The Choil/Ricasso thing

[Lorien]

so, the choil is the area between the edge and the ricasso? Sounds right to me.

 

[Kevin Jones]

so, the choil is the area between the edge and the ricasso? Sounds right to me.

That's the way I see it for most knives anyway. I have seen hunting knives with a 1/2 moon recess cut from the blade just slightly forward of the ricasso or guard/bolster (in some cases) and that refereed to as a choil. I would however call that a finger groove (or unsightly condition ) rather than a choil.

I have a question?
Even though the integral below has a bolster rather than a riscasso isn't the rounded dropped edge still a choil? I would say so.

 

[brownshoe]

Per Joe Talmadge at the KnifeArt Encyclopedia

The choil is an unsharpened section of the blade. If a guard is present, the choil will be in front of the guard on the blade itself. The choil is often used as a way to choke up on the blade for close-in work. The index finger is placed in the choil, and this close proximity to the edge allows for greater control. In addition, the choil is just in front of where the blade itself becomes part of the handle, an area often prone to breakage due to the blade-handle juncture. The choil leaves this area at full thickness and thus stronger.

 

[betzner]

FINAL EDIT: Got it.

 

[2knife]

Per Joe Talmadge at the KnifeArt Encyclopedia

The choil is an unsharpened section of the blade. If a guard is present, the choil will be in front of the guard on the blade itself. The choil is often used as a way to choke up on the blade for close-in work. The index finger is placed in the choil, and this close proximity to the edge allows for greater control. In addition, the choil is just in front of where the blade itself becomes part of the handle, an area often prone to breakage due to the blade-handle juncture. The choil leaves this area at full thickness and thus stronger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricasso

The former "choil" definition by Joe Talmadge doesn't mention ricasso , which makes me wonder if these terms have been used interchangeably in the past?
David

 

[joeshredd]

Choil and ricasso... After reading threads here over the years and going back over several old sword books, I have the understanding that the ricasso refers to the area between the guard/handle and beginning of the actual blade, or area past the plunge line. The choil refers to just the area on the lower portion of the blade between the handle/guard and the rearmost portion of the cutting edge, or heel (?), or on a blade with no drop, there may be a small cutout, more often seen on folder blades. Kevin's pic of the Sendero is probably the best illustration of this, but I would extend the region circled as the choil all the way back to the guard.
What I'm not clear on would be if the blade edge lines up with the ricasso, would the lower area between the guard/handle and the beginning of the edge still be called a choil? DDD's pic of the Fuegan bowie is what I think of with regards to this.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

Lay the knife on its spine, cutting edge up.
What you see, between the rear end of the cutting edge, and the guard/handle, is the choil.
Whether it be concave, flat, in line with the cutting edge, or what have you.
Flop it over on its side, and the portion above that, on the same plane as the blade side, is the ricasso.
Of course, that's on knives that have these components.
If they don't have these components, call them something else.

 

[canineforge]

Lay the knife on its spine, cutting edge up.
What you see, between the rear end of the cutting edge, and the guard/handle, is the choil.
Whether it be concave, flat, in line with the cutting edge, or what have you.

That helps define the choil on this Mark Holson bowie:

Thanks for your definition, Karl. :thumbup:

- Joe

 

[Ed Fowler]

Good defination Karl, we have all seen the recessed ricasso, in line ricasso and the other day I saw a raised ricasso.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Karl is spot on.

Joe, that's a fine lookin bit of work Mark did on that piece. Hope to see more from him one day.

 

[Bill Burke]

there is a very old definition that says choil was a word that ment to file. and sence it was very hard to gring the edge right up to the ricasso the final bit had to be filed or choiled so the choil was the filed section of blade just in front of the ricasso. later later on choil started to be known as a filed area between the edge and the ricasso most common on folding knives where a notch has been filed in to Delineate the edge from the tang. the manuscript is here in the last paragraph of page 197 and the first paragraph of 198. http://books.google.com/books?id=XG...AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=definition of choil&f=false.

from the spyderco web site:
A choil is a round cut out seperating the cutting edge from the ricasso. It is also used to describe a cut out, molded or formed area where the handle and blade meet which positions/guards the index finger while gripping the opened knife.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Bill: That definition puts it right where the design of many artifacts of man originate. It was created to simplify manufacture, the original reason for it was lost through time and ever since man has tried to find a use for it.

 

[mohd]

Does the choil got anything to do with the guard? IIANM traditionally a blade without a guard has a choil, while a blade with a guard doesn't has a choil.

Now about the ricasso, IMHO it is very closely related to the plunge. Can we say that a blade which doesn't has a plunge means it doesn't has a ricasso?

My point of reference is a golok. A golok normaly doesn't has a guard but it has a choil. And a golok doesn't has a plunge so it doesn't has a ricasso!

Just my 2 cents, pals

mohd.

 

[resinguy]

I am agnostic on the subject, but just had to say, that Roberts is gorgeous.

Knife by Matt Roberts

 

[joeshredd]

Lay the knife on its spine, cutting edge up.
What you see, between the rear end of the cutting edge, and the guard/handle, is the choil.

Thanks Karl! much clearer than what I was trying to say... But I was drinking Ta-Kill-Ya watching the mass start of the biathalon, so I wasn't too clearly focused!!

And Bill, I had not heard the term used to refer to the making process... Gives a much more historical slant to the whole thing!

Now.. for the Ricasso... In the latest edition of Tactical Knives, in describing the SOG Creed bowie, the author refers to the whole flat portion of the blade above the angle leading into the edge, and not just the portion in front of the handle/guard, as the ricasso... I had not heard this before, but I also don't know what else to call it...

Is there a term for it?

Thanks! Like several other threads on knife/blade terminology, I always love these as I learn something every time! :thumbup: