The Blade Show-A LOT of Overpriced Customs

The majority of makers who's prices are really affected by the aftermarket are part-timers who produce very few knives. Generally you can watch these makers rise on the Internet, plateau and then the demand and their aftermarket prices drop. Those makers who got caught up in this have difficulty lowering their prices. Those collectors who got caught the "fever" are now stuck with a knife they will never get their money back out of.
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This deserves a thread all its own.

Don't forget Ray's forged 52-100 integral Medicine Blade knives for $200 with sheath. I bought myself one with a snakewood handle.
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Yep, Ray provides excellent QPR!~

In all of these scenarios whose fault are the "premium" prices....the consumer! Fault may be to harsh of a word. These consumers saw the knife, thought it was a fair price and bought it. They bought what they liked.
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You are quite correct. The flavor of the month rarely stays sweet for long!

Guys, like it or not prices are going up on everything, this includes custom knives.
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That is expected! Modest price increases are usually incorporated in all walks of life. Modest being the key word here.

I have a hard time understanding more than a 10% price increase annually, especially in the types of knives I collect.
I have worked for 4 major corporations in my life and never got more than a 6% salary increase, and that was fullt taxed, unlike most knifemaker wages, if you get my drift. If Titanium and carbon fiber doubled tomorrow, I could see it affecting someone like RJ or DDR or BobT in a severe way, and a price increase would also be expected, but again, I am griping about simpler knives with simple materials for the most part.
 
Hi Anthony,

There are lots of ABS makers providing quality hunters for the money:

Hunters under $300:

Lin Rhea (New World Cutting Champion and New JS)
Gordon Graham (New JS)
Don McIntosh (New JS)
Sam Butler
Brett Gatlin
Mike Johnson
Matt Roberts (2006 Blade Show New Knifemaker of the year)

Hunters under $400:

Reggie Barker (JS and 2004 & 2005 World Cutting Champion)
Craig Camerer (JS)
Adam DesRosiers (JS)
Dan Farr (JS and 2002 Blade Show New Knifemaker of the year)
Jason Knight (JS and already doing MS work)
Shawn McIntyre (JS and the best ABS Style maker in Australia)
Terry Primos
Mike Ruth (JS and 2003 Blade Show New Knifemaker of the Year)
Brion Tomberlin (JS)
John White (JS and 2004 Blade Show New Knife maker for the Year and Peck award Winner)

Hunters under $500:

JR Cook (MS and 2006 Blade Show Best Hunter award)
Jim Walker (MS and 2005 Blade Show Best Hunter award)
Mike Williams (MS and 2004 Blade Show Best Hunter Award)

Im sure there are a few I missed and others will chime in.

Question for your Anthony:

Who are the ABS Makers doing what you feel are great Bowies for the money?

WWG
 
Personally, I want to limit the quantity of knives I own and focus on the quality. Given that, a $300 knife is less likely to be interesting to me, whatever the maker or perceived value. (In a few cases, I'll engage in opportunistic buying, but that's pretty rare).

That's one of the reasons why the Reno show is so much better for me now than Blade: concentrated quality & focus on forged knives.
__________________
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I think that is a good way to acquire some exceptional pieces from a few makers, but there are more than a few makers I would like to collect and have a self-imposed $1000 limit although I fudge that from time to time.

I am trying to get at least two knives from approx. 25 makers that I really like. Some makers, I want more than 2, some I am happy with two. In most cases a large bowie and a fighter satisfy my collection, in other cases a Bowie and hunter will have to do because I haven't found a fighter yet.
I have filled the Dean, Massey, Fisk, Fitch, R. Andrews, Jason Knight, Adam D,
Jim Crowell, Potier, McIntyre, Kilby, and Bagwell spots.

I need one more Bradshaw, Newton, J. White, Maragni, Flournoy, JM Smith and Cashen.

I am also looking for representative knife sets made by Connor, JD Smith, Wheeler, Schmidt, Fikes and Fogg.

So as you can see, that is a lot of knives by some select makers. Instead of limiting my collection to 5-10 pieces total, I have chosen to keep collecting sets of certain makers (25-30 in total) knives. I would prefer to have 8 different, unique Fisk knives than 2 really embellished pieces, but that is simply my preference.
 
Who are the ABS Makers doing what you feel are great Bowies for the money?
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By and large the same people on your list. I have examined all of their knives and with a few exceptions I think those makers provide good bang for the buck.

I also think an entry level Dean, Crowell, or Massey is a great value considering the lineage. Roger will slide in about $800 for a large bowie.

