The Composition of Infi and What it Means

[shinyedges]

I don't hold grudges and I don't typically get mad at the forums, though occasionally annoyed. I think we're good.

Rock on

 

[shinyedges]

Larrin, I have a question.

If slight element changes in carbon steels are enough to designate the changed alloy uniquely, what makes it ok to call infi and A8 mod the same as you did in your last thread?

Or is it just the same family now?

Should all steels that are similar in composition just be called one thing rather than have different names like 1050, 1060, 1080?

I would think the nuances between them are something a metallurgist would be adamant about expressing because they AREN'T the same despite being closely related.

More than anything, I'm confused why a metallurgist would "lump" steels into categories vaguely rather than identify them specifically. I guess because there is no closer relative to infi than A8 mod you just lumped them as the same?


Also, clarifying that this thread is about a steel test that is a decade old would be a good thing so people don't assume it's currently accurate, no?

 

[shinyedges]

Honestly I'm genuinely curious why so many closely related steels exist rather than just lump them all into one name and call it that..

 

[shinyedges]

Let's take these 2 steels for example 1080 and 1050:



Look how closely related they are..



Looking at their composition, if we lumped them as the "same" steel like you did infi and A8 mod, that would be wrong no?

They aren't the same steel. One is 1080 and the other is 1050. Calling them the same isn't true..is it? They have their own names for a reason, I wish I knew what that reason was.

 

[stonproject]

 

[pinnah]

I'll be curious what Larrin has to say but will offer this...

Categorizations and classifications are different. Computers generally work using crisp, cleanly delineated classifications that have clear inclusion/exclusion rules, produce hierarchical classification structures and that have no-overlapping categories at any level. Think mathematical set theory, the foundation of Turing machines. Human cognition and speech generally work using fuzzy overlapping categories that are driven by utility and need. They don't have clear inclusion/exclusion rules, often don't produce hierarchies and typically have overlapping categories.

Translating this to this discussion, I'm going to guess that it's practical to distinguish between 1050 and 1080 but not practical to distinguish between fluctuations among A8 Mod variations.

This is a very tough problem for those of us who work in computing in scientific disciplines. Some good reading here:
https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/1686/Jacob515540.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

Great books on the subject include "Classification and its Consequences" by Bowker and Starr and "The Big Book of Concepts" by Murphy. The former is more about sociological construction of classification systems and the latter more about cognitive psychology of categories.

 

[shinyedges]

Keep rolling them maybe they'll roll somewhere

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I don't hold grudges and I don't typically get mad at the forums, though occasionally annoyed. I think we're good.

You have a ton of knowledge and I'll read your articles wherever you may go whether here on Blade Forums, Spyderco Forums or through your website. If I had the income right now, I'd be sponsoring you. Your continuous effort and willingness to write abt knife steels are what make the forums worth reading.

 

[danbot]

Its looking to me that Infi is just plain old marketing genius.
Take a tough as nails steel, tweak the recipe a little, have a manufacturer produce it for you exclusively and refuse to disclose the exact composition to anyone, develop a great HT and get this new mystery steel with a cool sounding name into peoples hands, daring them to try to break it, warranty abuse... and laugh all the way to the bank!

 

[Twindog]

Does the increase in chromium in A8(mod) add to stain resistance, as well as wear resistance?

Also, I could loan you a bare-steel Infi knife for testing, depending on how bad the burn damage would be.

 

[shinyedges]

Its looking to me that Infi is just plain old marketing genius.
Take a tough as nails steel, tweak the recipe a little, have a manufacturer produce it for you exclusively and refuse to disclose the exact composition to anyone, develop a great HT and get this new mystery steel with a cool sounding name into peoples hands, daring them to try to break it, warranty abuse... and laugh all the way to the bank!

No freaking doubt, Jerry is a master of marketing.

 

[Larrin]

Sorry guys, that answer is too long to type in my phone on a Friday night. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[shinyedges]

Sorry guys, that answer is too long to type in my phone on a Friday night. Maybe tomorrow.

What could possibly be more important than nerding out about steel on the internet

I'm totally kidding man have a good night.

 

[jbmonkey]

a topic that started my first post here long ago. infi has always fascinated me.

enjoyed what I've read so far. looking forward to more discussion on the topic.

 

[Ajack60]

Larrin , I know you’re a metallurgist and have compassion for your profession. Your articles have brought meaning to the knives I own as well as given me even more information to share when someone asks about why I carry such expensive knives.
I would think that the why there’s so many grades/classification of steels belongs to the manufacturers. I would also think that it’s proprietary information that’s not disclosed to the public for the most part. I would guess for the most part that specialized steel is developed for a specific customer/need and since a company owns the formula, they have the right to offer it to the public.
My question is, do these steel companies fall under the same scrutiny that so many other companies have to comply with in listing the components while keeping their proprietorship?

 

[ShannonSteelLabs]

People have called it A8 mod for years, whether or not it's still the same recipe as those old tests indicates who knows.


So, is the CURRENT knives A8 mod? How old are those tests?

Basically this is an announcement about Infi's composition tests from 10+ years ago. Speaking to it's current composition is nothing more than guessing. Well done.

Send it To Peters.
They have the scanning tool to check the chemical makeup.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I sold my last Busse yesterday. Sometime many months ago, I fell out of love with INFI. My favorite user steel is Vanadis 4 Extra at 61RC with deep cryo by Peter's.

I still have four small Busse's but I am carrying the Bradford G3 in Vanadis 4E. It is a great steel, and the G3 stowed in a cross-draw factory leather sheath is a great carry method...unobtrusive, quick to deploy, a secure grip.

Larrin, nice work as usual....a bit over my head, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[thebrain]

INFI seems to be much more rust prone than even regular AUS8 and mod has more cr correct? Could heat treat be enough to cause this ?

 

[Revolverrodger]

Regardless of all this INFI works out great in big choppers.
I buy Busse knives not necessarily for the steel but for designs that I like.

 

[AntDog]

Ok, so who can I buy a knife from made in A8-Mod with a similar heat treatment that Busse performs on their blades?

I want to test this out the non-egghead way...