The Art of Critique

Tai Goo said:
Exactly,... it falls upon the artist's ability and skills at “receiving” critique, more than the skills of the critic... In this context.

So, how are makers supposed to take it? Maybe that's the real question...
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I think that makers/artist who are comfortable with their work and where they are at the present are more likely to take various levels of critique in stride.

Those who are still searching may struggle more with it.

After many moons on this earth, I know that I take more things in stride than I did say 10-years ago. I just wish I had more artistic talent of some sort to be critiqued. I'll wager most of you will manage somehow! ;) :D

- Joe
 
This Thread is getting as wacky as some of the wacky threads I've seen on BF. No offense!!
 
Tai Goo said:
We each should realize and take seriously our "responsibilities" and place in the craft... or just keep quiet.

The general public views these things and is often swayed and confused by misinformation, and uneducated opinions… It can effect the livelihoods of sincere honest makers. There are folks just trying to put food on the table at the work they love...

What we have is amateur and hobbyist critics with nothing to lose, critiquing professional knifemakers,... Hey! You tell me?
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Piles of money, Tai.

If I told you how much money had been put into custom knives, on working class wages....you might see how completely this is NOT a hobby to some of us...it is our lives...and while we have no problem feeding those who provide us the fuel of our passion, even inviting them to our own tables...we should not have to pay full shop rate for those learning on the job, nor should be lose our coin of the realm, paid trustingly, to those who would fleece us.

This is just an ONE example, oh Sage of Old Tucson Towne!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
+1 Lycosa!

I've tried to resist the urge to "contribute", but here's my 2 cents on all this.

By offering a critique, the writer is assuming the role of a teacher. What sort of teacher would offer up lessons if:
a) he didn't know the student well enough to anticipate whether the lesson would have the desired effect
b) he thought that "implied" acceptance of his role was sufficient
​

If a guy spends enough time on this forum, it's quite clear what he can expect and from whom. Short of that, the only "implied" invitation is to take your chances for better or worse.

On the subject of, "It's not about me."
- that is a remarkably bold claim
- my first thought on it was "Me thinks he doth protest to much."​

"Hi ho," (Vonnegut)

Dave
 
funny-pictures-fighting-cats-constructive-feedback.jpg
 
Well then, from now it shall be understood that my comments about knives are my opinions based on what I can garner from the photographs posted. What I am offering up is not a critique of the makers work, but only my thoughts based on my personal preferences.

There will be times that I notice something obviously wrong with a knife, and I will point it out to the maker. However, for the most part the comments I will be making will be to let the maker know how I feel about the knife. Under no circumstance will I ever refrain from giving my opinons. The makers can take my comments for what they think they are worth, but if they expect me to keep my thoughts to myself, they are not going to get what they expect.
 
I think a good critique requires asking a lot of questions of the maker, and finding out if they've fulfilled their own criteria based on their answers.

The questions would generally gravitate towards incongruities within the piece.

If there is an area of uncertainty, like Nick's story illustrates, then that is an area where thought can be applied in order to improve the piece. A real critique brings out the right questions and suggests how some of them could be answered. A critique and criticism are not the same thing, semantics aside.

Any of us can ask questions, which could lead to some useful answers.
:)
 
...and after further thought it also occurred to me that the functionality of a critique depends upon the exchange of ideas.
The internets make this more difficult, since the exchange relies upon typing out your ideas and dialog doesn't flow as it would in 'real life', with all the nuances of tone and body english.
Ideas are often truncated, and when feelings get hurt, the whole thing goes down the tubes, because it's so easy to simply avoid the controversy by leaving the scene and not responding. Much harder to repair the damage in here than when face to face dialog occurs instead, hence the value of knife shows, hammer ins etc I guess.

One big thing about knives, is how they feel. You don't and can't get that from a picture from the glowing toob. So there's a whole element of a potential critique which can't even be discovered unfortunately.
 
Are we really supposed to take all that seriously ? Knife collecting is a hobby. Can be a passion af course, but also a hobby. Opinions, effective critiques, subjective point of views... I'll take everything ! Collectors post pictures. Knifemakers usually don't. When they do we have to respect their work, as far as this work deserves it, I think. But discussion between collectors can be a free area. It's only for fun !
 
