The ESEE Warranty Does Not Cover Handles or Sheath

[B.F.U]

Did you ask if they would update their boilerplate to avoid confusion?

Here is what I said concerning changing the wording of the warranty:

"Your warranty says that you warranty "the knife" and makes no exception for the scales. The handle is part of the knife, and if you don't actually warranty the whole knife then that should be addressed clearly in your warranty."

Sorry for the misuse of "warranty" as a verb, rather than "warrant".

 

[B.F.U]

ALLHSS, thanks for posting your experience. You were very careful not to throw any accusations while simply explaining what transpired. I got three things from your post:

1. Another reconfirmation to NEVER let anyone use my knives (or chainsaws).

2. Other members here seem quick to take the side of a company who's sales are based in large part by a boldly stated warranty, rather than thanking you for passing along your experience.

3. The warranty, which only covers the blade, isn't worth much since TKC sells blades for $43 to $70, while the scales and sheath make up the other roughly 50% of the knife's cost, but aren't covered.

I'm not a business owner, and don't pretend to be one, but I do work with the general public on a daily basis and well understand that a certain percentage of people can and will do very dumb things. If I owned a company that made a consumer product, I'd chose my warranty wording very carefully..................like MOST companies do. ESEE's warranty sounds (reads) boldly, and inspires confidence and sometimes stupidity from its users. But ultimately that wording is the sole responsibility of the ESEE team. If scales and sheaths aren't part of the "No Questions Asked Warranty" then they should stipulate that alongside corrosion and normal blade wear.

These "no BS" type warranties can do wonders for a companies reputation (Leupold scopes come to mind), but the company has to be prepared to back up their claims. Well constructed fixed blade knives are pretty close to foolproof, so a bold warranty should do more for the earnings side of the books than the expense side. But at the end of the day, if that warranty is going to continue building its legendary status (and confidence in its consumers) the company needs to be prepared to back it up, even at a loss, which is a cost loss, not a retail loss. But again to reiterate, I'm not a business owner, just an active consumer.

I agree with your comments from a business perspective. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated.

 

[Ruzster]

Sounds more like a "few questions asked" bombproof warranty:

1) was it thrown? (you don't need to be the original owner/purchaser but we expect you to know regardless)
2) is it just the blade that's broken? ('cause that's not how we define "knife" for warranty purposes)
3) are you an idiot? (see #'s 1 & 2)

 

[Danke42]

Just for full disclosure I"m not in here to jeer the OP or cheer ESSE. If they had a rep posting in here I'd be asking them questions too.

I'm here to discuss the idea of what a warranty is, what it should cover and how can that be clear without TL;DR levels of words, and not by talking down to the holder of warranty.

A warranty is just another sales tool like ads but to make a pun it's a double edged situation when put on a hard use knife.

 

[B.F.U]

Just for full disclosure I"m not in here to jeer the OP or cheer ESSE. If they had a rep posting in here I'd be asking them questions too.

I'm here to discuss the idea of what a warranty is, what it should cover and how can that be clear without TL;DR levels of words, and not by talking down to the holder of warranty.

A warranty is just another sales tool like ads but to make a pun it's a double edged situation when put on a hard use knife.

I didn't think you were jeering, or talking down. No worries.

 

[Danke42]

No problems. I know people who would be incensed about the wording of the ESSE warranty as an example. And I'm not talking about on this site.

Some folks think of a warranty as more like insurance, loose drop it, get a new one. There's a whole psychology just under the surface of this.

 

[bush-haus]

I certainly feel your pain on this, but the ONLY part of that warranty that was written in All Caps is the part your friend failed to abide by. We all know you personally didn't throw the knife. Your friend seems to be the most responsible, not ESEE. Perhaps ask him to split the bill of buying new scales, if not pay for them altogether. Would be have thrown it he had shelled out $120 on a knife?

As a customer, if I read a warranty and I failed to abide by the only part in caps lock I probably would not call on the owner of the company and ask him to pay for new parts.

 

[craytab]

I want to start off by saying that I am not trying to be contentious or argue with you, I just want to explain and defend my understanding.

Here is the definition of the word "knife" according to Dictionary.com:

"an instrument composed of a blade fixed into a handle, used for cutting or as a weapon."

So, according to definition the handle is part of the knife. I would also point out that no ESEE 6 is sold without handle scales attached, so when you buy the "knife" the handle scales are a key component of your purchase of that unit. The sheath is not included in the definition, and that is why I understand it not being included in the warranty. I would say, considering this, that ESEE is incorrect at least in considering the handle scales not a part of the knife.

