( I wrote the post below before reading Cougars reply. Damn he beat me to it. He must type faster than me
)
Steve Harvey asked several questions and he is entitled to the answers.
What effort have the moderators and administrators of this site made to create any balance or proportion in the discussion?
You want to balance the proportion of the discussion the discussion going on here? Are you kidding me? The members here decide what is to be talked about, not the moderators, not Spark and certainly not me.
Are you asking me to control the flow of information up to and including censoring? Isn't that what Mad Dog does? Or just the opposite of what Mad Dog does? We don't censor here and we do not control the flow of information. If you want that you need to visit
www.tacticalforums.com
If you want a great place to hang out at and one in which you can speak your mind about a particular product than you are already in the right place.
If you see any personal attacks going on then please let me or a moderator know, as that is my #1 rule and that is why this place works so damn well.
Haven't all the points been adequately made?
Apparently not. You just made this one, right?
What is the point of going on?
To get to the truth which is what everyone wants, right?
Is it the intention to drive every satisfied owner of a Mad Dog knife away from this site?
No, can you name one? And if they do leave you can bet your ass it is not because we are lying.
Is the utter public villification of Keven McClung the only thing that will bring this to a conclusion?
Vilification is synonymous with libelous, backbiting, calumnious, detracting, maligning, scandalous, slanderous, traducing and a few words I can't post here. Is this not what you say we are doing?
Is that a worthy goal for a knife discussion web site?
No the slogan of this site is "The Leading Edge of
Knife Discussion". Mad Dog makes knives, we are discussing them. Simple huh?
Listen Steve, I am not Vilifying McClung. I really don't need to as he has done a very good job of that all on his own without my help. He deleted the thread on his site in which he attacked us for charging for our magazine. He then said he was not talking about us. No need to rehash the entire thread but Kevin McClung
IS a liar. Is that a personal attack? Nope, it is a mere statement of fact and it is appropriate as it involves both forums and the specific charges by one forum's owner and his obvious failed attempt to cover it up. What was his way out? Delete the thread.
Do we do that here?
Nope. Each time I have been called to the table, and subsequently had to admit I was wrong, the post stayed up.
If the situation was reversed, do you actually believe that this post would still be up on McClung's forum?
YOU!
Just kidding...
We do not target makers or anyone for that matter. Only one maker has been the subject of this much ridicule and he only has himself to blame. To believe otherwise is, IMHO, foolish.
Think about this Steve,
A business decision made by Les De Asis and the Benchmade knife company caused me to lose over $1,000,000 in sales. Yes that is 1 Million! Using your logic you would think I would be using this forum as my personal pulpit to attack them at every chance? Do I? No! In fact I do just the opposite. I said my peace on his forum and it is over.
Les De Asis is welcome to post here and if you check out the Benchmade forum I still, to this day, help out there. I also host the AKTI forum which he is the President of. I still shake his hand at shows and we talk a good bit. I brought Allen Elishewitz to Benchmade. I still send in repairs to them for people.
Are we best of friends?
No, but I do not consider him my enemy.
I have a similar argument for Microtech which has also cost me a ton of money. I don't blast them either. Not in public anyway
McClung, however, has not cost me a dime. However he did call me a liar on more than one occasion and he has yet to prove his case. In fact the more he tries to prove I am lying the more he lies himself. It is quite funny actually.
Will you harrass every knife maker who makes a $300 knife with an edge that chips when chopped into metal, or breaks when immovably embedded into a board and torqued?
Do you live under a rock? I know you read my tests. The knife chipped while I was chopping
wood NOT metal. Can you please point me to where this was stated? Also the knife did not break, it bent and stayed bent. The Mission MPK-S broke.
Also again you said
immovably embedded into a board and torqued?
If the knife was immovably embedded into the wood then it would still be there. I can assure you that the knife was removed. This is not a new test Steve, in FACT it has been around for quite some time and is a STANDARD test with most makers. IN FACT I used the same Spruce 2X4 i used to chop while most makers use a Maple block no unlike that you would use as a cutting board which is harder.
You have been warned before about bringing up subjects without backing your statements up with FACTS or direct quotes. This is just another prime example. You are welcome to post here all you want. Just stick tot he FACTS please
I am sure it was just a mistake on your part, but when you are trying to make such an important point, it would do you good to proof read your own posts and any time you refer to anything said by anyone else you may want to go and VERIFY what you are quoting. OK
Or you could just continue on your present course which is fine by me because it sure as hell helps our side each and everytime you, curious, David, Tactec (the later 3 being the same person, come over here.
Don't ya think?
No really, don't you
think?
Also, you don't see Rick Shultz in here arguing my test results. The mother of all tests was not any test which involves Mad Dog. It was the Busse -VS- Cold Steel test. Cold Steel lost. You don't see Lynn crying about it. I damn near raked Camillus over the coals. Do you see Will crying about it? No, what Camillus did do, IN FACT, was review how they sharpen their knives based on my test. They agreed that there is room for improvement. IN FACT they make the Cold Steel CV knives, so we all know that have the ability to make some serious KICK ASS knives with KICK ASS edges. But what they don't do is whine or create some goofy story to discredit my test.
A previous test of mine also revealed a manufacturing flaw in the Ascent 840 from Benchmade. Did Les De Asis cry about my testing or question my testing abilities? Of course not, he did the respectable thing and checked it out. Guess what? There was a problem and it was corrected!
How many different people need to tell McClung that maybe he is doing it wrong? Can't he put his obvious huge ego aside and examine the
facts?
Think about it Steve. Wouldn't you want to know that you may have a problem with your knives? Wouldn't you look a lot better if you said that you would review your knife making skills periodically to see if there could be room for improvement? Can you FREAKING IMAGINE what a ATAK would be like if it was made from a better steel and at a more appropriate hardness!
O-1 is damn near the cheapest steel out there. There is a reason for that. Sure it is a good steel but do you actually want to insult the intelligence of everyone who knows better? McClung has worked wonders with O-1 but give me a break.
My suggestion for McClung is this.
Make a run of ATAKs in another steel. D2 perhaps, Talonite maybe or whatever steel you guys would like to see. Heck have him do a survey on his forum to see what steel you all would like him to use on a limited run of ATAKs. Get rid of that cheesy coating he uses and step up to Titanium Nitride or something. I bet he could sell 'em for $399 with no problem. I know I would buy one. Anyone else?
Sure you can say that he does not have a problem selling the ones he already makes. He has backorders for over 4 months. Fine. Stay the same and never change. Your market will eventually demand that you do so. In fact I think that is what is happening right now. Hello, Hello ..... Is this thing on?
Think I don't know what I am talking about? I was the largest manufacturer of blowguns in the world. I sold nearly 1 Million of them! I used the best materials I could get and I switched to better materials when they became available. Nearly each year I would have a major product upgrade. My cost stayed nearly the same so I did not have to raise prices but once in 5 years. My business grew and my customers where happy. If you want to compare numbers, I have had only about 30 blowguns returned in 9 years out of about 1 million. Now do I think you are naive enough to think that 30 blowguns is all that where defective? No. Also there is a huge price difference when compared to a $355 knife. I understand that. My point was I listened to my customers and when ever there was a problem I corrected it.
Much like Camillus and Benchmade, I realize how important customer service is. I also realize how important it is for a manufacturer to maintain their public image. Does Mad Dog?
Any hand maker of ATS-34 combat knives over $200 beware. You may be next.
Only if they act like a Mad Dog
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 01-31-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 01-31-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 01-31-2000).]
