The Dark Side...

Don Hanson III said:
Kevin, maybe it's the simplicity but it's probably the perceived price the is most attractive.

I've actually thought a lot about making some very simple knives but just don't have the time :)
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Yep, it's probbly the price that makes them more attractive than anything else.

But then why not just post "a nice knife for the price" or something similar, rather than beautiful, great, cool, I love it, so on, so on? ;)
 
Pretty cool Burt it goes to show that someone with your talent can do a rather simple knife but it still has a certain look about it that is cool looking in a simplistic form.

I do not mind hollow ground knives in this size bracket and though if I where to order one I would ask for some small handle scales but on this size knife I agree you do not need them.

This is the kinda knife I could get my hunting buddies and other guys cops and the like to buy. The price and the no mare finish :D would be right up there allie. Mine 2

Nice shaped blade. Great entry level custom user from one of the best IMHO
 
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Kevin Jones said:
I'm more addressing "the style knife" rather than who made it or what it cost.

I saw a similar knife posted on another forum the other day by a maker I was not familiar with (probably a newer maker) and it received the same "beautiful", "cool", "love it's".

My question is more, what's so beautiful and cool about it? Or simply, what specifically do you like about this style knife?

Some collectors are more interested in knife aesthetics and others the ergonomics and some a combination of both, where does this style knife fit in?

I realize established makers are starting to make these knives because they are quick and easy to make so they are profitable.

Not trying to be difficult here, just curious and think these are interesting questions.
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I think it has a lot to do with the same design semantic that brought Craftsman style furniture out of the Victorian era.

after seeing nothing but highly embellished, engraved, damascus, ivory, etc its nice sometimes to see an austere aesthetic shine through with nothing but super clean lines and flow


that's one of the reasons I hold Don H III in such high regard. when's the last time he did a knife up with tons of embellishment????

a simple piece of stag and a little bit of damascus in the guard and he's got a winner of a knife.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Yep, it's probbly the price that makes them more attractive than anything else.

But then why not just post "a nice knife for the price" or something similar, rather than beautiful, great, cool, I love it, so on, so on? ;)
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I dunno, you at least have to allow for the possibility that some people find it beautiful, great, cool and actually love it, don't you? You clearly don't - and that's fine - but others may see it differently. Price is a key element, no doubt, but it is by far not the only one.

No-one can explain "why" something is beautiful - that lies in the eye of the beholder. One guy can look at the Venus de Milo and weep from the sheer beauty of it. Another can dismiss it as a busted-up chick with bad skin who 'aint got no arms. Guy one will have no chance of explaining to guy two "why" the statue is beautiful.

Roger
 
stephanfowler said:
I think it has a lot to do with the same design semantic that brought Craftsman style furniture out of the Victorian era.

after seeing nothing but highly embellished, engraved, damascus, ivory, etc its nice sometimes to see an austere aesthetic shine through with nothing but super clean lines and flow


that's one of the reasons I hold Don H III in such high regard. when's the last time he did a knife up with tons of embellishment????

a simple piece of stag and a little bit of damascus in the guard and he's got a winner of a knife.
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Good points. :thumbup:
 
Kevin et. al.,

I'm certainly not going into the "handle-less" knife business, but there are several things that appeal to me about these kinds of knives.

1. They are fast. Maybe I have ADD, and maybe I just like a change of pace, but after working on things like that dagger I had in San Antonio and the accompanying box, I kinda like something I can get into and get out of in a hurry. It's like creative instant gratification.

2. Because they are fast, they are less expensive and so sure, lots of people can afford one, and they'll feel less intimidated by the use of one they haven't dropped $1K+ on.

3. It's a challenge. Lets face it, there are a lot of knife buyers who get distracted by the "bling" on a knife and can't see the forest for the trees. Ugly, clunky, horrible knives with beautiful damascus or engraving or whatever are bought by folks who lack the experience to see they are just getting a over-decorated pig. When you eliminate all those extra elements, there's nothing to see but the design. There is nothing to distract from the bare simplicity of one piece of steel, some grind lines and a piece of string. The challenge is actually harder in a way, to design and make a knife with a pleasing design in the absence of decoration. I don't know that I've done that, but that is the challenge.
 
I see what you mean, Burt. I kind of get tired of working on the same knife for a week or two, or three. Back in the old days, I used you finish three or four knives a day :D
 
Burt Foster said:
Kevin et. al.,

I'm certainly not going into the "handle-less" knife business, but there are several things that appeal to me about these kinds of knives.

1. They are fast. Maybe I have ADD, and maybe I just like a change of pace, but after working on things like that dagger I had in San Antonio and the accompanying box, I kinda like something I can get into and get out of in a hurry. It's like creative instant gratification.

2. Because they are fast, they are less expensive and so sure, lots of people can afford one, and they'll feel less intimidated by the use of one they haven't dropped $1K+ on.

3. It's a challenge. Lets face it, there are a lot of knife buyers who get distracted by the "bling" on a knife and can't see the forest for the trees. Ugly, clunky, horrible knives with beautiful damascus or engraving or whatever are bought by folks who lack the experience to see they are just getting a over-decorated pig. When you eliminate all those extra elements, there's nothing to see but the design. There is nothing to distract from the bare simplicity of one piece of steel, some grind lines and a piece of string. The challenge is actually harder in a way, to design and make a knife with a pleasing design in the absence of decoration. I don't know that I've done that, but that is the challenge.
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This post should be a sticky. Everyone ordering a highly embellished knife should ponder these words.
 
Burt Foster said:
,

3. It's a challenge. Lets face it, there are a lot of knife buyers who get distracted by the "bling" on a knife and can't see the forest for the trees. Ugly, clunky, horrible knives with beautiful damascus or engraving or whatever are bought by folks who lack the experience to see they are just getting a over-decorated pig. When you eliminate all those extra elements, there's nothing to see but the design. There is nothing to distract from the bare simplicity of one piece of steel, some grind lines and a piece of string. The challenge is actually harder in a way, to design and make a knife with a pleasing design in the absence of decoration. I don't know that I've done that, but that is the challenge.
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Man you said it you can take a boat oar and embelish the hell out of it and ya just have a gaudy boat oar.

Balance design and flow even if ya spray paint it black or rough finish it can still make a fine knife that is beautiful even with your eyes closed

Now don't get me wrong embelished knives can be great if the knife is great
 
RogerP said:
I dunno, you at least have to allow for the possibility that some people find it beautiful, great, cool and actually love it, don't you?
I certainly do, but curious as to why.
We have all heard the same words used to describe Burt's most complex knives. So to some is the above knife equally pleasing as his most complex pieces? As stated, not trying to be contrary here, it's just that the grand responses to such a simplistic knife surprised me a bit and interest me.

You clearly don't - and that's fine - but others may see it differently. Price is a key element, no doubt, but it is by far not the only one.
I don't really dislike the knife, I just see it as a simplistic, inexpensive version of a Burt Foster knife. Nothing more, nothing less. Again, I assume inexpensive as I don't know Burt's price. On the other hand personally, I don't find it either aesthetically or ergonomically pleasing.
I can't imagine that it could be very comfortable doing any realwork task for any length of time.

No-one can explain "why" something is beautiful - that lies in the eye of the beholder. One guy can look at the Venus de Milo and weep from the sheer beauty of it. Another can dismiss it as a busted-up chick with bad skin who 'aint got no arms. Guy one will have no chance of explaining to guy two "why" the statue is beautiful.
I can certainly explain why I consider something beautiful, great, cool or why I like or dislike something. So I was just asking others too. Actually, I do think it has a cool :cool: factor.

Roger
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Good discussion IMO.
 