So, even that statement "Rowen made knives" should cover the entire knife. If they want the warranty to only cover Rowen made components of the knife then they should state, "ESEE Knives No Questions Asked Warranty on Rowen Made Components".

The knife was thrown. Somehow while being thrown the left (looking down on the spine) scale split/fractured/splintered near the middle of the scale at the butt. It split roughly 2.5" up. It was usuable in the sense that I was able to change my grip on the knife and continue to use it to slice a steak (I think that's what it was, might have been pork, or something). I then attempted to split a 2x4 off of a stump using a baton. When I hit the knife the handle screws popped/stripped and one scale hung on by half a screw and the other fell completely off. Most pieces of the screws were lost. The screw holes were damaged, and I think that the only way to use them would have been to flare tubes. However, the split scale made the handle somewhat dangerous due to the exposed fragments of g10 (this was the green blade, orange handle version). I didn't take any pictures as it seemed extremely clear to me that the knife had failed and been made unusable, and therefore would be under ESEE's "no questions asked" warranty.

The ESEE 6 is around $120 dollars with sheath. Priority shipping (which ESEE requires that customers use to send their knives in for warranty work) is around $7 depending on the box you use. If they were concerned about shipping costs it would be more profitable to give me the option of paying for new scales ($25) and at least sending them in the same package as the knife (to save them shipping costs), if not install them before sending (also saving shipping cost).

I will also add that this knife was well used, not something I took out one time and let it get thrown then broke it like an "idiot", as they say.

Thank you for your level headed comments, I honestly do appreciate them.

Dictionary definitions sometimes are not helpful. One can easily get around "fixed into a handle" with the example of a one piece knife. It is not fixed into anything and in fact scales or wraps can be added or removed. Is it not a knife then? Also, if you remove your scales, add custom scales and the knife breaks, it could be seen that you drastically changed the characteristics of the knife based on this definition. Lastly, scales breaking, screws wearing out, or a sheath getting destroyed from years of hard use could be seen as wear and tear. All these things can be replaced easily and you are back in buisness. Break the blade and you are done. Not trying to argue, just pointing out a flaw in the definition and some things to think about. You can buy just a blade but you need to add the TKC scales to the knife and TKC does warrant their scales. Don't know why that is important, just wanted to point it out.

Well, we will have to disagree on the warranty somewhat though I do agree that it should be more clear.

As for the scales, I am frankly surprised they broke like that. Contacting them before you sent it in sounds like it would have been a good idea.

 

[B.F.U]

I certainly feel your pain on this, but the ONLY part of that warranty that was written in All Caps is the part your friend failed to abide by. We all know you personally didn't throw the knife. Your friend seems to be the most responsible, not ESEE. Perhaps ask him to split the bill of buying new scales, if not pay for them altogether. Would be have thrown it if it were his?

As a customer, if I read a warranty and I failed to abide by the only part in caps lock I probably would not call on the owner of the company and ask him to pay for new parts.

Thank you for your post, but your missing where both the warranty and Mr. Perrin stated that the fact that it was thrown was not why they didn't perform any warranty service, and that they do fix knives that have broken due to throwing. The only expressed reason is that they don't warrant the handles or sheaths, and the purpose of this thread is to warn prospective customers of this fact because the warranty is misleading by stating that "the knife" is covered by a no questions asked warranty.

Also, I don't think my friend would have thrown it had he known how expensive it was, or any of this, or in a different situation.

 

[craytab]

I certainly feel your pain on this, but the ONLY part of that warranty that was written in All Caps is the part your friend failed to abide by. We all know you personally didn't throw the knife. Your friend seems to be the most responsible, not ESEE. Perhaps ask him to split the bill of buying new scales, if not pay for them altogether. Would be have thrown it he had shelled out $120 on a knife?

As a customer, if I read a warranty and I failed to abide by the only part in caps lock I probably would not call on the owner of the company and ask him to pay for new parts.

"ESEE KNIVES ARE NOT THROWING KNIVES! They are hardened to a higher Rockwell than throwing knives and will most likely break if thrown, possibly harming the user. So, do yourself and your ESEE knife a favor and DO NOT throw it. Using any knife not meant to be thrown as a throwing knife is idiotic! We would rather idiots not buy our knives."

No where does it say the knife will not be replaced and they have been replaced when broken while throwing in the past. Still a stupid idea though.

 

[DAVE_M]

I'm confused. What ESEE 6 has flared tubes holding the scales on?

 

[B.F.U]

"ESEE KNIVES ARE NOT THROWING KNIVES! They are hardened to a higher Rockwell than throwing knives and will most likely break if thrown, possibly harming the user. So, do yourself and your ESEE knife a favor and DO NOT throw it. Using any knife not meant to be thrown as a throwing knife is idiotic! We would rather idiots not buy our knives."

