The Blade Show-A LOT of Overpriced Customs

Sanchez said:
Hey WWG--- You have no right to tell Don what Don should do. Why don't you try to learn all of the facts of his situation before you open your trap? What would you say to those who say that you do not know what Don has been through because you can not make any money off of him? YOU OWE HIM AN APOLOGY--PUBLICY

All the best---Dirty

WWG, makers are people too. You should really look at the personal side of a maker before you pass judgement on them as to what they do or should do. This is not a perfect world and even the best makers in the field are human and have problems. Some things we have no contol over. Don has been going through some personal issues that I hope you or I NEVER have to deal with. I know plenty of makers who should be at different stages in their career but life got in the way. The life of a full time maker is not an easy one.

Bobby
 
Hi Bobby and Sanches,

You need to read my whole post(you can tell you guys are makers). BUSINESS>>>>>BUSINESS>>>>>>BUSINESS>>>>>BUSINESSS is what I am talking about. Not makers feelings, not makers skills, not makers abilities...BUSINESS!

When I looked at this web site his show schedule for 2004 did not say the Reno Show. Of course there was no update past then.

You will also note I wrote that if he wasn't going to shows for personal reasons that is a whole different thing. Being self employed myself I can fully appreciate how "personal matters" can eat up time away from your job.

Don has/was being used as an example throught the thread as was Tim Hancock. Both are being used because people know them and they have exceptional skill. As well they charge a lot of money for their knives. Im sure 12 people will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe both Tim Hancock and Kit Carson have some medical issues (That none of us would wish on anyone).

I know Kit has had a hell of a few years. Just this year a piece of machinery tried to bite his finger off and his shop was struck by lightning.

That said, you want real problesm, try being 3 years old, have AIDS and live in Africa where you have no medical care and even if you did you will probably starve to death before you recieve it. Bobby and Sanchez....now those are promlems.

What I have written about are reasons why some knives are good investments. How to pick them and the Business of Custom Knives. No matter how well something is done, it can always be done better.

That is the reason most of you guys become makers. You saw a knife and said "I can do that better".

Yes, my ideas cost money as Gaussian pointed out. I don't understand the concept where anyone in business expects things to happen for free? How many makers out there just expect an article to appear in a magazine? If you want to win an award...you have to buy a table at the show. If you want people to see your current work on your web site, you have to have photos (which means you either buy a camera or you pay a photographer).

As for the CPA. I always find it odd that people who want to be paid for their unique abilities are some of the last who wish to pay others for their unique abilities...such as a CPA. Gaussian, you're right they do charge a lot of money. You can probably do all of your own record keeping and fill out your own tax return, file those quarterly taxes, file your state quarterly taxes, the unemployment compensation forms every quarter, keep track of the taxes, FICA and medicare funds you remove, etc. But wait, that takes time away from making knives. Which means you are not making money because you working on bookeeping and taxes. The good news is your not paying any money.

So your not making any money but your not paying any money. Odd way for a business to make a profit.

Oh and by doing all this yourself you get the extra added bonus, should you be audited (because maybe you did your taxes right and maybe you didn't). You get to go by yourself to the audit. If you have a CPA prepare your taxes the IRS Has to go through him or her first. Plus you have somene on your side of the table that knows what is going on. Imagine how long an audit would keep you out of the shop?

A CPA will set you up in the correct business type, they will help you maximize your deductions (did you know that CPA Fees are a tax deduction for your business), provide you with help if and when you get letters from the IRS or State Revune Department.

Gaussian, you must think your CPA is worth the money or you would stop utilizing their services. I just found it odd that someone who pays the money for a CPA would tell others not too.

Hi Steve Roos,

Im very familiar with Herman's work. I have one of his fighters in my collection. I also know he did a few shows out west. But that was after about 10 years of not doing shows. He is one of those world class makers that very few collectors of the last 10 years would know about.

WWG
 
my point wasn't that you shouldn't use a CPA, only that there is no point in hiring a CPA just 'because'. if someone's financial situation requires the use of a CPA, then by all means it's the right choice (as it is my current situation). however, if i could do it myself without much trauma i would.

getting rid of my CPA expenses will help me maintain a lower hourly rate for my clients. so if i can do without (and will probably be able to in 2007), i will.
 
Hi Gaussin,

Fair enough. I think you would agree that part of the reason you can get rid of your CPA is that because you used one you know understand how to fill out all of forms necessary for your business.

Not every business requires the help of a CPA long term. But for those who do not understand the different types of business setups that the US has as well as the ever changing US tax code. It will probably be in their best interest to hire one for at least a year.

WWG
 
Hi Mike,

Went to Knife Legends web site and got this:

"Trade-In Policy: You may trade in any knife purchased from KnifeLegends.com for 100% of what you paid, excluding shipping, within 6 months of purchase, towards a knife or knives of at least 30% greater in value. The trade in must be in the same condition as when it was sold."