Burt Foster said:
Kevin et. al.,

I'm certainly not going into the "handle-less" knife business, but there are several things that appeal to me about these kinds of knives.

1. They are fast. Maybe I have ADD, and maybe I just like a change of pace, but after working on things like that dagger I had in San Antonio and the accompanying box, I kinda like something I can get into and get out of in a hurry. It's like creative instant gratification.

2. Because they are fast, they are less expensive and so sure, lots of people can afford one, and they'll feel less intimidated by the use of one they haven't dropped $1K+ on.

3. It's a challenge. Lets face it, there are a lot of knife buyers who get distracted by the "bling" on a knife and can't see the forest for the trees. Ugly, clunky, horrible knives with beautiful damascus or engraving or whatever are bought by folks who lack the experience to see they are just getting a over-decorated pig. When you eliminate all those extra elements, there's nothing to see but the design. There is nothing to distract from the bare simplicity of one piece of steel, some grind lines and a piece of string. The challenge is actually harder in a way, to design and make a knife with a pleasing design in the absence of decoration. I don't know that I've done that, but that is the challenge.
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I agree and well said Burt.
In regard to your point #3, the hardest thing in designing a higher end embellished knife is realizing it's about the "basics" first, then knowing where to stop with the embellishments. Embellishments can't make a great knife, only add or subtract from it.
Custom motorcycles the same thing. I don't know how many I have seen ruined because the designer forgot it's a motorcycle "first" and didn't know when enough is enough in regard to the embellishments.
 
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HERATIC! You beat me to the post Burt Foster HERATIC! now im sending you mine to photo and post so I can be a heratic with you!
 
heres my worthless 2 cents. but i like the lines of the knife.very attractive to my eye.i also like the grind of the blade and the contrast of the forged handle.some of you guys may consider this a hobo chic knife that is cheap but i have a feeling it would still be out of my price range.any way i like it alot and it will be a nice addition to any collection.clint.
 
I think it is COOL simply because it IS made to be used.

Kevin, I think what you don't understand about it is that it is NOT a collector piece.

Peter
 
clink619 said:
heres my worthless 2 cents. but i like the lines of the knife.very attractive to my eye.i also like the grind of the blade and the contrast of the forged handle.some of you guys may consider this a hobo chic knife that is cheap but i have a feeling it would still be out of my price range.any way i like it alot and it will be a nice addition to any collection.clint.
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Hi clink,

I like the look of it too, and even though I have purchased more expensive knives from Burt, this is a knife I would WANT to buy - not merely something I would be settling for.

I think the hobo comment was tongue-in-cheek, and while it is no doubt an inexpensive piece in the context of Burt's knives, I certainly don't view it as "cheap" in any other respect.

I also agree that while it would make a very nice user, it would indeed make a great addition to a collection. I think that sometimes we (and I include myself here) can lose perspective on knife collecting. A collection of inexpensive, but well-designed and made custom knives is no less valid than one of high end bowies, daggers or folders.

Roger
 
Kevin Jones said:
I can certainly explain why I consider something beautiful, great, cool or why I like or dislike something. So I was just asking others too. Actually, I do think it has a cool factor.
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Fair enough - you can articulate why you think something is beautiful - but you can't explain to someone who doesn't see it as beautiful "why" they should. I mean, we're looking at the same picture. If the lines, proportions and finish of the piece don't strike you as beautiful, someone saying that they see the lines, proportions, grinds, contrasting finish etc. as beautiful isn't going to suddenly enlighten you or change your viewpoint, is it? Beauty is a subjective conclusion that doesn't break down into an equation of universal application.

Roger
 
Gosh, I'm just stirrin' up controversy every where I go! :D:D And thanks for the compliments on the knife.

For those of you who wanted more information on price and availability, and since I can't seem to remember how to use the private / instant message thing here on BF,:confused: if you want me to let you know when I have some of these available, send me an old-fashioned email at burt@burtfoster.com.

Thanks!
 
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