The Bushcraft Series -Any Love??

Toooj said:
Guys,

Thanks for the input on the handles.
We will investigate.

Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
V.P. of Engineering
Ontario Knife Company
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Took,

I apologize if my rough use and review has caused any embarrassment over at Ontario. I really believe this is the toughest slice of steel I’ve owned(compares very favorably with Swamp Rat’s sr-77) and that Dan Maragni has done an awesome job with this one. I wish these would sell out, and I wish I had worked on a design for cheaper aftermarket handles($20)for this blade instead of wasting my time working(unsuccessfully) on a cheaper BK&T knife handle. I would bet my life on this blade!


Dave
 
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These are far from pretty but my first attempt at making handles out of scrap hardwood floor planks. I knew my warranty on the handles was void since I cut the wood off by the pommel.
 
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I would upgrade the design with a downward sweeping pommel to get a better backwards grip while chopping
I would certainly buy micarta grips also
 
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Revolverrodger said:
I would upgrade the design with a downward sweeping pommel to get a better backwards grip while chopping
I would certainly buy micarta grips also
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I’ve smoothed down the handles to make changing hand easier: The next set I make will definitely be canvas or linen micarta— much more forgiving to work with imo than wood!
 
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The Ontario Bushcraft series has been on my radar since they were first introduced. I contemplated between getting the 5" Field knife and the 4" Utility knife. Considering I have many knives in the 5" range and have been gravitating toward shorter blades, I opted for the Utility knife.

A description of the Ontario Utility knife is shown below.
"Ontario Bushcraft Utility Fixed Blade Knife 4" Clip Point 5160 Carbon Steel Blade Walnut Handle
Features
  • Paracord lanyard
  • Fire starter with striker
  • DeSantis sheath
  • Flat ground blade
  • Full tang construction
The OKC Bushcraft Knife was hand-crafted to give bushcrafters everything they demand in a survival blade. The blade is five inches of 5160 steel with a high, off center point. The flat-ground design allows for an increased cutting surface and a fine wood carving and meat cutting ability. Featuring a sheath by renowned holster manufacturer DeSantis, an American Walnut hardwood handle, a paracord lanyard and a fire-starter with striker, the Buschcraft Field Knife is an entire survival system."

A photo of the Ontario Utility knife and contents as shipped from the vendor.


The good:
The fit and finish on the knife is very good. The grind was very good with even and uniform grind lines. The overall quality of of materials seemed to be OK.

The bad:
The first thing I noticed upon opening the box was the ferro rod, striker, and lanyard were not included as advertised by the vendor. Also a black Chinese made sheath was sent as opposed to the tan DeSantis sheath.

The knife is very handle heavy and uncomfortable for me. I get the impression the design was an after thought of shortening the blade of the Field knife while not shortening the handle on the Utility knife. The knife might work for someone else, it definitely doesn't work for me. The knife will be returned to the vendor for a refund.

Overall I am underwhelmed with the Ontario Utility knife. I don't recommend it. And I doubt if I would buy another one in the Bushcraft series.

Below are two photo comparing the size of the Utility knife to some other Ontario knives.
From top to bottom; RAT7, RAK, TAK-1, Utility, RAT3.


From top to bottom; RAT7, RAK, SK-5, TAK-1, Utility, RAT1, RAT3. And a carbon fiber D2 RAT1 on the side.
 
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I don’t own the smaller versions. Most if not all of my 4.5” and under blades are in stainless or d2. The vendor should have stated that the knife came with plain black sheath and no ferro.
The woodsman is about 9” of .25” thick 5160 steel with perfect heat treat.
 
Yonose said:
I don’t own the smaller versions. Most if not all of my 4.5” and under blades are in stainless or d2. The vendor should have stated that the knife came with plain black sheath and no ferro.
The woodsman is about 9” of .25” thick 5160 steel with perfect heat treat.
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My intent here is not to play the blame game, whether it be the vendor or Ontario, concerning what was advertised and what was actually sent. However it is never good when a customer is shipped something different than what was promissed. But I must ask why in the world did Ontario switch from the DeSantis sheath to the cheaper quality Chinese made sheath?

Also the description from the vendor in the above post is a little wonky as it is unclear that it is for the Utility or Field knife. But checking several other vendors all descriptions included the ferro rod, striker, lanyard, and DeSantis sheath for both the Field and Utility models.

I have no problem with 5160 being used on the shorter blades. I have over a dozen and a half knives made with 5160 from other makers and they have all performed to my expectations. And for whatever it is worth, my collection, if you want to call it that, is well over 300+ fixed blade knives and is comprised of just about every steel out there.
 
buckfynn said:
My intent here is not to play the blame game, whether it be the vendor or Ontario, concerning what was advertised and what was actually sent. However it is never good when a customer is shipped something different than what was promissed. But I must ask why in the world did Ontario switch from the DeSantis sheath to the cheaper quality Chinese made sheath?

Also the description from the vendor in the above post is a little wonky as it is unclear that it is for the Utility or Field knife. But checking several other vendors all descriptions included the ferro rod, striker, lanyard, and DeSantis sheath for both the Field and Utility models.

I have no problem with 5160 being used on the shorter blades. I have over a dozen and a half knives made with 5160 from other makers and they have all performed to my expectations. And for whatever it is worth, my collection, if you want to call it that, is well over 300+ fixed blade knives and is comprised of just about every steel out there.
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Ontario actually has 2 different stock numbers for the knife with and without the stock sheath/ferro rod, so it is vendor mix up. Ontario switched to save money. My desantis sheath, though good looking, wasn’t a thick, cordura style fabric that would stand up to side carry while crawling through the bush. I switched it out for a leather one and haven’t been disappointed. 8oz Leather sheaths are available for your knife at << deleted>>for about $13 all in.
As t turns out, I do own several shorter fixed blades in carbon steels, but they are over 100 year old skinners from Solingen that don’t see use, just occasional show and maintenance.
 
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buckfynn said:
The Ontario Bushcraft series has been on my radar since they were first introduced. I contemplated between getting the 5" Field knife and the 4" Utility knife. Considering I have many knives in the 5" range and have been gravitating toward shorter blades, I opted for the Utility knife.

A description of the Ontario Utility knife is shown below.
"Ontario Bushcraft Utility Fixed Blade Knife 4" Clip Point 5160 Carbon Steel Blade Walnut Handle
Features
  • Paracord lanyard
  • Fire starter with striker
  • DeSantis sheath
  • Flat ground blade
  • Full tang construction
The OKC Bushcraft Knife was hand-crafted to give bushcrafters everything they demand in a survival blade. The blade is five inches of 5160 steel with a high, off center point. The flat-ground design allows for an increased cutting surface and a fine wood carving and meat cutting ability. Featuring a sheath by renowned holster manufacturer DeSantis, an American Walnut hardwood handle, a paracord lanyard and a fire-starter with striker, the Buschcraft Field Knife is an entire survival system."

A photo of the Ontario Utility knife and contents as shipped from the vendor.


The good:
The fit and finish on the knife is very good. The grind was very good with even and uniform grind lines. The overall quality of of materials seemed to be OK.

The bad:
The first thing I noticed upon opening the box was the ferro rod, striker, and lanyard were not included as advertised by the vendor. Also a black Chinese made sheath was sent as opposed to the tan DeSantis sheath.

The knife is very handle heavy and uncomfortable for me. I get the impression the design was an after thought of shortening the blade of the Field knife while not shortening the handle on the Utility knife. The knife might work for someone else, it definitely doesn't work for me. The knife will be returned to the vendor for a refund.

Overall I am underwhelmed with the Ontario Utility knife. I don't recommend it. And I doubt if I would buy another one in the Bushcraft series.

Below are two photo comparing the size of the Utility knife to some other Ontario knives.
From top to bottom; RAT5, RAK, TAK-1, Utility, RAT3.


From top to bottom; RAT5, RAK, SK-5, TAK-1, Utility, RAT1, RAT3. And a carbon fiber D2 RAT1 on the side.
Click to expand...

Is that RAT 5 a metric number RAT 5 in the picture there? o_O
 
Buckfynn,
That would have my hackles up too. Very, not cool.

I just looked at Ontario's website. I do not see two seperate SKU #s for this knife.

Only one. And it 100% says brown DeSantis sheath. I get that there are rolling changes. But this is uncool. If you had time to devalue the product. You had time to adjust the Website. This is not indictive of Toooj's way of doing business.

I do not however see where it says lanyard, and fire starter any more.

Too bad. Because these changes alter the equation.
When I made my purchase. I looked at an American made knife wearing the pants of an American Sheath maker. The ferro rod added more value. Because I use them all the time.

The Lanyard was just a piece of 550. I deemed that as a bit gimmicky at the time. But I also thought it would introduce newcomers to Para and laynyards in general.

Personally, I hate bean counters. I get that they are a necessary evil. But at times they do more harm than good.

If the Utility Knife had been available when I purchased mine. I would have went that route at the time. But, I have to admit. The price coupled with no ferro rod and a Chinese sheath suddenly looks much less attractive. Had that been the case back in the beginning. I most likely would have passed on the whole package. Again, too bad. Because my knife is actually pretty nice.

Mine also came with real Walnut slabs. I see even the smaller ones are now laminated. Again too bad.

Perhaps Ontario will chime in here.
Was this a Walmart/Big Box/Amazon purchase??

I was seriously getting ready to snag the shorter Utility version. That is on hold until this gets worked out. Personally, the Chinese sheath is a deal breaker for me.
 
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A quick search still shows dealers saying nylon sheath. With the DeSantis in the photo. (Brown/Tan)

Pricing of around $90.00.
While the ESEE 4HM (Handle Modified) comes in at $110.00 with an American made leather sheath 1095 steel, and micarta slabs.

Another dealer has them at $65.00 for the Ontario.
And $87.00 for the ESEE

But this dealer specifically states Desantis sheath.
 
Lost Viking,

I understand that rolling changes can and do happen. But such shouldn't be used as an excuse for not working in unison with vendors to update descriptions to match the products actually being sold. And, as I already said before, I am not here to place blame on the vendor or Ontario.

I still think the Ontario Bushcraft Series is an excellent idea, however IMO the overall concept of the design and marketing was rather poorly executed. We as a consumer don't know all the ins and outs of why Ontario has made their changes to this series. But, like you, I am curious to hear a response from Ontario concerning their rational for such changes.

The knife wasn't purchased from Amazon, eBay, Walmart, Any Big Box Store, or other fly by night business. I prefer not to step into a gray area of blade forums rules and discuss a non authorized dealer. I will say that I have purchased many goods from this online vendor for over 15 years and never had a problem until this purchase.

As for ESEE, I drank the cool aide to the tune of 15 knives costing roughly $2000. All went well until I had a major problem with an Izula II. Long story short, it had a bad grind on it even after it was "fixed" by Rowen and sent back to me. The scales were also wonky on it. At that point I get the "we don't want you as a customer" from one of the owners and was sent a money order in return for me sending the knife back to ESEE. Needless to say I would never buy another ESEE knife again nor do I recommend them.

Even though I didn't care for the Utility knife, I have been pleased with all other Ontario's. I will continue to purchase additional Ontario knives and recommend the ones I like.

Perhaps I might be willing to give some additional details of our discussion through a different venue at another time.

I must add I have always enjoyed your knife reviews. They are always par excellence, keep up the great work!
 
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