The Chinese Made “D2” Explosion

Nathan the Machinist said:
but a good D2 with an optimal heat treat can outperform a lot of the popular super steels in real world edge retention.
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For the OPs purposes do you think he's likely to find high quality d2 or even an optimal heat treat in a $20 knife? I have a $20 amazon knife from eafengrow that's almost as hard to sharpen as actual super steel but doesn't hold an edge half as long as my 1095 kabar. The day I got this knife I cut up a length of summer sausage then opened my back door and chucked it in to my fence and it stayed there for a week and didn't rust so it's definitely not d2. I don't know what specific knives the OP is talking about but these pop up quite a bit on amazon if you've ever purchased a knife and it's not even close to american made d2.
 
GalvanizedHero said:
For the OPs purposes do you think he's likely to find high quality d2 or even an optimal heat treat in a $20 knife? I have a $20 amazon knife from eafengrow that's almost as hard to sharpen as actual super steel but doesn't hold an edge half as long as my 1095 kabar. The day I got this knife I cut up a length of summer sausage then opened my back door and chucked it in to my fence and it stayed there for a week and didn't rust so it's definitely not d2. I don't know what specific knives the OP is talking about but these pop up quite a bit on amazon if you've ever purchased a knife and it's not even close to american made d2.
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Just so we are clear, I am not looking for and $20 clone knives now or ever. I was just curious how the Chinese-Made knives are being made with D2 for such low prices when the prices are double or more for a US or EU blade in the same steel. It appears there are several D2-like steel formulations available in China, and that is what is being used in these knives. With a proper heat treat, they are very good blades. With a bad one... well... you can guess it’s not going to be pretty. I can’t think of ANY knives made with D2 that are $20. That “Amazon” knife you are talking about is just a clone with garbage steel. THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT. I am talking about knives like the Cutjack, The Boker Plus Lateralus, Rat 1 D2, Bestech Scimitar, etc. These knives are in the $40-$100 range, and made by companies that have a reputation and presence in the US marketplace. If a company is willing to steal designs, what makes you think they would be honest about the steel they use?
 
Mo2 said:
for those who dont know all the different d2's check out zknives with all the Proprietary Equivalents

http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=d2
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Thanks for this, I thought this was a forum for knife lovers, I didn’t realize I would need to post this. Now I understand why no one hade any idea what CR12MoV is. Sure, they make AISI D2 in China, but the MAJORITY of the steel sold as D2 over there is the Cr12MoV, as it lacks the Vanadium and is cheaper to produce.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
There are plenty of versions of D2 including import, domestically produced, CPM partial metallurgy, spray formed PSF27, electro slag re-melt. Plenty of chemistry variations too. There are lots of versions of D2 that behave differently and have different heat treat response.

It's an old school alloy without marketing behind it that isn't very glamorous but the fact is it can frequently outperform many super steels in real world use. It doesn't enjoy the reputation it could because there are plenty of sorry examples of it out there, but a good D2 with an optimal heat treat can outperform a lot of the popular super steels in real world edge retention.

But there are certainly many versions of it, some being better than others.
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This is exactly what I was getting at Nathan. My hypothesis is that the recent knives that have been tested on YouTube Channels like Cedric Ada have different results because some are using something along the lines ok K110 at a higher Rockwell, and others are using the Chinese Cr12MoV and probably a lower Rockwell. Also, I would think going from nearly no Vanadium in the Chinese steel to almost 1% in K110 would mean the K110 should cut longer. Thoughts?
 
GalvanizedHero said:
dhgate absolutely lies about their steel
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Since dhgate doesn't actually make anything, they can't lie about "their" steel. Honestly, it seems like you just joined the site and you're making a ton of noise, none of which seems to be actually advancing the conversation about the topic at hand. I'm sure you mean well, but there's that old saying — "lurk more" — and that's my advice to you.
 
I wonder if any of the manufacturer's listed might actually be willing to shed some light on the subject? Maybe a U.S-based company like Steel Will? They probably don't want to get into production specifics but who knows. Might be worth an e-mail.
 
SpySmasher said:
I wonder if any of the manufacturer's listed might actually be willing to shed some light on the subject? Maybe a U.S-based company like Steel Will? They probably don't want to get into production specifics but who knows. Might be worth an e-mail.
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Steel Will is Italian if I'm not mistaken.
 
I only have one D2 blade, a Real Steel Bushcraft 2. Yup, Chinese brand. Dunno if it's real D2. Mine is a scandi-grind but I've put a 40-degree inclusive microbevel on it. Definitely holds a shaving edge for quite a long while. Not as brittle as I'd feared, but Real Steel does state the HRC at 58-60. It seems to have a natural tendency to be a bit toothy, very aggressive slicer for sure. Re-sharpening wasn't a big deal, but re-profiling was quite a bit of work. Basically, I bought it with some expectations based on research on D2, and it does seem to perform as expected, so if it isn't real D2, then it's pretty darn close. I too wonder why they'd go through the trouble of importing American steel and then exporting back out again. Makes more sense for them to use their own steels especially if they're a Chinese company.
 
