-
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The absence of moderation
- Thread starter Samurai6
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 16, 1998
- Messages
- 2,395
My post was not a troll, though I have to admit, in this environment, the result was as though it were.
I was just trying to make the point that allowing thread after thread on this subject was divisive, and in my opinion unfair. And yes, a component of that is that I am tired of reading posts the synically and sarcastically impune the heat treatment of Mad Dog knives when they have never owned one. I guess that's my personal problem.
Maybe it is not the job of a moderator to be sure that all viewpoints are heard and to mediate, to help reconcile the extremes. Though, I thought it was. If not that, then what? Whatever the job of the moderator might be, I acknowledge that on one particular topic it has recently been impossible.
I know this for a fact: whenever the discussions on public forums drift off of the common interest, knives in this case, and onto personalities and emotions, division and dissolution soon follow. Recent events on the knife-list are proof enough of that.
Thank you very much to those of you who posted kind words. It is extremely gratifying to find people with the good character to give another person the benefit of the doubt when that person is being unpopular. You are the ones who make whatever community exists on these forums possible.
I was just trying to make the point that allowing thread after thread on this subject was divisive, and in my opinion unfair. And yes, a component of that is that I am tired of reading posts the synically and sarcastically impune the heat treatment of Mad Dog knives when they have never owned one. I guess that's my personal problem.
Maybe it is not the job of a moderator to be sure that all viewpoints are heard and to mediate, to help reconcile the extremes. Though, I thought it was. If not that, then what? Whatever the job of the moderator might be, I acknowledge that on one particular topic it has recently been impossible.
I know this for a fact: whenever the discussions on public forums drift off of the common interest, knives in this case, and onto personalities and emotions, division and dissolution soon follow. Recent events on the knife-list are proof enough of that.
Thank you very much to those of you who posted kind words. It is extremely gratifying to find people with the good character to give another person the benefit of the doubt when that person is being unpopular. You are the ones who make whatever community exists on these forums possible.
This whole discussion is why I will be spending more time at www.knifeforums.com from now on instead of here. A similiar thread there was locked when it started heading the way this one and other threads have been going here for quite some time. By the way, Steve does a great job of moderating over there, and there's plenty on knife knowledge to be gained as well. If you all are tired of this stuff and want to get back to intelligent knife content with much less ego, I suggest you do the same. Yes, I will take my Mad Dogs with me, as well as my Sebenza, my Dozier, my Patton, and my Elishewitz. You see I'm not the mindless cult follower some of you think I am. I've been called that, I was called a w h o r e in another post, and some more names that I've forgotten. I have a lot to learn about knives and prefer using my time where I can learn.
Mark
------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
confidence.
[This message has been edited by marklee (edited 02-01-2000).]
Mark
------------------
Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with
confidence.
[This message has been edited by marklee (edited 02-01-2000).]
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 5,461
Steve,
You are very welcome here. Your posts are welcome here as is your point of view. All I have asked is that when you post, would you please, back them up with quotes and facts. That's all and it really is that simple.
In your post which started this thread you make several statements and you ask several questions. Embedded in those questions are either mistakes or down right lies. There is no other way to look at it. No one that I am aware of chopped into metal. No Mad Dog broke while embedded into wood. Why did you ask your questions. Then you get called on them and then not offer an explanation as to why you asked a false question to begin with?
I have answered every question asked of me. I think I owe the members here at least that. Cliff has done the same when he is asked about his testing. How do you possibly come away from this making us the bad guys?
Also most of the moderators here were also at KnifeForums and witnessed what Mad Dog did to people all the time. I called Earl Stewart (then the owner) and was told that it is Mad Dog's forum and that Earl allows him complete leeway to do whatever he wants. I am not sure what the business decision was but I can only guess that since Earl was a dealer and made money off of Mad Dog knives, McClung was allowed to have fun at the expense of members feelings.
Have I let this go one too long? Is Mad Dog getting some payback? Am I siting here laughing my ass off? Maybe, Maybe, Yes!
I don't lie nor do I bull ****.
If James wants to shut down this thread he is free to do so. He also can shut down any thread on this forum as I trust his judgement. On this particular subject matter I can not claim pure objectivity so I leave it to him. I have tried to remain objective and most posts are indicative of that.
This subject is old but I am not the one who claims my tests are unfair or biased or whatever. I also won't let anyone call me a liar without a fight. I tried to take this to email but McClung will not answer my emails. He just picks apart the posts over here and never answer any questions. Humm... Actually Steve, that sounds a lot like you, don't you think?
