The Art of Critique

Kevin Jones said:
Critique is too often IMO based on personnel motive and agenda, rather than objectivity, knowledge, experience and even personnel taste.
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Are you referring to critiques of knives here on the forums, or critiques in general? If the former, please provide examples.

Roger
 
There is only one valid critic per knife and that is the person who lays their money down. When you critique a knife you are comparing it to a standard. Who here claims to run the bureau of standards? You just don't take a Daniel Winkler knife and compare it to a Buster Warenski knife. When your neighbor buys a new car and parks it on the street i don't think he is asking you what you think about it. Should he keep it in a garage or cover it with a tarp to avoid your "critique"? Unless someone asks for your opinion you should keep your comments positive or exercise your option to keep your yapper closed.

Disclaimer : The above is solely the opinion of the author and does not represent the opinion of Bladeforums or any other knife forum , knife maker, knife manufacturer or the knife buying public in general.

Johnny
 
Tai Goo said:
Critiques are also opinions, and when ever an opinion contains criticism it becomes a “critique”. A good critique can be very helpful, while a bad critique can be very harmful. I think any criticism will be better “received” if it is balanced with some positive reinforcement for the artist and some thoughtfulness.
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Tai, I agree. I always balance any negative feedback with positive reinforcement. My belief is that hitting someone with all negative feedback can be tremendously damaging to their psyche. It can cause people that with time would have become possibly great at what it was that they were attempting to do, to just throw in the towel. Positive reinforcemant at least leaves them feeling like there is something for them to build from.

I have seen critques that are based on personal agenda. These will come from people that don't like a certain maker and never seem to have anything good to post about that maker's work. It also comes from people that have financial motives for commenting about how nice certain knives look. Bladeforum members that have been around for a long time learn to recognize these critiques for what they are. New members, that don't know the history, might not be able to do so.
 
As Buddy pointed out in one of the others threads,... there is a big difference between "public" critique and "private" critique. In public critique, I think the guidelines or etiquette of critique are even more important.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Tai, I agree. I always balance any negative feedback with positive reinforcement. My belief is that hitting someone with all negative feedback can be tremendously damaging to their psyche. It can cause people that with time would have become possibly great at what it was that they were attempting to do, to just throw in the towel. Positive reinforcemant at least leaves them feeling like there is something for them to build from.
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That's because you are a polished gentleman and a scholar . :)
 
RogerP said:
Are you referring to critiques of knives here on the forums, or critiques in general? If the former, please provide examples.

Roger
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I was addressing critiques in general, as It's difficult at times to critique based solely on the example at hand while keeping relationships, emotions, personal preferences, previous experiences out of consideration.

Personal preferences for example: if I were to say; "IMO, the micarta handle takes away from the overall appearance of the Loveless knife". If this critique of a particular knife was based solely on my opinion that a piece of that stature would be better suited with amber stag, then I would feel I had made a fair and honest critique.
However if this critique was influenced by a motive to promote forged knives over stock removal or to criticize the knifemaker it would not be a fair and objective critique.

And yes, I believe examples can be found here on this forum as on other forums. Your example of my critique of the Kyle Royer hunter would not be one, however if I went back through my many post I'm sure I could find an example or two where I was not completely objective or had an agenda which possibly influenced a critique or opinion on a knife. Perhaps others here could too.

There's collectors that blow up certain makers. When these maker's knives are posted there's post after post of glowing reviews, where as at times I'm convinced that if the same knife were offered by another maker the response would be lukewarm at best. It's very easy for collectors (at times without even realizing it) to let friendships and desire to see certain makers succeed influence how they critique their knives.
 
I agree Kevin. In my opinion, it is natural to overemphasize the positive and underemphasize the negative when critiquing the knives of makers that you like and/or have worked with. It is also natural to do the opposite with makers you don't like. This really isn't the right way to do things, but it's very hard to leave personal feelings out of the equation.
 
I know I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I will stick to what I know. I rarely come to BF because IMO there is a pervasive negative atmosphere. My husband and I don't like negative energy, don't need to seek it out. However, having said that, this thread and the one STeven posted recently gives me hope that perhaps change is in the air.

In a perfect world we would treat others the way we want to be treated, and they us. Its not a perfect world. Anytime you put ANYTHING on a public forum, you are opening yourself up.....to negative, positive, hateful, uplifting, phony, dead on and ego stroking. Its a roll of the dice.

Mr. Tai Goo, I appreciate those links. If I understand your purpose correctly, you are trying to bring some understanding to the concept of critiquing that EDIFIES the receiver......without false pretense, without harsh demeaning attitudes but with the motivation of encouraging the reciever to improve their craft.. Perhaps the etiquette of online criticism will be improved, and EVERYONE will be edified.
 
