The Bushcraft Series -Any Love??

LostViking

LostViking

Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
3,427
Hey folks,

I was out working my original Ontario Bushcraft knife over the weekend. It still strikes me as a very cool knife. It has me contemplating the shorter Bushcraft Utility blade. And even perhaps the Big Woodsman?

I'm kind of surprised. I thought these would take off like wildfire.

Are folks buying these? And if so, are they using them?

Pictures, stories, rumors? Anything?

From a while ago, just for reference.
IMG_3873-XL.jpg



IMG_3856-XL.jpg



It make a nice feather,
IMG_3878-XL.jpg



No photos, but it just got another coat of walnut oil. It does wonderful things to that walnut handle
 
Woodsyman seems ok for all around busy stuff. Its a big knife that can do choppy stuff and bushy stuff. Probably not as well as "True Bushy" people like for super uber performance that a nice niche knife does. But it cuts and slices good enough, its choil makes it a full multi-tool and a usable one knife option. Usable as a jack of all trades, master of one or two but it CAN do the things you need to do. Isn't that one of the main things ones looks for in a knife for survival or general use? The spine is 90 degree sharpness which adds to its multi-toolieness capabilities.
 
Hey LV,

How are you? The Bushcraft series is doing ok. Not great but they are steady. Designed by Dan Maragni. They are well thought out and designed.
One of them won Field and Stream's annual Best of the Best a few years back but they haven't taken off like I believe they should have.
Hope the ADacks are treating you well.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
V.P. of Engineering
Ontario Knife Company
 
I guess a saber ground woodsman is not in the works then. The knife would be vastly improved with g10 handles, and no sheath. The woodsman is a serious and beautiful piece of 5160, not a fan of laminated handle slabs though. The sheath was good looking, but mine didn’t last long. I prefer to keep mine in a $10 Kabar big brother sheath. Dan Maragni is a genius.
 
If you ever break the handles on a woodsman(as I foolishly did batoning a log that was too wide) you will appreciate what a work of art this knife is. I have 3 or 4 still in the box. I’ve beat on mine so hard and inappropriately that it isn’t funny. I baton more often with the rtak2 now, because of its extra length. One day I’ll make some micarta handles for this beautiful 1/4” slab of 5160 steel. Its mirror polish gives it usefulness for food prep as well as camp chores. I don’t have the smaller 2, have plenty of similar enough knives, but there isn’t anything like the Woodsman.
 
So far my Woodsman hasn't left the box. It stays in the house (climate controlled) where I take it out and love on it from time to time. I'm pretty sure my handle scales have shrunk very slightly. When new, they seemed to be sanded to a perfect fit. Now, the steel is barely proud. It may well be less than .001", but you can feel it, especially compared to when it was perfectly fit. (Edit: It is easy to feel very slight differences in height with a sharp corner like the ground or sanded edge of the proud steel. This is why I say it may be less than .001".)

Were I designing it for me, I might change the blade a bit here or there, but I would definitely go with a different handle material. I understand that wood or something like it is appropriate to the Bushcraft "concept", but I would like something tougher like micarta. Laminate is fine for some uses, some gun stocks being one, but in my opinion the fine detail in a knife handle seems too delicate when rendered in that material. I wouldn't be surprised if some corners and such chipped off with reasonably hard use.

It is a hell of a nice knife, but I do wish Ontario would at least offer some alternate scales.
 
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Tennis Tape Wrap for me for now that is.

I don't care what it looks like, I just want it to work besterier!
 
Toooj said:
Hey LV,

How are you? The Bushcraft series is doing ok. Not great but they are steady. Designed by Dan Maragni. They are well thought out and designed.
One of them won Field and Stream's annual Best of the Best a few years back but they haven't taken off like I believe they should have.
Hope the ADacks are treating you well.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
V.P. of Engineering
Ontario Knife Company
Click to expand...

Doing well Toooj, doing well.

As you probably know. This winter has been a bit of a rollercoaster weather wise. Seems we're either +39 or -12, no middle of the road.

I was downsized the Friday before Christmas. So that has allowed me some extra woods time. I'm trying new things. and polishing old techniques. Watching turkeys hunt for beechnuts, and coyotes hunt for turkeys. We also have a small moose population developing in our area. Basically, right out my back door. So that has been interesting.