My track record speaks for itself. I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain by having this whole Mad Dog issue continue myself. However, like James eluded to, it is very difficult to control these Mad Dog threads.
If we lock them, you can bet your ass we will hear about that. I think letting it ALL air out is perhaps our best way of handling it. Plus it proves we have nothing to hide here.
Remember that McClung is not banned here. He is welcome to come here and defend himself. He probably won't because he can simply delete any posts at his forum he wants when it proves to not be in his best interest to let it stay up. Luckily I have many of the posts he has deleted saved.
Mark Lee,
You are welcome here as well. Although you did not make any points in your post, I can only guess that you feel we are bashing Mad Dog here. That is fine. KnifeForums is a great site and Jim appears to be a good person. Steve Harvey took over the very same forum I moderated. You may not remember why this forum was created in the first place. The reason it is successful is because we did/do things differently here than what was/is done elsewhere.
KnifeForums appears to be heading in a new direction led by Jim Nowka. I gave Jim a lot of advice on the phone as we talked for many hours. He has apparently listened to me. A lot of his ideas where very similar to the original idea I had for KnifeForums when I was there. Unfortunately for me, at the time, the person manning the helm, would not listen. If Jim was running KnifeForums I might still be there today. It did not turn out that way.
Now I have an obligation. In fact I have several.
To the members of this forum I must maintain an atmosphere which is conducive to learning, which is the overall goal of this site. The site must be entertaining enough to retain readership and it must provide valuable content. The content on this site must be true and factual. This whole Mad Dog issue keeps coming back because our integrity is questioned. Yet when pressed, neither Steve Harvey or Mad Dog can prove otherwise. So many people here have asked questions and have yet to get answers. Cliff Stamp could write a book on this whole ordeal and based on my knowledge of Cliff he does not get paid for reviews, is not a dealer and has no reason for bias whatsoever.
I consider Walt Welch a friend and I am sure McClung does as well. Walt owns many Mad Dog knives and will probably continue to buy them even after this. Yet you see in his posts that he asks legitimate questions and guess what? He get's real legitimate answers. The funny thing is the last HUGE Mad Dog thread has turned into perhaps the best explanations of knife and sword making I have ever seen! Why would I want to stop that flow of creative juices?
Anyway I have some work to do and I will leave you with this.
I have chosen to make knives a big part of my life. This site is a testament to how I want to be remembered. I hope that I have done more good than harm. If I find myself doing the later, I will shut this site down or sell it to someone who can perhaps do a better job than me. I owe at least that to the many fine people who visit and post here and who I feel comfortable in calling my friends. We may disagree at times but that is just a big part of life. I have learned so much more from my failures than I will ever learn from my successes. I also learn a lot during arguments. I have learned more from the many people who visit here than I could ever possibly have learned from any other source about knives and in some cases life in general. That is what makes this place special and to throw it away because of one disagreement would be a huge waste.
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
You are very welcome here. Your posts are welcome here as is your point of view. All I have asked is that when you post, would you please, back them up with quotes and facts. That's all and it really is that simple.
In your post which started this thread you make several statements and you ask several questions. Embedded in those questions are either mistakes or down right lies. There is no other way to look at it. No one that I am aware of chopped into metal. No Mad Dog broke while embedded into wood. Why did you ask your questions. Then you get called on them and then not offer an explanation as to why you asked a false question to begin with?
I have answered every question asked of me. I think I owe the members here at least that. Cliff has done the same when he is asked about his testing. How do you possibly come away from this making us the bad guys?
Also most of the moderators here were also at KnifeForums and witnessed what Mad Dog did to people all the time. I called Earl Stewart (then the owner) and was told that it is Mad Dog's forum and that Earl allows him complete leeway to do whatever he wants. I am not sure what the business decision was but I can only guess that since Earl was a dealer and made money off of Mad Dog knives, McClung was allowed to have fun at the expense of members feelings.
Have I let this go one too long? Is Mad Dog getting some payback? Am I siting here laughing my ass off? Maybe, Maybe, Yes!
I don't lie nor do I bull ****.
If James wants to shut down this thread he is free to do so. He also can shut down any thread on this forum as I trust his judgement. On this particular subject matter I can not claim pure objectivity so I leave it to him. I have tried to remain objective and most posts are indicative of that.
This subject is old but I am not the one who claims my tests are unfair or biased or whatever. I also won't let anyone call me a liar without a fight. I tried to take this to email but McClung will not answer my emails. He just picks apart the posts over here and never answer any questions. Humm... Actually Steve, that sounds a lot like you, don't you think?
My track record speaks for itself. I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain by having this whole Mad Dog issue continue myself. However, like James eluded to, it is very difficult to control these Mad Dog threads.
If we lock them, you can bet your ass we will hear about that. I think letting it ALL air out is perhaps our best way of handling it. Plus it proves we have nothing to hide here.
Remember that McClung is not banned here. He is welcome to come here and defend himself. He probably won't because he can simply delete any posts at his forum he wants when it proves to not be in his best interest to let it stay up. Luckily I have many of the posts he has deleted saved.
Mark Lee,
You are welcome here as well. Although you did not make any points in your post, I can only guess that you feel we are bashing Mad Dog here. That is fine. KnifeForums is a great site and Jim appears to be a good person. Steve Harvey took over the very same forum I moderated. You may not remember why this forum was created in the first place. The reason it is successful is because we did/do things differently here than what was/is done elsewhere.
KnifeForums appears to be heading in a new direction led by Jim Nowka. I gave Jim a lot of advice on the phone as we talked for many hours. He has apparently listened to me. A lot of his ideas where very similar to the original idea I had for KnifeForums when I was there. Unfortunately for me, at the time, the person manning the helm, would not listen. If Jim was running KnifeForums I might still be there today. It did not turn out that way.
Now I have an obligation. In fact I have several.
To the members of this forum I must maintain an atmosphere which is conducive to learning, which is the overall goal of this site. The site must be entertaining enough to retain readership and it must provide valuable content. The content on this site must be true and factual. This whole Mad Dog issue keeps coming back because our integrity is questioned. Yet when pressed, neither Steve Harvey or Mad Dog can prove otherwise. So many people here have asked questions and have yet to get answers. Cliff Stamp could write a book on this whole ordeal and based on my knowledge of Cliff he does not get paid for reviews, is not a dealer and has no reason for bias whatsoever.
I consider Walt Welch a friend and I am sure McClung does as well. Walt owns many Mad Dog knives and will probably continue to buy them even after this. Yet you see in his posts that he asks legitimate questions and guess what? He get's real legitimate answers. The funny thing is the last HUGE Mad Dog thread has turned into perhaps the best explanations of knife and sword making I have ever seen! Why would I want to stop that flow of creative juices?
Anyway I have some work to do and I will leave you with this.
I have chosen to make knives a big part of my life. This site is a testament to how I want to be remembered. I hope that I have done more good than harm. If I find myself doing the later, I will shut this site down or sell it to someone who can perhaps do a better job than me. I owe at least that to the many fine people who visit and post here and who I feel comfortable in calling my friends. We may disagree at times but that is just a big part of life. I have learned so much more from my failures than I will ever learn from my successes. I also learn a lot during arguments. I have learned more from the many people who visit here than I could ever possibly have learned from any other source about knives and in some cases life in general. That is what makes this place special and to throw it away because of one disagreement would be a huge waste.
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 5,461
Well this is not the appropriet thread to ask that but I will answer it anyway.
I do not own ABC-Direct. Mike Gallagher does. I do own half of ABC-Direct as that was part of the original deal when I sold it. I think I am listed as Vice President.
Dragon Forge is simply a brand name and not an actual company. It is a pet project of mine and I am trying to see if it will work. So far I am not impressed with the sales which is why you no longer see the ads. I will keep the name and market the products and introduce news ones when I find products which will fit the criteria.
Benchmade changed their distribution policies a couple of years ago. In doing so they cut about 40 distributors in an attempt to get more dealer direct sales. This effectively cut me out of the loop. And forced me to rethink ALL of my marketing strategies. It has taken me about 2 years to restructure but I am no longer a distributor and no manufacturer can control any aspect of my business. This is good for me especially now as many cool things are about to take place.
I will anounce them on March 1st. To give you an idea of how big my future plans are I have taken out a FULL page FULL Color ad and 2 1/3 page ads in Blade.
Stay Tuned
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
I do not own ABC-Direct. Mike Gallagher does. I do own half of ABC-Direct as that was part of the original deal when I sold it. I think I am listed as Vice President.
Dragon Forge is simply a brand name and not an actual company. It is a pet project of mine and I am trying to see if it will work. So far I am not impressed with the sales which is why you no longer see the ads. I will keep the name and market the products and introduce news ones when I find products which will fit the criteria.