Question for you. Do the knives go bad after 6 months? Although it is nice to see someone offering something.

What would you think about a dealer who has no time limit built into their trade in policy?

WWG
 
The above trade in policy is not about knives going bad, it's about pulling in repeat customers to buy more expensive knives. (Or maybe that was the point?)
 
Hi Dave,

Exactly right. However, they are only giving their customers a 6 month window of opportunity.

If they want long term repeat business (as all business does) you would think they would give their clients a longer term than 6 months (hence my comment do the knives go bad...obviously they don').

Dave what would you think of a Custom Knife Dealer who did not have a time limit?

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Imagine having a collection valued at over $50,000 and having less than $5,000 invested in it. Now that is a collection that is also an investment portfolio. Even if I had to liquidate quickly and only received 20cents on the dollar, I would have still doubled my money.



WWG

les how many customers of yours made a profit of $45k last year?
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Dave what would you think of a Custom Knife Dealer who did not have a time limit?


I'm not Dave (and I don't play one on TV), but it's a "win-win" situation for the business and the customer.

The business has the ability to achieve two of ultimate goals in retail. . . . .a repeat customer and increased cash flow.

For the customer, it gives them the ability to participate in product upgrade, which can in turn, under the right circumstances, increase their investment value.

I think that it's a very smart move !
 
A few quick points about knives as investments.

1) A guy who pays $500 for a knife and sells it immediately thereafter for $1200 is an arbitrageur. He has not made an investment, per se, he has exploited a market inefficiency by purchasing a knife for a significant discount to its current market value. By definition, arbitrage opportunities, when they exist, are exploited until they are gone. In the case of Kit Carson, he allows an arbitrage opportunity to exist with just about every knife he sells, and generally that opportunity lasts about 4 nanoseconds and is limited in scale by Kit's production. His customers are very happy with his pricing, and are more likely to buy another knife from him when they can.

2) Now, a guy who buys a knife at current market value (say, a Carson Model 4 at $1200) and realizes a profit as the market value increases over time is a successful investor.

3) A dealer who has $5,000 cash into a collection worth $50,000 is not some brilliant investor - he's just conveniently ignoring all the business earnings he has locked into that collection.

4) A lot of makers' knives increase in market value as the maker's work improves, his collector base grows, and his name and reputation grow. The percentage of knifemakers whose work continues to increase in value years after they have sold their last knife is probably in the single digits. So a knife "investor" can feel pretty smart two years after buying a knife and seeing its value increase 50%, but ask him again how smart he is ten years after that maker has exited the market. As with any investment, timing is everything.
 
I don't think WWG insulted Don.

There's no argument that Don isn't a marketer. He's an awesome craftsman, but I think that if he could just send his work to museums and collectors and get the cash deposited on his account, he'd be perfectly happy. Personally, I expect never to sell the nice pieces of his work I have (I will sell some duplicates, etc). I'll make sure they don't end up with children who don't know or care about them - better to give them to the ABS Museum.

As a side note, people who know & like Don should keep in mind that he's a very private person and has no interest in having his private life discussed. Please respect his wish for privacy.
 
Joss said:
I don't think WWG insulted Don.

There's no argument that Don isn't a marketer. He's an awesome craftsman, but I think that if he could just send his work to museums and collectors and get the cash deposited on his account, he'd be perfectly happy. Personally, I expect never to sell the nice pieces of his work I have (I will sell some duplicates, etc). I'll make sure they don't end up with children who don't know or care about them - better to give them to the ABS Museum.

As a side note, people who know & like Don should keep in mind that he's a very private person and has no interest in having his private life discussed. Please respect his wish for privacy.

No one said that Les insulted Don. I also did not reveal anything about Don's personal situation other than stating that he had personal reasons for not going to Blade or keeping his web site current.

BB
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Bobby and Sanches,

That said, you want real problesm, try being 3 years old, have AIDS and live in Africa where you have no medical care and even if you did you will probably starve to death before you recieve it. Bobby and Sanchez....now those are promlems.
WWG

I also don't know what this has to do with knives. I realize that this is a problem, but rest assured that we have Oprah, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet working on this problem even as we speak.
 
WWG and steven, thank you very much for your replies!

Kohai999 said:
Don't be upset if you take a loss when you sell the knife.

well, that's a soar point. i don't even try to sell my knives. each time i get a new one, i am quite determined to spare it. but after a month or so i am often as soft as a marshmallow. and there's always a piece of wood around that begs to be chopped in pieces. just guess how expensive these scratches are!

165968217_d988673180_m.jpg


the strange thing is: it doesn't hurt. quite the reverse! maybe i am sick :)

excellent thread, btw!

brightred
 
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