1. I doubt steelwill has flowdown documentation, certificate of conformance testing documentation, etc.
2. They have no real benefit of sharing that information even if they did have it.

People are all worked up about this but it's kind of comical- either the knife performs or it doesn't.

Price is not just about the product itself but also about the service after the sale. As long as the company stands behind their product then it's not really a big deal. If your unhappy with the performance of your knife then send it back for a fix or replacement.
 
Rewind to when Sal Glesser started the Byrd line. At first the knives were labeled as the steel being 440C. Sal ran chemical analysis tests and determined the steel didn't meet the specs for 440C. Long story short, the company supplying the steel was using 8Cr13MoV. Sal was content with the way 8Cr13MoV performed for the Byrd product. Sal, being the stand up man he is, made certain the Byrd knives were all stamped with being 8Cr13MoV as not to deceive his customers. I applaud Sal and Spyderco for making known exactly what steel they are using in every knife that they sell.

Not all companies selling knives manufactured in China are as honest and upfront as Syderco has been about the steel they are using. Such companies take the "close enough" approach to using a similar US steel with ASTM standards, personally I consider such tactics deceptive and dishonest.

OppositeJay has some good points in why shouldn't the companies making Chinese knives label them with the actual steel being being used and not the BS "close enough" it is almost like a US or EU conterpart!?
 
:eek:Well I own two WE knives with a D2 blade. The WE knife 617 and the WE knife 709. Both are from the budget serie which sell for $100,- per knife. Available via reputable dealers.
I can tell you from my own experience that the D2 WE uses sure as hell is is real D2! It performs remarkably well, holds it edge very long and sharpens up to a razor blade.
For me there is no doubt.... WE knife uses real D2 and is spot-on with their heath treat!

It is always funny to read there are still people out there who think all Chinese blades are crap.
 
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Ad58 said:
:eek:Well I own two WE knives with a D2 blade. The WE knife 617 and the WE knife 709. Both are from the budget serie which sell for $100,- per knife. Available via reputable dealers.
I can tell you from my own experience that the D2 WE uses sure as hell is is real D2! It performs remarkably well, holds it edge very long and sharpens up to a razor blade.
For me there is no doubt.... WE knife uses real D2 and is spot-on with their heath treat!
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where's the proof?
 
Ive seen picture of the We factory on its website, they had a party for its workers,among other things,they have group pictures of the employees, you would think its a U.S. company by the way they operate.I have one of their knives in m390 I woudnt second guess it for a minute, they've been around for a couple of years if not longer,its not one of those rogue China companies that are using questionable materials.
 
I was curious about a new brand I was seeing coming from China. I won't mention the name, but it's not one of the more well known names already mentioned in this thread. I picked up three of their knives that appeared to be original designs and was initially impressed with the fit, finish and quality.

One of the knives was marked D2, one was marked AUS8 and the other S35VN. I sent them out for Niton Gun and LECO testing and the AUS8 and S35VN came back spot-on. Even the the titanium in the handles came back as real. The D2 knife didn't fare quite as well.

The D2 came back as a match for 8Cr13MoV. The confusing part of this all is that the formulation met what is considered "D2" in Asia but not D2 in America (and Europe I presume). The US standard for D2 steel is designated in ASTM A681, but that designation isn't necessarily considered the rule in all parts of the world. I think it's possible for a certain steel to be legitimately considered D2 in some places but not in others. I eventually dismissed the manufacturer, not because of the D2 steel issue but because it became apparent that one of the knives they advertised on Instragram looked like it was a clone.

As others have said, it helps to stick with reputable knife retailers, but even they aren't the final safety net. That won't always work. Lots of fellow members have had great luck with the materials and quality of Kizer, WE, Reate, Rike and perhaps even Ruike and Realsteel (among others). Let others Knife Knuts (like me :)) be the guinea pig and the rest of you stick with brands that are known and endorsed by the community.

Even if you get a lemon with one of the import brands mentioned, they seem to stand behind their products and will make them right.

To directly answer the OP's question; yes, I think you can get various "flavors" of D2, particularly from China were there are so many unknown producers. D2 seems to be particularly vulnerable to multiplicity being that there are so many accepted versions of this particular steel. I think most of the time it's due to confusion but some of the time it's a more heinous intent by cloners and counterfeiters. Besides, why would you ever trust someone who stole a design to then be honest about the components of said knife?
 
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