Benchmade changed their distribution policies a couple of years ago. In doing so they cut about 40 distributors in an attempt to get more dealer direct sales. This effectively cut me out of the loop. And forced me to rethink ALL of my marketing strategies. It has taken me about 2 years to restructure but I am no longer a distributor and no manufacturer can control any aspect of my business. This is good for me especially now as many cool things are about to take place.
I will anounce them on March 1st. To give you an idea of how big my future plans are I have taken out a FULL page FULL Color ad and 2 1/3 page ads in Blade.
Stay Tuned
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
- Joined
- Nov 8, 1998
- Messages
- 770
I think MikeT's post has said it all...and I am not a "MikeT sycophant" (right, Mike ?)
This is a forum where ALL can have a say without fear of "excommunication".
I read stuff that makes my skin crawl, at times, but I accept that as part of the openness of the system. I am, often, a lone dissenting voice.....I accept that without rancour. Well, mostly.
How about we all count ourselves as accountable for our posts and accept the few posts that present an unpopular point of view. "Unpopular" doesn't, always, mean "wrong" or "evil".
------------------
BrianWE
If I am a figment of your imagination, stop it..PLEASE
This is a forum where ALL can have a say without fear of "excommunication".
I read stuff that makes my skin crawl, at times, but I accept that as part of the openness of the system. I am, often, a lone dissenting voice.....I accept that without rancour. Well, mostly.
How about we all count ourselves as accountable for our posts and accept the few posts that present an unpopular point of view. "Unpopular" doesn't, always, mean "wrong" or "evil".
------------------
BrianWE
If I am a figment of your imagination, stop it..PLEASE
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Wow, the heat is on in Bladeforum!
I'll add only a few comments.
First, it is not the moderator's responsiblity to make sure that "every opinion is heard." It is the responsibility of those members who hold opinions to make sure that their voice is heard.
I am aware of only one person who has been banned from bladeforums.com. Anyone with an opinion is welcome to register and be heard. But, they must register and they must post.
On the other hand, while it is not the moderator's responsibility to make sure that all opinions are heard, when a moderator closes a thread, he denies all opinions the opportunity to be heard. In this respect, the best thing a moderator can do is leave a thread open and let everyone's opinion be heard.
We have upwards of 6000 members here. I have to belive that just about every opinion is represented. I have to belive that those that are not simply choose not to be.
Bladeforums had distinguished itself as the foremost online knife discussion site. I have learned greatly here and benefitted greatly from my participation. Anyone who chooses not to participate for whatever reason denies himself a huge benefit. I'd encourage anyone who takes offense at one topic or another to reconsider before he throws the proverbial baby away with the bath water.
Anyone is welcome to open a thread here. If all of the threads concerning a certain knife are negative, then I have to conclude that either the proponents of that knife don't care enough to open a positive thread, or that the knife really is bad. But, when the proponents of that knife open a thread to berate their opponents, well, that tells me that they have nothing positive to say about the knife.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing! http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 02-02-2000).]
I'll add only a few comments.
First, it is not the moderator's responsiblity to make sure that "every opinion is heard." It is the responsibility of those members who hold opinions to make sure that their voice is heard.
I am aware of only one person who has been banned from bladeforums.com. Anyone with an opinion is welcome to register and be heard. But, they must register and they must post.
On the other hand, while it is not the moderator's responsibility to make sure that all opinions are heard, when a moderator closes a thread, he denies all opinions the opportunity to be heard. In this respect, the best thing a moderator can do is leave a thread open and let everyone's opinion be heard.
We have upwards of 6000 members here. I have to belive that just about every opinion is represented. I have to belive that those that are not simply choose not to be.
Bladeforums had distinguished itself as the foremost online knife discussion site. I have learned greatly here and benefitted greatly from my participation. Anyone who chooses not to participate for whatever reason denies himself a huge benefit. I'd encourage anyone who takes offense at one topic or another to reconsider before he throws the proverbial baby away with the bath water.
Anyone is welcome to open a thread here. If all of the threads concerning a certain knife are negative, then I have to conclude that either the proponents of that knife don't care enough to open a positive thread, or that the knife really is bad. But, when the proponents of that knife open a thread to berate their opponents, well, that tells me that they have nothing positive to say about the knife.
------------------
Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing! http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick
[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 02-02-2000).]
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 5,461
Timing is everything. The members here will get a sneak preview
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW RIGHT NOW! YOU WILL BE GLAD YOU DID!
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001202.html