The Bushcraft Series -Any Love??

LostViking said:
Buckfynn,
That would have my hackles up too. Very, not cool.

I just looked at Ontario's website. I do not see two seperate SKU #s for this knife.

Only one. And it 100% says brown DeSantis sheath. I get that there are rolling changes. But this is uncool. If you had time to devalue the product. You had time to adjust the Website. This is not indictive of Toooj's way of doing business.

I do not however see where it says lanyard, and fire starter any more.

Too bad. Because these changes alter the equation.
When I made my purchase. I looked at an American made knife wearing the pants of an American Sheath maker. The ferro rod added more value. Because I use them all the time.

The Lanyard was just a piece of 550. I deemed that as a bit gimmicky at the time. But I also thought it would introduce newcomers to Para and laynyards in general.

Personally, I hate bean counters. I get that they are a necessary evil. But at times they do more harm than good.

If the Utility Knife had been available when I purchased mine. I would have went that route at the time. But, I have to admit. The price coupled with no ferro rod and a Chinese sheath suddenly looks much less attractive. Had that been the case back in the beginning. I most likely would have passed on the whole package. Again, too bad. Because my knife is actually pretty nice.

Mine also came with real Walnut slabs. I see even the smaller ones are now laminated. Again too bad.

Perhaps Ontario will chime in here.
Was this a Walmart/Big Box/Amazon purchase??

I was seriously getting ready to snag the shorter Utility version. That is on hold until this gets worked out. Personally, the Chinese sheath is a deal breaker for me.
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There is a thread started by Roguer here on the Ontario subforum regarding different sku #’s for the woodsman, where the okc mod specifically refers to this issue.
 
Perhaps,

But this isn't the Woodsman we are discussing. It's the Utility.
http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/hunting-bushcraft/bushcraft-utility.html

The link to Ontario's description of the Utility, as of right now, only shows only one knife, and one SKU #. It also specifically states DeSantis Sheath as shown below.

6527-bushcraft-utility.jpg

Bushcraft Utility


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IN STOCK

Product SKU: 6527
$139.95
  • ADDITIONAL INFO
  • TAGS
  • REVIEWS
OVERALL LENGTH 9.3 in (23.5 cm)
LOCK TYPE Fixed
HARDNESS 53-55 HRC
EDGE TYPE Plain
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN United States of America
HANDLE COLOR Brown
BLADE GRIND Full Flat Taper
BLADE FINISH Satin
BLADE COLOR Silver
BLADE THICKNESS 0.125 in (0.318 cm)
BLADE MATERIAL 5160 Carbon Steel
BLADE LENGTH 4.0 in (10.2 cm)
HANDLE MATERIAL Laminated Hardwood
SHEATH MATERIAL Nylon DeSantis®
SHEATH TYPE Brown

I will serch for the link on the Woodsman later when I have more time. Thanks Yonose!
 
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LostViking said:
Perhaps,

But this isn't the woodsman. It's the Utility.
http://ontarioknife.com/fixed-blades/hunting-bushcraft/bushcraft-utility.html

The like to Ontario's description of the Utility, as of right now, only shows one knife.
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Sorry about that, I keep forgetting there are 3 versions being sold. The only Ontario sheath I felt worth paying extra for was the kydex for the Cerberus. It had excellent retention and quiet removal for kydex. Every other sheath I’ve bought from a large scale manufacturer I’ve had to replace, except for the sp-10. I bought one at a discount without reading the full description and was shocked to see the nylon replacement. The desantis sheath on the woodsman didn’t exceed the quality of a $20 leather sheath from eBay, or even a $10 Kabar big brother sheath. I just caught myself going on about the woodsman when you guys are discussing the utility, so I’ll shut up for now.
 
No need to shut up. Your input on the handle was very good Yonose. It once again pointed out the handle/scale/coverfulltangpartofknifestuffysuff's issues that seem to arise in its earlier development. This time it was the scales in a hard use situation it seems. I got mine for a hard use camp knife where its uncoated blade also will be in the hunting gear load outs for cutting big things in to smaller things.
 
Roguer said:
No need to shut up. Your input on the handle was very good Yonose. It once again pointed out the handle/scale/coverfulltangpartofknifestuffysuff's issues that seem to arise in its earlier development. This time it was the scales in a hard use situation it seems. I got mine for a hard use camp knife where its uncoated blade also will be in the hunting gear load outs for cutting big things in to smaller things.
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I love a good “spear point” design, being much more versatile in a camp knife
 
I love the spear point to, hence my love of the SP-51 and broke down and got the Woodsman over the SP-50 and even got an RTAK II what I can't get more due to having to pay evil vile taxes now.
 
