The Damasteel Got Here !!!!

I'm not very confident with the air quench. I'd like to see Roger find a quick way to get the steel out of the foil and oil quench.
 
Okay. How does this sound: There is no way I have at hand to get the steel out of the packet quick enough. Instead, for the purpose of comparison, I can do a piece with no atmosphere control and grind the decarb after snap temper or at a point you (Mete) suggest would be best to grind the decarb.. I suspect a more reliable Rockwell would be taken with no decarb.. We can tackle the foil problem after we get a result.

Please advise.

EDIT: Wait a minute. I'll make a narrow foil packet open on one end. I'll place the steel sample in along with a small piece of brown paper bag. When time to quench I'll release the steel into the pre-heated oil (~140 F.). Indian George posted a recent thread about HT'ing in a pipe. That got me thinking of this. We'll see if it cuts down much on decarborization at SS temperatures - and we'll still get a quick tranfer from oven to oil.

RL
 
Roger - I seem to remember reading some where or maybe it was my Dad a master machinist in the aerospace industry - that putting a couple of match stick sized pieces of wood inside the foil pack would cut the decarp to nothing - since you're experimenting it may be worth a try?
 
Chuck, thanks for that and I have read here that some do. I have been practicing the same with my foil wrapped blades, but instead have used a small piece (no more than 1 sq. inch) of brown paper bag. It does work so long as there is not enough of this fuel to compromise the packet upon ignition.

Some others here have exclaimed that they have no decarb without the combustable included. Except for small test pieces (such as these), I have never tried it yet without.

RL
 
Roger
Chucks on the right track..
IG did that while I was at the last Hammer-in too
you'll have to use wood or what have you, to
supply enough fuel burning time for the time in the Oven.
Ig used 2 blocks of wood I believe. the paper in a sealed
pouch just burns out the Oxygen in the sealed pack,
well you get the picture. :)

on the alum plates you could adjustable hinge it
adjust it before you threat it, of course your more worried about
the taper other than the ricasso and the tang. would that solve your problem?:confused:

edited to add you could spring load it at one end
and put the point right at the end of the plates.
I'm thinking of a lot of ways you could do it...

edited to add again..

now I'm thinking you could kill two birds with one stone.
take the Oxygen out of the oven,,
I was thinking argon BUT this is being done now..
it's cold going in, slowing recovery time, and the cost is a concern.....
I'm going to try propane ( just enough to burn out the Oxygen),,
introduce it into the ele oven in flame.
Danger is if it goes out and builds up Boom !!..so it will need a constant ignition
even thought the oven will be red hot..
another problem I'm told of is, carbon dioxide is bad for the
elements in the ele oven just what I've been told ..
 
Dan, I do use combustables in my foil packets, except for these small test pieces. On the test piece I am doing now I am using a combustable because the packet is open ended. I tried not to make the combustable too large in volume because I am afraid of creating too much of a low pressure area within the packet, causing an in-rush of fresh oxygen. We'll just have to see. This particular crazy idea is all new to me but worth a try.

Dan, you and I have the same type oven. A propane flame would soon be dead because there will not be enough oxygen incomming through the closed door to support it. BOOM. We could venturi the oxygen into the nozzle but I think I'll pass on that one.:)

RL
 
I'm thinking you're right Roger
just as soon as I opened the door BOOM!!if not before.
but if I supply just enough to support the flame with a
constant ignition:confused: maybe? nawww
I may just go with the salt bath for the most of the steels
and work on a true atmospheric generator oven
 
When you find that deal see if its got a sister:) :) :) . I'd sure like to be able to salt bath in my horizontal electric oven (at a price a poor boy can swing).:confused:

Hey, I've got #7A in HT now. This one I am excited about. I do not look for hardness increase though and feel good about hitting 60.5 on the #7 snap before cryo. I was hoping against hope for 61.

RL
 
Just got #7A in snap temper. It slipped right out of the foil packet slick as bacon greese on a freshly caught trout. I would guess no more than 2 sec. from oven to oil and maybe 1 1/2. I am not totally pleased with my oil temp. though. I thought it a little high at about 147 F. before dropping the steel into it. I tried to regulate it to 140 F. but set it to high just before soak time was over and was a little too early in doing that.

