"The" discussion on clones, homages, and IP theft.

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Aldebaran

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It happens all the time. Someone shows or discusses a knife that has questionable heritage and the thread devolves in a mud slinging match and destroys the original thread. It is called thread crapping. IMHO, it sometimes makes these forums a bit of a time waster.

My suggestion is that we use this thread to state our opinion on the subject of clones, homages, IP theft, and any other moral or political stance one might take on a manufacturer or a knife model that might offend your sensibilities Once you have stated your opinion, then all you need to do is refer to your post in this thread and not make a huge speech or thread crap and not destroy what might otherwise be a useful discussion.

Your morality is not necessarily the same as mine or of the majority of the forum. Even if it is of the majority of the forum it is not everybody's. Thread crapping just pisses people off and shuts down the mind of someone you are trying to influence. It can be, and is usually, counterproductive.

So I suggest that we try to not preach morals to others.

I suggest that if someone posts about a manufacturer or knife that is deemed evil by the masses here that it gets stated once with reference to this thread. Dog piling on a person or a post just makes a mess and convinces no one.

I suggest that it would be more productive and less wasteful of everyone's time to not go on a "holier than thou" sermon and just demonstrate your distaste for the knife or company in question by referring to this thread or your post in this thread.

I suggest that if someone has already objected to the company/knife, then we all don't dog pile on the poster and stop being so high and mighty.

I suggest we show tolerance towards each other and try to educate rather than beat the hell out of each other. Conversation is interesting. Preaching is boring.

Lastly, I suggest that people stop trying to try and speak for the whole forum. Not even a moderator speaks for the whole forum. They differ in their approach to controlling things here and it can be rather arbitrary sometimes. It is better to assume incompetence than assume malice. Be kind.
 
Think he just means lets b civil if someone simply has a question about one and not necessarily condoning them.
 
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Aldebaran said:
It happens all the time. Someone shows or discusses a knife that has questionable heritage and the thread devolves in a mud slinging match and destroys the original thread. It is called thread crapping. IMHO, it sometimes makes these forums a bit of a time waster.

My suggestion is that we use this thread to state our opinion on the subject of clones, homages, IP theft, and any other moral or political stance one might take on a manufacturer or a knife model that might offend your sensibilities Once you have stated your opinion, then all you need to do is refer to your post in this thread and not make a huge speech or thread crap and not destroy what might otherwise be a useful discussion.

Your morality is not necessarily the same as mine or of the majority of the forum. Even if it is of the majority of the forum it is not everybody's. Thread crapping just pisses people off and shuts down the mind of someone you are trying to influence. It can be, and is usually, counterproductive.

So I suggest that we try to not preach morals to others.

I suggest that if someone posts about a manufacturer or knife that is deemed evil by the masses here that it gets stated once with reference to this thread. Dog piling on a person or a post just makes a mess and convinces no one.

I suggest that it would be more productive and less wasteful of everyone's time to not go on a "holier than thou" sermon and just demonstrate your distaste for the knife or company in question by referring to this thread or your post in this thread.

I suggest that if someone has already objected to the company/knife, then we all don't dog pile on the poster and stop being so high and mighty.

I suggest we show tolerance towards each other and try to educate rather than beat the hell out of each other. Conversation is interesting. Preaching is boring.

Lastly, I suggest that people stop trying to try and speak for the whole forum. Not even a moderator speaks for the whole forum. They differ in their approach to controlling things here and it can be rather arbitrary sometimes. It is better to assume incompetence than assume malice. Be kind.
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I notice you said nothing on the subject you wish others to speak on.
 
Here is my contribution to this idea.

I do not believe that people should steal designs or technical advances from others to the detriment of the original designer. Yes there are copyrights and patents but not everyone can afford to register these things nor can everyone afford to defend them. This does not mean they don't have the right to not have someone else take their IP and profit from it.

I do not buy any product that I feel has infringed on the IP rights of another. I might buy something from a company or person that is their original design but has copied other things that I will not buy. It is impossible to buy anything these days that has been produced by a company that is perfectly moral and respectful of others.