Roguer said:
I love the spear point to, hence my love of the SP-51 and broke down and got the Woodsman over the SP-50 and even got an RTAK II what I can't get more due to having to pay evil vile taxes now.
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I got the sp50 before the woodsman came out and the woodsman’s full tang and guard/choil have made my sp50 feel useless.
 
You could strip it and use it for multi-tool duties like bigger game processing and kitchen duties. :D That was one main reason I got the Woodsman for the extra things it can do.
 
Roguer said:
You could strip it and use it for multi-tool duties like bigger game processing and kitchen duties. :D That was one main reason I got the Woodsman for the extra things it can do.
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That’s what I’m using the woodsman for already! I need to sell some knives, but I can’t afford the upgrade here at the moment and am uncomfortable selling knives on eBay. I see prices starting to rise a little here on the exchange for certain knives. Unfortunately the sp50 was selling for $45 on the web lately. I’m hoping I get some cash back on my tax return!
 
LostViking said:
No worries sir.
No need to keep quiet. Your input is very valuable. We just got crissed crossed for a moment.
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Roguer said:
No need to shut up. Your input on the handle was very good Yonose. It once again pointed out the handle/scale/coverfulltangpartofknifestuffysuff's issues that seem to arise in its earlier development. This time it was the scales in a hard use situation it seems. I got mine for a hard use camp knife where its uncoated blade also will be in the hunting gear load outs for cutting big things in to smaller things.
Click to expand...

I agree with Lost Viking and Roguer, your conversation and input has been interesting and helpful for me as well. I rescale some of my knives for various reasons and I always like to see how other people make theirs. So no need to think you should not be included in the conversation here.
 
I only know that whenever I look at my Woodsman or a picture of one of the other Bushcraft knives, I imagine it with micarta scales and give a wistful sigh.

I suppose one might argue that micarta scales would make the series a lot like other knives from Ontario and other makers. But the Bushcraft knives are 5160, which sets them apart at least a bit.

I don't know if the choice of handle material was a cost measure or to appeal to the bushcrafters out there. I sort of understand that, except that it seems to me if you want traditional wood scales on your knife then you would want solid wood as opposed to laminated. Also, you should use only leather or canvas backpacks, wear wool instead of modern insulation, etc. My point being I wonder if my postulated target market is relatively small and if the knives would appeal to more people in the long run with better scales? And I know I am repeating from an earlier post, but if the goal was to be traditional, the nylon and plastic sheath is all wrong.
 
buckfynn said:
I agree with Lost Viking and Roguer, your conversation and input has been interesting and helpful for me as well. I rescale some of my knives for various reasons and I always like to see how other people make theirs. So no need to think you should not be included in the conversation here.
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Well thank your sirs; as you can see from my pics I did a pretty lousy job drilling the second, larger “hole” where the screws hold the scales to the blade. I wasn’t expecting the wood to grab onto the bit as much as it did, either the result of using the wrong kind of bit or something else. I’ll have to order some micarta to make the scales look “right.” I don’t believe I have enough left to make them the proper size. I’m a glass half full customer of Ontario—they would pretty much have to switch to 420HC in all their blades to lose my business!
I think I broke my handles the first time I really used it, showing a friend what batoning was. I grabbed an oversized log in my enthusiasm, and thwacking on the scales split them into many pieces. What I saw underneath the scales was what made me such a fan of the knife. It was beautiful! I can understand that most people want a knife with a flawless handle and sheath for their hard earned dollars! But I look at BK&T knives for comparison, and I don’t see grivory or hylon filling my requirements for a knife. I need to pay $40 just for micarta scales, and to me it’s equivalent, except that there aren’t aftermarket options for Ontario knives.(although one can always order micarta slabs from Ontario to replace handles from the ranger knife series, and I imagine for the rat line as well.) The ugly new nylon sheaths were supposed to save customers a substantial amount of money, though initially some including myself got surprised after paying regular price and expected the old sheath, only to almost puke when seeing the new sheath.
Imo usually only handcrafted knives come with truly great sheaths, with the exception of maybe Bark River knives and a few others. I always expect to upgrade a sheath when buying from any large manufacturer. Often the handles as well, but this is a first for Ontario (that I know of).
I know Ontario has in stock leather sheaths for 3 knives they no longer produce for $20, one of them the bagwell bowie. I wonder which if any of these sheaths would fit the woodsman, rd9, rat7 etc but I can’t find the dimensions of these out of production knives
 
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The Woodsman seems to be the only one with the one with the laminated handle. Other people here can tell us how tough walnut scales are I bet.
 