Roger Massey still delivers a 9-10" bowie for around $800 and his work is super clean.

Bailey was making some $800 bowies last year that were knockout values.
I haven't seen many from him, but they sure were nice, practical users.

A Fisk knife may be the pinnacle for some. It is for me in some ways. They are money in the bank and could be considered a good value as the knife will never be any cheaper than the day it was sold.

Russ Andrews has the best QPR of any maker I own, but he is part, part time and making less than 10 knives a year currently. His knives are some of the jewels of my collection, though.
In less-expensive knives, my old friend Matt Lamey is back with some user-grade knives that will impress, I think.
 
John White
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I really liked an 8" fighter that John brought to blade but I felt $995 was too much for a straight carbon steel knife of its size. He is 3 years behind and does impeccable work, though.
 
Anthony,
FYI, Kevin Cashen had a beautiful, large bowie on his table - 1086M, ironwood, damascus and silver furniture - for well under $1000 ($750, to be exact). It sold very early on in the show, however. Lin Rhea had a beautiful ironwood fighter for $525. Brian Tomberlin had a knockout damascus and stag fighter for $750. I thought they were very attractively priced too.
 
Lin Rhea had a beautiful ironwood fighter for $525. Brian Tomberlin had a knockout damascus and stag fighter for $750. I thought they were very attractively priced too.
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Yes, they are both referenced early on in the thread for providing solid value, but the thread is so long your probably forgot :)
 
This is a good post I always struggle with pricing.I hope I am not one who over prices and I think there are more part time makers affecting the market than full time makers. Also I would like to know where you can buy iron wood for $15 to $35. A lot of makers go and look at other makers tables to see what they are doing, I go to see how they are pricing and what is selling.
Reggie
 
Kevin Wilkins said:
OK, I'll chime in again!

Keith's statement quoted above is one I very much agree with.

I have recently had several makers tell me they can sell a $1500 knife much easier than five $300 knives. The $1500 knife must have a perceived vaue for the buyer that is in accordance with the $1500 price tag however.

It also seems the buyers who come to a show looking to spend $1500 and upwards on a knife don't even look at knives under $1000.

What do you guys think?
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I'll respond to this. I can tell you that currently,,the "fancier" Tactical style folders are selling for me at a higher rate than the same knife in CF. I don't think it has anything to do with perceived value but more to do simply with a change in whats popular.

Phillip :)
 
Anthony: I believe I had a better show than most of my neighbors. Les Robertson was right across from me, and, we had a funny thing happen with one customer who was under the assumption that a devastator from me would cost less than one from Les. Of course, Les charges my retail price. The guy ended up buying it from me. I think he was kind of embarassed-He didnt even stick around to get his $5 change, or his free knife pouch. But, it does show that some customers assume a dealer is marking up prices on their knives.
Next year, you better at least stop by and say hello, or I'm gonna be mad at you <G>

Stay Sharp,
RJ Martin
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
A Fisk knife may be the pinnacle for some. It is for me in some ways. They are money in the bank and could be considered a good value as the knife will never be any cheaper than the day it was sold.

Russ Andrews has the best QPR of any maker I own, but he is part, part time and making less than 10 knives a year currently. His knives are some of the jewels of my collection, though.
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This one is really interesting to me. I respect Jerry for a great many things. Many of his designs don't attract me, and at the prices they sell for from him, I would be scared to commit that much money, as I don't know a lot of fellow collectors that would pony up the cash if I wanted/needed to sell in a hurry. That being said, the knife might very well sell for cheaper because I might NEED the money, and sharks can smell blood.:D

I know 5 people who would take the Andrews knives that I have at any given point, even today(NO, they are not for sale). Because Russ charges such a reasonable price, produces such excellent work, and makes so few knives, his work is highly sought after.

Part timers can make things sketchy, because they are not dependant on the income of the knife for food on the table. That does not mean however, that they soil the game. Because all makers need a certain amount of tooling, materials and heavy equipment, the Mrs. might not want excess amounts of "day job" income being put into that. It means at the very least, expense-wise, that the "hobby" of making knives had better be self-sustaining, or better yet, produce a supplementary income.

It is ideal to have benchmarks of specific types to compare against.

In tactical folders, Kit Carson, John W. Smith and Bob Terzuola are great benchmarks to compare to. They are full time makers The tacticals, even in slightly spiffed up form run between $400.00-600.00. Knowing this, and the quality of work produced, you have a benchmark. Not knowing a good wine analogy, I will use whiskey.