I agree, they are very well thought out. I see them as kind of sleepers at this point. A very under stated/under appreciated knife.

No Mall ninja pretentions, just a solid performer. I wasn't in love with the sheath at the onset. But it has grown on me quite a bit. Holds the knife securely, room enough for any size belt, and enough of a pouch for a ferro rod. Or other small items.

I would really like to see this series take off. They just make so much sense.
In today's Scandi grind driven, Bushcraft world. This knife quietly excells at most woods tasks. It really is quite at home in the woods camp.
IMG_3851-XL.jpg


I need to get some fresh photos of my Bushcraft in action.
 
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Gun Doc said:
So far my Woodsman hasn't left the box. It stays in the house (climate controlled) where I take it out and love on it from time to time. I'm pretty sure my handle scales have shrunk very slightly. When new, they seemed to be sanded to a perfect fit. Now, the steel is barely proud. It may well be less than .001", but you can feel it, especially compared to when it was perfectly fit.

Were I designing it for me, I might change the blade a bit here or there, but I would definitely go with a different handle material. I understand that wood or something like it is appropriate to the Bushcraft "concept", but I would like something tougher like micarta. Laminate is fine for some uses, some gun stocks being one, but in my opinion the fine detail in a knife handle seems too delicate when rendered in that material. I wouldn't be surprised if some corners and such chipped off with reasonably hard use.

It is a hell of a nice knife, but I do wish Ontario would at least offer some alternate scales.
Click to expand...

After breaking mine and receiving replacements, I was advised to treat them with beeswax or sno seal, which I did. Fortunately Ontario handles are easy to make(no Becker hex-nut{for perfectionists lol}). Just 3+3holes with a drill press. As I never get tired of repeating, this blade is a work of art—take off the handles and appreciate it. When I broke them handles I was afraid Ontario would ask me to ship back the knife, because no way would I have done so. If I ever had to escape hungry wolves, I’m confident this knife would provide the crucial first step up to a high branch on a tree. Then I’d have plenty of time to reload my glock.
 
It looks like I have just cracked one of the handle slabs again, this time by apparently over-tightening one of the screws. It looks like I will finally be forced to start that micarta or wood handle project to which I’ve been looking forward for awhile. I’ll post results when I finish. The smaller bushcraft knifes used walnut, apparently this would have been too expensive on a large blade.
 
I know the OKC guys watch this thread, so I hope they read this as constructive comments. In the Bushcraft series, I own only the Woodsman, and I am very impressed with the blade.

The sheath is nice enough for the style, although it is not a style I like. I personally like something tougher and easier to clean. I would be happy to pay more for such a sheath. I cannot say for sure, but I doubt there is much of an aftermarket in sheaths for the EESE Junglas. That's a nice knife when considering only the knife, but you seldom read a review of it where the sheath does not also receive a good deal of praise. I understand it is a competitive market out there, but I sometimes wonder if knives and handguns would be better received if they were sold as a "system" with both a good product and a good way to carry it. I fully understand there will be problems fitting all users, but I believe there would be a "synergy of satisfaction" if a user got everything necessary to use a product when they opened the box. How many guns and knives lie fallow awaiting a good holster or sheath? If a good product gets used more, people like it more, word gets around, and sales go up. I cannot imagine sales are good when people buy a good product, but then don't use it much. Even if the holster or sheath is an extra purchase item, I think it would behoove the manufacturer to be proactive and insure that good options are available. SIG Sauer in particular seems to understand this. But, I digress.