I did not try to study whether the steel was deeply decarborized but a quick glance while putting into snap temper looked like it is pitted quite a bit. Until I get it out of snap temper it looks like a failure as far as trying to minimimize decarorization.

RL

EDIT: Snap tempering has finished and the piece is now in cryo. Trying to minimize decarb enough by leaving one end of the packet open was a total failure. Wether it lessoned decarb or not it is too deep to be worth doing with a real blade.

The test piece after snap temper Rockwell tested the same as the al plate quench had, 59 HRc. I think I can match this with rapid air quench. We will follow this one through to see what the grain looks like and then I would like to do the air quench. I have faith in the air quench (if I can get good grain with it).

All previous test pieces have had zero noticible decarorization until this one. Only a little discolorization, more on some but none were scaled or pitted - even in the least.

RL
 
Rodger, I'm way over my head here but for the test you may want to coat the piece with Borax to keep the Decarb off. I tried that several times playing with SS and it seemed to work well. It may be a quick fix to get it in the oil and keep the crap off it. BTW, I love this thread, keep it coming!
 
Peter, I think it was L6 or maybe it was you about a year and a half ago that was playning around with that here. I don't remember if any conclusions were reached. Anyhow, not being a forger I have never used borax. How difficult is it to remove after HT ??

...oh, and thanks.

RL
 
Mete, HELLLLLP. I just got an unexpected result. After snap temper this oil quenched piece was 59 HRc, after 12 1/2 hours deep cryo it was 62.5 - 63. NOW !!, after 400 F. / 2 hr temper it is still 63. It should have gone down a little (?).

Its in final temper now for 2 hours.

What's going on here Mete?

RL
 
I don't remember if L6 was doing it also but I tried it several times. It worked better than not having any protection but was not as clean as an envelope.
It's not that hard to remove!
 
20 Mule Team ? The stuff the Great Ronald Reagan used to advertise??
That stainless pits deep with those long soak times. Its worth a try. What do I mix it with to paint it on ? Do I have to grind it off the steel ?

RL
 
There are two things that happen in HT without protection - decarburization and scaling ( oxidation) are you confusing the two ? Borax should come off by soaking in hot water......Hardness - do the final temper and fracture , don't get nervous.
 
Actually I got no scaling. I did get pitting. Okay, I just took another asperin .:cool:. I'll break it tonight and post.
 
Rodger, you can either heat the steel a little and sprinkle the Borax on or sprinkle the Borax on and heat the whole mess a little or heat the borax in a pan and dip the steel in it.
I suggest the pan method for what you are doing!
 
Peter, I guess I should give it a go before long. Again, do I buy this stuff locally ?

RL
 
Mete, I think we may have nailed the sum beach. The warm oil kept the steel from falling too low in temp. before snap temper. While the aluminum is super fast it was too fast for me to time when to take out of plate quench. That's my idea about it anyhow. See the picture and specs and let me know what you think.
-----------------------

Heat Treat Sample #7A:

This one is different than #7 in that a warm oil quench was used instead of aluminum plate quench and THE FOIL PACKET was open at one end so as to drop the steel into quench. This did not prevent pitting though.
-----------------------
(0.75 X 1.5 X 0.138 inch RWL-34, foil wrapped and placed in cool oven)

Ramp to equalize

1400 F. / soak 7 minutes

Ramp to target

1950 F. / soak 25 minutes

Quench in pre-heated 147 F. vegetable oil

Snap temper immediately: 350 F. / 1 hour

Deep cryo: 12 1/2 hours

Temper after still air warming to room temp.: 400 F. / 2 hours

Temper: 400 F. / 2 hours
------------------------
Rockwell after snap temper before cryo: 59 HRc
Rockwell after deep cryo: 62.5 HRc
Rockwell after first temper: 62.5 - 63 HRc
Rockwell after final temper: 62.5 - 63 HRc
------------------------

Fracture Picture: http://riflestocks.tripod.com/steelgrain7a.html

RL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top