No where does it say the knife will not be replaced and they have been replaced when broken while throwing in the past. Still a stupid idea though.

I do agree that it's not smart to throw a 6. It's not like it's anywhere near a design that would facilitate throwing.

I was just being honest when I filled out the warranty form.

 

[B.F.U]

Dictionary definitions sometimes are not helpful. One can easily get around "fixed into a handle" with the example of a one piece knife. It is not fixed into anything and in fact scales or wraps can be added or removed. Is it not a knife then? Also, if you remove your scales, add custom scales and the knife breaks, it could be seen that you drastically changed the characteristics of the knife based on this definition. Lastly, scales breaking, screws wearing out, or a sheath getting destroyed from years of hard use could be seen as wear and tear. All these things can be replaced easily and you are back in buisness. Break the blade and you are done. Not trying to argue, just pointing out a flaw in the definition and some things to think about. You can buy just a blade but you need to add the TKC scales to the knife and TKC does warrant their scales. Don't know why that is important, just wanted to point it out.

Well, we will have to disagree on the warranty somewhat though I do agree that it should be more clear.

As for the scales, I am frankly surprised they broke like that. Contacting them before you sent it in sounds like it would have been a good idea.

I didn't know about TKC, I'll look into that. Thank you!

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. Throw it in there somewhere that the scales and sheath aren't covered, seems important.

I was really really surprised, and disappointed. That's why I sent it in. I should have called first, and now wish I had.

 

[B.F.U]

I'm confused. What ESEE 6 has flared tubes holding the scales on?

I explained that two times in the thread, I think. I meant that once the screws broke and marred the holes in the process, flared tubes would have been the only way to use the scales (though doing so would still have been dangerous).

 

[bush-haus]

"ESEE KNIVES ARE NOT THROWING KNIVES! They are hardened to a higher Rockwell than throwing knives and will most likely break if thrown, possibly harming the user. So, do yourself and your ESEE knife a favor and DO NOT throw it. Using any knife not meant to be thrown as a throwing knife is idiotic! We would rather idiots not buy our knives."

No where does it say the knife will not be replaced and they have been replaced when broken while throwing in the past. Still a stupid idea though.

I am just saying have a sense of personal responsibility over expensive tools. If I buy a nice car and is still under warranty, I don't peel out at every stop light just because my car is covered "bumper to bumper." If i let a friend borrow an expensive tool, I will tell him how much it's worth and what it means to me. If he breaks it, I would never call out the warranty, I make it right between me and my friend.
I understand the point of the OP, it is just to educate us on the warranty without bashing ESEE which is admirable. Perhaps though, a different path should have originally been taken... At least I would have. I know I know, I am a dying breed.

 

[B.F.U]

I am just saying have a sense of personal responsibility over expensive tools. If I buy a nice car and is still under warranty, I don't peel out at every stop light just because my car is covered "bumper to bumper." If i let a friend borrow an expensive tool, I will tell him how much it's worth and what it means to me. If he breaks it, I would never call out the warranty, I make it right between me and my friend.
I understand the point of the OP, it is just to educate us on the warranty without bashing ESEE which is admirable. Perhaps though, a different path should have originally been taken... At least I would have. I know I know, I am a dying breed.

The warranty is part of the product. It doesn't make you a "dying breed" that you'd rather make your friend pay for the repair than use the warranty that you paid for as part of the purchase price. Thank you for your positive words on the purpose of this thread though.

 

[DAVE_M]

I explained that two times in the thread, I think. I meant that once the screws broke and marred the holes in the process, flared tubes would have been the only way to use the scales (though doing so would still have been dangerous).

Ahhhh gotcha.

It's obvious, but you should always read the warranty before you buy a knife.

 

[B.F.U]

Ahhhh gotcha.

It's obvious, but you should always read the warranty before you buy a knife.

I'm not trying to be snarky, but that's the whole point of this thread: the warranty doesn't say that handles and sheaths are not covered. I made this thread so people would know that because ESEE had neglected to state it in the warranty.

 

[RIPtastic]

One of Esses's biggest selling points is their "No questions asked" warranty. You break it we fix it. Obviously theres a little more to it than that. I thank the op for bringing this to our attention so we can be more informed buyers in the future.

 

[tek77]

I have a bark river Aurora. The scales separated from the tang. Sent it in and they re-attached it for free. If scale was broken, they would have replaced it.
Warranty is warranty.
Don't advertise it if you're not gonna come through with it.

Don't care much about warranty with fine print.

Knew about this warranty issue with Esee.
Thank you for educating whoever doesn't know about it.