As for the Woodsman handle scales, I don't know if the designer, Dan Maragni, especially likes wood scales or if he was trying to target a specific group of users. If so, I think it would have been wise to go with wood scales and a leather sheath, as I believe the two sort of go together for those who like more traditional materials. Anyway, in the end, it seems we have a knife where the scales are not nearly as tough as the blade. This is especially noticeable with a big blade. When you take a knife into the woods, there is an extremely slim chance it will be used for fighting or self-defense. If food processing is your only purpose for a large knife in the woods, then you are better served, and will save significant weight to boot, by carrying your kitchen knives. It seems to me a big reason to take a big, tough knife into the woods is wood processing of some sort. I believe a big woods knife is going to be used to chop, be batoned, or possibly both. A small knife might get beat on, but a large one stands a much bigger chance. So a set of scales not as tough as the blade really suffer on a large knife. I understand I could have gone with the SP-50 and gotten essentially the same blade with what is probably a tougher handle than the one on the Woodsman. (A tougher handle, but not necessarily a tougher tang.) I own a couple of SP-53's, and the handles do seem tough. But I doubt they are as tough as micarta. If we can get them, some of us simply prefer full length, full width tangs. That is why I chose the Woodsman over the SP-50. OKC certainly knows how to make tough micarta scales. I think they are what the Woodsman needs for it to become more popular and really take off.

Thanks for listening.
 
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Gun Doc,

Thanks for posting up!
I was unaware the big Woodsman was having handle issues. Is this a noted common issue? I thought they went to laminated wood to avoid this. How/where/why are the slabs failing?

I totally agree about the system approach. ESEE does that very well. Plus, their accessories are a profit center for them. I was an ESEE fan early on. Then faded away. Partially because of the testerone levels. I just don't need it in my off time.

But to be fair. The have reattained my interest with the Camp-Lore Series, and the HM knives. I recently snagged the RB-3 and really like it.

They offer sheath options, Molle options, clip options, and a myriad of pouch options. I have to admit. If I had to pick a factory knife because of its sheath options ESEE would win out.

Like you, I have come to view the entire system as extremely important. TKC has done very well with their aftermarket scales for ESEE knives. They now even offer a "build your own" with some models. Allowing the purchaser the ability to choose their slabs, sheath options, and pouch options. You can go from Jump Ready, to a simple belt clip. Very cool.

Obviously, a knife maker has to make what sells. Ontario does a fine job of that. And more importantly they stand behind their products. A key feature for me. The knife world has evolved a lot from the old Webster Marbles Fieldcraft. With super steels, micarta, G-10, cryo and heat treats.

If you're not careful. It can be a rabbit hole too. Many quality knife companies have gone down the drain. Because they tried to do too much, too fast. You just can't be all things to all customers.

I don't have a good answer for you. And I don't know what Ontario's path will be moving forward. But I certainly agree some built in modularity would be knice. It would be good for us, and hopefully profitable for Ontario.

I am a huge fan of incremental change. Sail out of port and alter your heading just one degree and over time. You end up in an entirely different place.

Discussion and communication is where change starts. What you and I see as obvious, may not be as clear to others. Or we may not understand the logistics or costs involved. I spend an above average amount of time in the woods. Almost always with a knife. The ability to carry, insert and extract a blade smoothly and efficiently is a huge factor. When you are on snowshoes in three feet of snow. You want your knife back in its sheath. The potential for loss is too high otherwise. Even without snow. A knife belongs in its sheath if it's not in use.

Dialog is key. Ontario is a big ship. It most likely make a 90 degree turn anytime soon. But if enough people communicate. Toooj might be able to pull off a few degrees. And down the road. We may get where we want to be.

LV,
 
I'd buy one if I didn't have 1/2 dozen similar some OKC. Like the shape and material
 
As usual I'd like to see a saber grind version of the woodsman. Even a high saber grind would fit it well.
 
My memory isn’t 100%, but I believe the woodsman was prototyped with walnut scales, but cost overruns led to the laminated scales. I’ve broken mine twice, the first time in about 12 pieces (batoning) the second is a crack (over tightening the screws?) which I’ll glue together or make a set myself. It’s not as authentic looking as the condor moonshiner.
The sheath was a nice idea, and made in the USA, but the material too thin to stop a blade with a melted plastic insert before it came to my attention.
Despite these insignificant “flaws”, this slab of 5160 is a marvel. Nothing on the camp knife market by any company comes close. I’ve seen kydex sheaths for it sell for $35, though it fits in the Kabar big brother sheath. For one handed draw seems the most economical for the user to figure this out. As poster #13 (who’s never read a post of mine on the subject) suggests, for as big a ship as Ontario is procuring leather or kydex sheaths in quantities involves enormous cost increases. I paid about $75 bucks each for 4 of them, $10-30 extra for a sheath and an hour or three’s work for better handles gives me a knife which can chop through medium sized nails with the slightest roll, or hit granite without any damage at all(at least occasionally)
The Woodsman is a great project or kit knife and economical to boot, it’s up there with the rtak2 for design imo.
 
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Lost Viking,

Thank you for your thoughts. I cannot honestly say I have data to prove the handle on the Woodsman is an issue. It certainly seems to be so for member Yonose (see post immediately above.) I own a few laminated gun stocks, so I am not against the concept of the material. The gun stocks are usually pretty well "fully infused" with epoxy or a similar binder. I do not know if this is true of the scales on the Woodsman. Either way, my engineering background and experience suggest to me that the scales are not nearly as tough as the blade, or as they could be. (Edit: I do understand no handle is truly going to be as tough as 1/4" heat treated 5160. But as far as handle material goes, they could be a lot tougher.) I am pretty confident in my logic that the Woodsman will, on average, see harder "impact use", and in general harder use than the smaller knives in the series.

Like a gun stock, the handle functions as the interface between the device (gun or blade) and the human user. Handles should be appropriate to how the device will be used, and should facilitate that use. As such, while handles should not all be the same, they can certainly be the same across a number of knives. OKC seems to use common handles on a number of knives in a "series", as do other makers. This can help cut production and tooling costs. That is why I said either earlier in this thread or on another that I would like to see OKC develop a series that used a common handle (or two), on full-length, full-width tangs, much like the KA-BAR Becker knives. I am aware of the Ranger and RAT knives, but I don't know to what degree the scales interchange within those series.

But I agree with you that I would hate to see OKC over extend themselves and jeopardize the company. I am a big fan of USA made knives, and want to see all such companies do well.
 
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LostViking said:
Hey folks,

I was out working my original Ontario Bushcraft knife over the weekend. It still strikes me as a very cool knife. It has me contemplating the shorter Bushcraft Utility blade. And even perhaps the Big Woodsman?

I'm kind of surprised. I thought these would take off like wildfire.

Are folks buying these? And if so, are they using them?

Pictures, stories, rumors? Anything?

From a while ago, just for reference.
IMG_3873-XL.jpg



IMG_3856-XL.jpg



It make a nice feather,
IMG_3878-XL.jpg



No photos, but it just got another coat of walnut oil. It does wonderful things to that walnut handle
Click to expand...
Looks like an Brkt aurora to me. That's why I never purchased one. I like the ontario knife but I own two auroras. I didn't have a need. However I am curious to try the 5160 steel I have never used it.
 
The fact that the handles aren’t as tough(how could they be?) should not deter the serious knife nut from buying the Woodsman:

In a comparison with BK&T knives; I’ve always had to change the stock handles since I don’t consider grivory appropriate for a serious knife. Aftermarket handles are available, but they cost $40-55 US. While there aren’t any aftermarket micarta or g10 scales available for the Woodsman, the owner can choose any number of alternatives, such as cord wrapped, diy micarta or hardwood. Or, as Roguer did, wrapping with hockey tape would keep the laminate together in case of fracture. For all I know, gluing them back together may even make them stronger!

I don’t think Ontario will ever offer micarta scales for the Woodsman, since the contouring of the handles would be an excessive cost. They will replace broken handles free of charge though, and I suppose measures could be taken to prevent this from happening in the first place. For one, don’t hit the handle while batoning, which I can’t say is ever appropriate if one has chosen the right size log.

The smaller bushcraft series knives are real walnut, so I believe these are not susceptible to the same issue at all.

The heat treat on this large, thick 5160 blade makes it worth at least twice as much by itself as any competitor in 1095. Ymmv. The only “ugly dents” on the spine of my woodsman resulted from pounding on it for several hours with a carpenter’s or framing hammer. A buddy needed some work done on his house and neglected to tell me he didn’t have the right tools, so I grabbed my Woodsman. (I now keep more tools in my car)

I completely agree with Gun Doc re Ontario as a company (though I wish he’d use his woodsman and add some rather more expert input on handle performance—since so far I’m the only one saying it{I don’t want die amidst “suspicious circumstances”}-lol)and hope they continue to produce some of the best blades in the world right here in the US. And the best and most affordable D2 bladed folders from Taiwan!
 
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