tip-up carries (no choice), while the Ascent is currently set up for tip-down (and since two of the molded in steel threaded bushings seem to be missing, I'll have to send it back to switch). Right now I prefer tip-up, but this could change.
*Best techniques under stress, and under different combat situations:
Inertia opening seems to work well in practice, but when I stick the knife back in my pocket and later try to deploy it that way, I fail to open it! Is it me, or is it the knife "settling" down some way while being carried? I'm not sure, but I'm seriously questioning my ability to flick it open successfully upon demand.
Also, if I were bum-rushed and clinched or taken to the ground, inertia opening might not be possible. It seems that thumbing might be more "stressproof."
I'm out of time for now, so I'll stop here, but I'll definitely check back later. I have plenty to say about the Ascent. This is one of favorite threads, and practical knife defense is one reason I am turning into a full "knife person." (BTW, I have one CRKT--a safety tip Bear Claw, which I will be installing in one of my old cars in case of seat belt release failure or first aid use, or, you know, other little emergencies.)
Yers,
Karl
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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy