The Chinese Made “D2” Explosion

Hackenslash said:
One of the knives was marked D2, one was marked AUS8 and the other S35VN. I sent them out for Niton Gun and LECO testing and the AUS8 and S35VN came back spot-on. Even the the titanium in the handles came back as real. The D2 knife didn't fare quite as well.
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I suppose that makes sense. S35VN and AUS-8 are proprietary steels (Crucible and Aichi respectively) while D2 is just a formula, as you said. Try to sell something labeled as S35VN or AUS-8 in the US, when it really isn't, and you'll likely end up getting your inventory seized and destroyed for trademark infringement.

D2 doesn't have anyone to enforce its composition standards, so buyer beware.

The titanium coming back as real - well, I suppose it's hard to counterfeit titanium :)
 
tyyreaun said:
I suppose that makes sense. S35VN and AUS-8 are proprietary steels (Crucible and Aichi respectively) while D2 is just a formula, as you said. Try to sell something labeled as S35VN or AUS-8 in the US, when it really isn't, and you'll likely end up getting your inventory seized and destroyed for trademark infringement.

D2 doesn't have anyone to enforce its composition standards, so buyer beware.

The titanium coming back as real - well, I suppose it's hard to counterfeit titanium :)
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Yeah, kind of similar to someone calling a ground beef sandwich a hamburger vs. calling it a Big Mac :p
 
tyyreaun said:
I suppose that makes sense. S35VN and AUS-8 are proprietary steels (Crucible and Aichi respectively) while D2 is just a formula, as you said. Try to sell something labeled as S35VN or AUS-8 in the US, when it really isn't, and you'll likely end up getting your inventory seized and destroyed for trademark infringement.

D2 doesn't have anyone to enforce its composition standards, so buyer beware.

The titanium coming back as real - well, I suppose it's hard to counterfeit titanium :)
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From what I understand, there are different grades of titanium, don’t have a clue what the difference is, but it’s still titanium.
 
Ajack60 said:
From what I understand, there are different grades of titanium, don’t have a clue what the difference is, but it’s still titanium.
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Yes, there are many variations and only some manufacturer's state what kind they are using. For the way it is used in knives I'm not sure it really matters, 6al4v would kinda be a waste unless you want to geek out on the quality of it, that and lesser grade 3/2.5 tubing is used for bicycles. I believe the Massdrop Falcon is Grade 4 but I may be remembering incorrectly.
 
I will throw a comment out there. Based on my experience with Brous Blades, I’m not convinced that Chinese D2 is on par with other D2 blade steel. The Brous I bought had no markings other than the production number on the blade. I emailed Jason twice asking if his knives were indeed made in the US or China and still no response. However according to his website, he says Chinese companies are producing clones of his products and you can email pics to have them authenticate it for you. I still have no definitive proof of where Brous knives are produced.
Anyway, my experience with Brous D2 doesn’t mirror what I’ve read about other D2 blades. My knife came fairly dull and I sharpened it surprisingly easy with medium Sharpmaker rods, so it was obviously softer than expected.
 
Ad58 said:
Okay, today I got a confirmation from WE knives that their D2 steel contains 0.585% Vanadium.
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Just curious, did they give you a complete chemical composition of the steel or just the amount of Vanadium?
 
I just asked for the amount of Vanadium so they gave me just that. But they seem very cooperative, so I think they will give me the complete analysis too.
However, at this moment they have Chinese New year so they are out of the office some time.
But I will work on this, because I am curious myself too!
 
This may be off topic, but does Manly knives use European D2 or could theirs be Chinese D2? Made in Bulgaria but where do they source their materials?

May have answered my own question, sorry to waste time here, but on their site they say the D2 they use is made in Germany.
 
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cbach8tw said:
This may be off topic, but does Manly knives use European D2 or could theirs be Chinese D2? Made in Bulgaria but where do they source their materials?

May have answered my own question, sorry to waste time here, but on their site they say the D2 they use is made in Germany.
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We use a German made 1.2379 steel, which is equivalent to ANSI D2. All our D2 models are stamped with "1.2379" . That steel contains around 0.7 - 1% Vanadium.
We can supply a steel certificate with chemical analysis per request.

Our CPM154 and CPM S90V models are made with Crucible steel rolled by Niagara Specialty Metals.
 
Lyubomir Trayanov said:
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We use a German made 1.2379 steel, which is equivalent to ANSI D2. All our D2 models are stamped with "1.2379" . That steel contains around 0.7 - 1% Vanadium.
We can supply a steel certificate with chemical analysis per request.

Our CPM154 and CPM S90V models are made with Crucible steel rolled by Niagara Specialty Metals.
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Thanks! This is exactly what I would like to see from all manufacturers. Way to set the bar.
 
TheEdge01 said:
I will throw a comment out there. Based on my experience with Brous Blades, I’m not convinced that Chinese D2 is on par with other D2 blade steel. The Brous I bought had no markings other than the production number on the blade. I emailed Jason twice asking if his knives were indeed made in the US or China and still no response. However according to his website, he says Chinese companies are producing clones of his products and you can email pics to have them authenticate it for you. I still have no definitive proof of where Brous knives are produced.
Anyway, my experience with Brous D2 doesn’t mirror what I’ve read about other D2 blades. My knife came fairly dull and I sharpened it surprisingly easy with medium Sharpmaker rods, so it was obviously softer than expected.
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I think Brous admitted at SHOT that his budget lines are made in China. As in, not clones, but the ones he sells himself.

Edited to add, see here for confirmation: http://www.knifeblog.com/shot-show-2018-3/
 
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Lyubomir Trayanov said:
==========================================================
We use a German made 1.2379 steel, which is equivalent to ANSI D2. All our D2 models are stamped with "1.2379" . That steel contains around 0.7 - 1% Vanadium.
We can supply a steel certificate with chemical analysis per request.

Our CPM154 and CPM S90V models are made with Crucible steel rolled by Niagara Specialty Metals.
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Also, on an off-topic note, I would love to pick up a Peak in CPM154 or S90V. I am in the USA, and can’t find anything but the D2 Model. Are the others available in the USA yet? Thanks!
 
TheEdge01 said:
I will throw a comment out there. Based on my experience with Brous Blades, I’m not convinced that Chinese D2 is on par with other D2 blade steel. The Brous I bought had no markings other than the production number on the blade. I emailed Jason twice asking if his knives were indeed made in the US or China and still no response. However according to his website, he says Chinese companies are producing clones of his products and you can email pics to have them authenticate it for you. I still have no definitive proof of where Brous knives are produced.
Anyway, my experience with Brous D2 doesn’t mirror what I’ve read about other D2 blades. My knife came fairly dull and I sharpened it surprisingly easy with medium Sharpmaker rods, so it was obviously softer than expected.
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This is the exact reason I made this thread. It would be nice if we knew what alloys are actually going into the knives we buy. When you get s35vn, you can be sure that’s what you have if the source is legit. But with steels like D2 that are standard formulations, with a wide variance in ingredients, D2 from one source ≠ D2 from another source. This doesn’t even get into heat treat and how much that can change performance. I guess I just didn’t want to see people buying these new D2 budget knives and being dissapointed when the edge retention doesn’t live up to expectations.
 
OppositeJay said:
Also, on an off-topic note, I would love to pick up a Peak in CPM154 or S90V. I am in the USA, and can’t find anything but the D2 Model. Are the others available in the USA yet? Thanks!
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They are available, Peak is sold out, Peak 2 is in stock. Sent you a PM.
 
OppositeJay said:
This is the exact reason I made this thread. It would be nice if we knew what alloys are actually going into the knives we buy. When you get s35vn, you can be sure that’s what you have if the source is legit. But with steels like D2 that are standard formulations, with a wide variance in ingredients, D2 from one source ≠ D2 from another source. This doesn’t even get into heat treat and how much that can change performance. I guess I just didn’t want to see people buying these new D2 budget knives and being dissapointed when the edge retention doesn’t live up to expectations.
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I have tried experimenting in the past with other brands. As of lately I have been leaning more towards tried and true brands such as Spyderco, Benchmade, or Zero Tolerance with my more expensive purchases.
 
I was chatting with the head of a newer Chinese knife company and they are quite adamant about using real materials in their knives. According to him real D2 is imported and is much costlier than Chinese made steels and therefore the odds of getting real D2 in a $20 knife are virtually nil. He is just as opposed to the dishonesty exhibited by many Chinese knife makers as we are and referred to DHGate as a "refuge for counterfeiters" or something like that. He guarantees that the steels used in his company's knives are genuine and welcomes testing. It boils down to honesty. Reputable companies are honest and will label a steel according to what it really is. Dishonest companies might use a Chinese analog that performs similarly or worse yet use a far cheaper and inferior steel and mislabel it to generate sales or jack up the price. There are honest people in the US and China and there are dishonest people in the US and China. This is just something one person in the industry told me so take it for what it is. I think the kind of testing Cedric and Ada does is very helpful in giving us an idea of how various steels compare to each other under somewhat consistent testing.
 
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