I kind of agree with all the ideas here :)

Buddy is correct, you could NEVER do the kind of critique that Greg Neely did for me (in person)...via a 2 dimensional photo, online. It simply is NOT possible.

He was not trying to tell me how to style my knives, he was talking about execution and at the end... ADDED some of his thoughts on flow. One of the knives had a canted guard but a square plunge... Greg explained how he felt both should be parallel...either square or canted, to help flow.

He pointed out that how I did a canted guard/square plunge wasn't wrong, he just felt it would look better if they matched. I am now a VERY strong advocate of that same idea. I honestly didn't see it until he pointed it out. I was a grown man and could take what he said for what it was worth.... HIS opinion... but once being pointed out, I could see what he meant and it made sense to me.

Our conversation was mostly things about the plunge cuts, finish, flatness, smooth transitions, etc. Stuff you have to hold the knife to see, move it around in the light and so forth.




However!!! Even with all that said... I think there are things that can be suggested by just looking at a photo (like the guard/plunge parallelism). I see a lot of knives posted in the maker section that have ricasso's that are different widths than the front end of the handle. To me, that screams "NO FLOW" So should I say something, do they really not see that? Or do they not care? Hell, maybe they think it looks good?

You can often see grinder scratches in photos... If you can see them in a photo, think how poor that finish really is?!?! Should you suggest ways to improve it?

Sometimes photos are a little misleading like with one I posted a few years ago of a bowie of mine. It stirred up a mess because in one of the photos (professional shots, mind you) it looked like the handle and pommel were mismatched. When holding it in hand, you could see that the handle was very carefully made proud of the pommel by 0.010" (that's ten THOUSANDTHS, by the way)... and the transition was smoothed. It's a lot harder to do than simply make the two flush, but in the photo you couldn't really see that. Guys voiced their thoughts on it, and we got it ironed out.

If you just don't like their material choice, it probably isn't going to do much good to say anything. Unless.... Ah hem... they matched up fine damascus to dymondwood ;)

The only thing I can see "bad" about voicing opinions online is that you MAY keep somebody from posting. But if that's the case, they might just suck and you don't want to see their pics anyway! :p ;)
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I have seen critques that are based on personal agenda. These will come from people that don't like a certain maker and never seem to have anything good to post about that maker's work.
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Those tend to be not so much "critiques" but fairly obvious "bashing" - where the poster's dislike for the maker is hardly disguised.

Roger
 
Makers have to learn how to read forums members intent before they can decide if the negative feedback they get is from malice, or honest opinions. This can be very hard for makers that are new to the forum. They don't know anything about the people that are making the comments. Sometimes they get so upset by the negative feedback that they decide that all forums are worthless. In my opinion, makers should hang around and get to know the posting style of those that offer opinions on knives before they start to post photos of their work. If a maker's first post is a photo of a knife he has made, and he gets some criticism, there is a good chance that he will be left with bad feelings about forums and may decide they aren't a place he wants to hang out.
 
Do the collectors want more makers to post more photos of their work on this forum,... or are some collectors trying to discourage that?

There are other areas for it...

I see this board as more of a collector dominated board.
 
great post Nick. Especially the last sentence
 
I for one encourage makers to post photos of their work here.
I see it as a benefit for them in being able to showcase their work and in getting constructive feedback. It's a win/win situation for makers and collectors.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I for one encourage makers to post photos of their work here.
I see it as a benefit for them in being able to showcase their work and in getting constructive feedback. It's a win/win situation for makers and collectors.
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Thanks Kevin!

I've often gotten the feeling that makers "opinions" (and pics of their own work) might not be welcome here.
 
Tai Goo said:
I've often gotten the feeling that makers "opinions" (and pics of their own work) might not be welcome here.
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Makers photos and opinions have always been welcome here.

Many makers have participated actively from the beginning. It is MOSTLY collectors that hang out, put up pictures and such, because there is a specific place for makers, which you know already.;)

People say that BladeForums can be less than polite sometimes, but why would you think that opinions or pics might not be welcome?

Babbling tirades are discouraged, but beyond that, Forumites are pretty accomodating.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi Tai,
Thanks for this thread,good reading and very interesting.
Along with Peter's Kumbaya thread and the responses in both,
I feel that the forum has changed and only time will tell,how much.
Hopefully more makers will visit,and post images,AND their opinions,how could that be anything but an asset to the forum.
I also feel from reading everyone's posts in these two threads that I know where they stand, a little better.
I am proud to be a member of this forum and the knowledge I've gleaned in the short time I've been here has been...
..only time will tell.
I'll end now as I don't post very well and I usually say too much when I get on a roll. :)
Thanks again,man. :thumbup:

Doug
 
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