Roguer said:
The Woodsman seems to be the only one with the one with the laminated handle. Other people here can tell us how tough walnut scales are I bet.
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Apparently the newer Utility knife now has the laminated scales. It looks like Ontario no longer offers the original walnut scales on that model. See Lost Viking's post #42 where he shows the data directly from Ontario's website.
 
Walnut is one of the best choices for natural wood scales. Unfortunately it seems the cost of materials has risen out of proportion to the original anticipated costs. With the handle design of the Woodsman, being 3D contoured rather than flat, even micarta and g10 would be IMO cost prohibitive. I assume that it’s the same for the utility version as well. When I got a condor moonshiner it was less than $50, including walnut handle slabs and great leather sheath. Unfortunately for US manufacturing, quality leather, real walnut adds a huge difference to the cost. Although the cost difference could be a sign of the health of the economy. Much of Latin America’s economies have been decimated lately, so a dollar spent there goes a lot further than it does here, not only on labor but on materials cost as well.
One thing that Ontario is doing that most large producers are not is using 5160 steel, which according to the experts is a much better choice for blades that see heavy use. It also maintains an edge as long as it needs to, since .6% carbon is optimal. I hope Ontario keeps making fantastic, affordable blades here in the US out of American made 5160 long after I’m gone!
 
Gun Doc said:
I only know that whenever I look at my Woodsman or a picture of one of the other Bushcraft knives, I imagine it with micarta scales and give a wistful sigh.

I suppose one might argue that micarta scales would make the series a lot like other knives from Ontario and other makers. But the Bushcraft knives are 5160, which sets them apart at least a bit.

I don't know if the choice of handle material was a cost measure or to appeal to the bushcrafters out there. I sort of understand that, except that it seems to me if you want traditional wood scales on your knife then you would want solid wood as opposed to laminated. Also, you should use only leather or canvas backpacks, wear wool instead of modern insulation, etc. My point being I wonder if my postulated target market is relatively small and if the knives would appeal to more people in the long run with better scales? And I know I am repeating from an earlier post, but if the goal was to be traditional, the nylon and plastic sheath is all wrong.
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I don’t know if they’ve sold enough for aftermarket handles to appear on secondary, but I’ve got some micarta, at 3/8” is thick enough for Becker handles and probably the woodsman as well. Once I upgrade my membership here I can (hopefully Ontario wouldn’t mind) whip out a few handles for the Woodsman and sell them for what Ontario charges for their scale replacements.(under $20) I don’t remember if the guard on the Woodsman is thicker than 3/8” though.
 
I almost lost my Woodsman recently. I went to Tatci-test it on Tyrannical Botanicals but it disappeared! So I grabbed the SP-53, did some clearing and stuff seeing my little brother is way faster with his than mine, I got back wondering where my dang Woodsman went. Stayed for the free meal when I found out it was MEAT and saw a knife being put on the magnetic knife holder on the waller...and there it was! My little sister saw the knife and thought it was a kitchen knife and used it to cut up the raw parts of dinner with it! She even scrubbed the sticky stuff off the handle where the tape was I took off to change it for a good chopping fest. She asked why I was taking the new kitchen knife till she saw I put it in the sheath. "Hey a sheath for a cooking knife for camping!" she said. :rolleyes:o_O Well it does look like a kitchen knife with the laminated handle I guess.
 
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Yep, cheap way to the Woodsman Grippier is taping the handle with what ever athletic grade tape if your going to use it for more than one or two whacks or slices. It makes it way easier to control.
 
My Woodsman just arrived last week along with a SP5. I will get some pics loaded and some thoughts after some use.

First impression of the Woodsman is exactly as has been stated earlier by several of you in this thread. The blade is incredible. It’s flat ground uncoated surface is a thing of beauty. The handle scales are fine but I can already tell an errant strike from a baton or rock will break them. The sheath is serviceable but will not survive regular use for more than a few years of outings. The sharp spine is great, it’s almost like having two more cutting surfaces. The handle ergos are good but a little bit too narrow for my hand. SP Kraton handles are more palm filling.

I do believe though for the current selling price, you get an amazing carbon steel knife that will perform well at many many tasks.
 
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