I will not tell others what their morals should be in regards of a knife purchase. I might point out my opinion of the morals of the company producing the knife, but I will not try to impose my will on another in this regard.
 
Not sure what the OP is really suggesting. Are you saying we should be more amicable to those who buy counterfeits and clones AND seek justification on this forum? If so, may I suggest the opposite? Counterfeits and clones will go away if nobody buys them.

This thread will be closed so I have to post sth here before that happens.;)
 
I think this rule from the excahge says it all.

Fakes/Homages-
As fakes and homage items are a legal gray area and obviously hurt the hobby, no fake or homage items may be sold on the Exchange. Members may not knowingly sell unlicensed knockoffs or counterfeit versions of knives (or any other goods) based upon the designs of their legitimate owner, manufacturer or custom maker. Additionally, members may not sell any knife or item known or suspected to be other than as described in terms of its lineage and authenticity.

Members that seek to normalize clones by contending that IP theft is OK on some sort of sliding moral scale aren't contributing to the forum in a positive manner.

The whole argument that yes stealing in theory may be bad at times but stealing that benefits the OP is OK is spurious.
 
Reported for starting your thread title in all caps, like it some how legitimizes the thread. Clones; makers, buyers, and the knives, suck.
 
Blues Bender said:
Discussing clones on a knife forum is like discussing ricer cars on a hot rod forum.

If certain people can't understand why clones are a polarizing subject, this forum is better off without them.
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Danke42 said:
I think this rule from the excahge says it all.

Fakes/Homages-
As fakes and homage items are a legal gray area and obviously hurt the hobby, no fake or homage items may be sold on the Exchange. Members may not knowingly sell unlicensed knockoffs or counterfeit versions of knives (or any other goods) based upon the designs of their legitimate owner, manufacturer or custom maker. Additionally, members may not sell any knife or item known or suspected to be other than as described in terms of its lineage and authenticity.

Members that seek to normalize clones by contending that IP theft is OK on some sort of sliding moral scale aren't contributing to the forum in a positive manner.

The whole argument that yes stealing in theory may be bad at times but stealing that benefits the OP is OK is spurious.
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I guess I'm missing the part that says you are not allowed to personally buy one and post pictures of it? Just saying....

I personally haven't bought a clone but I have considered buying a Ganzo in the past, but for me, there are too many other budget knives in the same price range from makers like CRKT, Kershaw and Ontario to pay the same or more for a Chinese clone/homage knife. If they were sub $10, I might consider buying a couple. For me, it is not so much a "moral" decision, but an economic decision.
 
Standard78 said:
What would you suggest if I don’t like your suggestions?
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You could go somewhere else. We don't want clones here. Don't promote them, don't sell them etc. It's wrong and that's a fact. Not our fault they can get away with it. We're taking a stand.

There are so many original designs that are affordable. Pick one and don't pick the clone.
 
LG&M said:
I think their is a obligation to point out clones. It should be made clear to all who is cheating who.
I want to know if a knife I am considering is a un licensed copy.
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Did I say to not point out that something is a copy or clone? Can you read?
 
HappyDaddy said:
The notion that this can be meaningfully discussed without reference to morality (ethics) is asinine. It's entirely about ethics and morals.
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"My suggestion is that we use this thread to state our opinion on the subject of clones, homages, IP theft, and any other moral or political stance one might take on a manufacturer or a knife model that might offend your sensibilities Once you have stated your opinion, then all you need to do is refer to your post in this thread and not make a huge speech or thread crap and not destroy what might otherwise be a useful discussion."

Please read.
 
Just for curiosity, is the Ontario RAT 3 a copy of an Esee 3 or vice versa? And which one is prohibited from discussion for being a "clone"?
 
Please people. I am only trying to suggest ways for us to have a better conversation. If you don't like the suggestions it does not matter to me. I am not trying to tell people what to do or how to act. It is a suggestion.
 
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