Thanks for all the links Tai :thumbup:

In here I just throw my sincere opinions! That's all! I think I never critisize any works in here :cool:

One thing is that .. people who normally critisize other people's work .. he himself doesn't like to be critisized by others .. as if all his critiques are absolute truth :cool:

Just my 2 cents :D
 
mohd said:
One thing is that .. people who normally critisize other people's work .. he himself doesn't like to be critisized by others .. as if all his critiques are absolute truth :cool:

Just my 2 cents :D
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A really good "2 cents" worth, actually so close to an absolute truth that
it is most probably worth much more... :)

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
mohd said:
One thing is that .. people who normally critisize other people's work .. he himself doesn't like to be critisized by others .. as if all his critiques are absolute truth :cool:

Just my 2 cents :D
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That's quite a generalization. I don't believe it would apply to the two examples I gave of critiques offered on the forums.

Roger
 
mohd said:
Thanks for all the links Tai :thumbup:

In here I just throw my sincere opinions! That's all! I think I never critisize any works in here :cool:

One thing is that .. people who normally critisize other people's work .. he himself doesn't like to be critisized by others .. as if all his critiques are absolute truth :cool:

Just my 2 cents :D
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yeah, I think there are those in here who believe their 'critiques' are without question. Egotistical is the way I would describe it. it's quite disgusting to watch some of these people drool all over themselves trying to show how darn smart they are.
Being a collector for 100 years may make you savvy about knives, it doesn't make you immune to being a p**k.

Brett
 
I have been following these two threads trying to figure out why there's so much controversy over whether or not and how someone should communicate their opinions, views and/or critique of a maker's or collector's post of knife photos.

If it's not perfectly clear by Webster's definition of the word Forum then it should be clear by the 58 vs. 5 vote on Peter's poll that most here feel that this is a place for the open and honest discussion of knives that are posted and it's what the vast majority of us want.

Forum; b:a public meeting place for open discussion c: a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas

First, any critique should be taken with a grain of salt as we are examining knife photos not actual knives so any questionable feature or flaw my be amplified by the photo or flaws could be hidden from view.

I think most of us are constructive, objective and sensitive of poster's feelings in the views/opinions/critiques we communicate and those who are not are usually quickly made aware.

Makers and collectors who aren't able to accept the bad with the good have an absolute remedy in just not posting their pieces.

In addition, IMO the makers with the inflated egos who believe they are above critique by mere collectors, should be made to realize by their supporting collectors of whose opinion really matters when it's time to pay the bills. ;)
 
Kevin, then what's wrong with an open discussion on open knife discussion, or critiquing critique?

I'm actually surprised that there is so much to say about a few simple links. I do think there are some good points in them,.... but, no we can't control what people will say, or how they will react to information... Some folks will take it to heart.

I think if we are going to just give a quick comment on a knife, we should keep it positive. However, if we are going to critique a piece, we need to spend a little more time, effort, thought, consideration, check our motives, do a little research, things like that before we speak... But it's not a perfect world, so...

I got a little worked up over it yesterday, but it’s really no big deal. It just is what it is...

The Old Sage of Tucson Towne
 
Tai Goo said:
Kevin, then what's wrong with an open discussion on open knife discussion, or critiquing critique?

I'm actually surprised that there is so much to say about a few simple links. I do think there are some good points in them,.... but, no we can't control what people will say, or how they will react to information... Some folks will take it to heart.

I think if we are going to just give a quick comment on a knife, we should keep it positive. However, if we are going to critique a piece, we need to spend a little more time, effort, thought, consideration, check our motives, do a little research, things like that before we speak... But it's not a perfect world, so...

I got a little worked up over it yesterday, but it’s really no big deal. It just is what it is...

The Old Sage of Tucson Towne
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I agree Tai. The "check your motives" before you critique is great advise.
Critique is too often IMO based on personnel motive and agenda, rather than objectivity, knowledge, experience and even personnel taste.
 
My experience -methinks the people who really NEED this advice - well, they just won't "get it" anyway.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Well then, from now it shall be understood that my comments about knives are my opinions based on what I can garner from the photographs posted. What I am offering up is not a critique of the makers work, but only my thoughts based on my personal preferences.

There will be times that I notice something obviously wrong with a knife, and I will point it out to the maker. However, for the most part the comments I will be making will be to let the maker know how I feel about the knife. Under no circumstance will I ever refrain from giving my opinons. The makers can take my comments for what they think they are worth, but if they expect me to keep my thoughts to myself, they are not going to get what they expect.
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Critiques are also opinions, and when ever an opinion contains criticism it becomes a “critique”. A good critique can be very helpful, while a bad critique can be very harmful. I think any criticism will be better “received” if it is balanced with some positive reinforcement for the artist and some thoughtfulness.
 
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