Say these guys are like Jack Daniel's Single Barrel, highly sought after, not always available when you want it, and not priced out of the park. It is up to you to do your homework and see what other whiskeys you like, and what price you are willing to pay. Where I shop JDSB is $32.00 a bottle, vs regular Jack Daniel's which runs what, about 16.99a bottle. Now if you want your socks knocked off by something truly special, you can try Anchor Straight Rye Whiskey at $60.00 a bottle.

Can you find tactical makers that sell slightly dressed up knives for $800-$1200? Sure, and they might be worth it, but I have always felt that at that level, you are getting away from what a tactical knife was designed for, which was use at a price that did not make the AVERAGE user uncomfortable. In other words, you are moving into questionable QPR.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This one is really interesting to me. I respect Jerry for a great many things. Many of his designs don't attract me, and at the prices they sell for from him, I would be scared to commit that much money, as I don't know a lot of fellow collectors that would pony up the cash if I wanted/needed to sell in a hurry. That being said, the knife might very well sell for cheaper because I might NEED the money, and sharks can smell blood.

I know 5 people who would take the Andrews knives that I have at any given point, even today(NO, they are not for sale). Because Russ charges such a reasonable price, produces such excellent work, and makes so few knives, his work is highly sought after.
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Fisk's work is important for a variety of reasons. Firstly, he was one of the first bladesmiths to really market the craft and help popularize the knives as high performance objects. Jerry was one of the first, along with Crowell and Dean (and Connor) to move away from the "hammer" forged look and move into finer, hand satin finishes. The NLT stuff and Brazil stuff has further popularized his work, as has his factory collaborations. Personally, I love the shapes of most of his knives. the ARKANSAW camp knife is my all-time favorite big knife design, and I have used one extensiveley. The Sendero is a world class hunter for medium-large game and I have used one of them extensively too. His stuff not only looks good (to me), but actually works very well. This is something that a lot of Bladesmith's miss and one reason I drawn to the new makers like Knight, Farr, Derosiers, et al as they combine good looks, fine finish AND high performance.

The nicest bowie I saw from a finish perspective at BLADE was by Roger Green. It was 440-C. It had fit, finish, but not performance. Even though his knives are undervalued on the aftermarket, I will never own one. Its just not what my collection is about.

As far as Russ Andrews, well he is the hidden gem. His knives are finished like no-one elses and his style has developed into something special over the past few years. But alas, he is unobtanium and I am happy to get what I can get so one day I can show my son what knifemaking used to be like in the "good old days".
 
I have one knife coming from Russ this fall and another about a year after that. I find his QPR to be outstanding. He will be the first maker that I will have gotten more than one knife from. I am thinking of putting my name on his list for a knife every year or so.

Jerry Fisk is the only maker so far that I have put in an order with for a knife that will be over $2000.00...probably quite a bit over. I feel even at his prices, Jerry offers great value. His knives will never sell for less than they do at the time you get one.
 
One thing I like about Jerry is that he'll make the full range, from a fairly simple 3-piece knife to the super ornate, engraved, and pimped out (:foot: ) knife. I remember 2 years ago he had a large semi-integral dirk / bowie in Reno. If I had not spent all my money on the Fogg sword, I would have bought it.

Guys like Fisk, Fogg, and one or two dozens others are a little bit outside of the normal rule. Nowadays, a $1,500 mint Fogg bowie is a huge bargain. You're buying more than narrowly defined quality.
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
SNIP


That is expected! Modest price increases are usually incorporated in all walks of life. Modest being the key word here.

I have a hard time understanding more than a 10% price increase annually, especially in the types of knives I collect.
I have worked for 4 major corporations in my life and never got more than a 6% salary increase, and that was fullt taxed, unlike most knifemaker wages, if you get my drift. If Titanium and carbon fiber doubled tomorrow, I could see it affecting someone like SNIP
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Anthony, titanium MORE than doubled in price in 2005 and hasn't stopped going up since then either! The price increases in typical materials used in tactical knives have been double and triple digits... these are anything but modest. For me materials used to be a smaller % of the costs with labor and overhead being the most, now materials are a significant fator. I caluculate the costs of titanium per square centimeter and work out how many knive I get from a large piece... it's pretty darn depressing. Some knives use well over $50 of titanium alone! :eek:
 
regarding titanium, the resurgance of the aerospace market has had a lot to do with this. titanium stocks (like most commodities) have been way up on this the past year, and way up even since just jan - see http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=tie

will be interesting to see what the price of steel does (if anything) as consolidation of the industry starts to speed up.
 
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