The ethics of selling knives

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aersixb9

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I make fighting knives, and I've started selling them to people. I'm worried that the knives will be used for violent crimes, although I haven't sold to anyone yet that I thought would commit a crime with the knife, you never know about people and I'm kind of not that picky about who I sell to. I understand that everyone has the right to own weapons under the 2nd amendment - but what are my responsibilities to the community when I make and sell fighting knives? Am I ethically okay, as a weapon seller, to sell weapons that may be used violently? Especially when that is the primary intent of the knife when it is made. I understand that many people want a knife for self defense, however I'm beginning to think that some of my customers are going to go on the offense with their knives. What should I do? I need the money from the knives...

This thread is a a waste of bandwidth. Closed due to lack of merit in any shape , form , or fashion. Bottom line.
Mark
 
Personally I would say that you should make utility knives if you are that worried about it. It seems to me that there would be a higher demand for utility knives anyway.
You don't have to be limited to little stuff either, you can make large choppers (I.E. Busse Battle Mistress) or camp knives/hunters etc.
It would also make a difference how you market them. In this day and age very very few people have any need/business for using a knife as a weapon. Guns and pepper spray are much easier to use for self defense, and in the case of the gun, more effective.
What kind of knives do you mostly make? You said "fighting" but what kind of blade shapes and lengths?
 
I make double edged full tang stainless steel knives. I also make a single-edged utility knife. I make serrated and non-serrated knives too. Most of my customers want fighting knives, and not the utility knives! Guns aren't popular, since they're harder to conceal (unless it's a little, tiny gun) and mostly illegal or impractical to carry, compared to a good knife. Very few people on the street carry a gun, while many carry a knife or other metallic weapon. Pepper spray is good...I don't personally use it because it's not 100% effective like a good knife is, and it's easy to block with a hand or sweatshirt. I also cannot manufacture pepper spray, or I would probably sell it!

You can see a picture of one of my knives at LINK REMOVED DUE TO YOU PEOPLE KILLING MY WEB SERVER!!! SORRY!
 
What you've got in your pic is not a knife, I would refer to it as a shiv.

2nd, knives don't kill people, people kill people.

C. The gun companies just make the guns, like you are just making knives.

4. if you are really concerned don't put your name on anything you sell and wipe it down real good so your fingerprints are not on it.
 
It is not the knife but the person who controls the knife. You have no control over free will.
 
I have a bad feeling about this thread...

By the way, I agree, that is a shiv. If I were selling those I might worry about my clientele too. Don't make knives like that if you don't want people to use them. I believe you'll be able to make more money from nicer knives and you won't have to worry about it.
 
more people are killed by kitchen knives every year the any other knife style
i still dont like to advertise the knives i make for defense i make them when asked and it feels right i also charge extra so to make the buyer think 2 times before usign the knife. but thats just me
 
If you spend more time on each knife and make it very unique and custom, they will sell for a higher price and most people don't want to use their $100-$300 knife in a way that could get it confiscated or would have to ditch the evidence.

I suggest a belt grinder to smooth out what your bench grinder leaves behind.
 
I agree with ASaint, the weapons you're making have only one possible use. If that worries you, (and I hope that it does) don't make them..
 
Where is this shiv pic you guys are talkin about? You've aroused my curiousity.

I'm kinda thinking that when knives are outlawed only outlaws will have knives. What I'm saying is that you can hurt someone with a LOT of different tools: screwdrivers, chainsaws, chisels, prybars, hammers and on and on.

What someone does with the knife you sell them is their business. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Of course if he cuts himself with the knife you made, you might get sued. Of course he will still be a jerk and his lawyer will be something that needs to be scraped off your shoes...............

****end of ranting****

Syn
 
I think your instincts are trying to tell you something. Many of us listen carefully and respectfully to our instincts.

Rob!
 
I sell knives with a clear conscience, they're just tools. If I was a Stanley tool rep, and a hammer was used in a crime, I wouldn't quit selling hammers.
Besides, the mortality staistics, death by use of knife,dagger or sword; has the United States listed as #38 in countries of the world at .0304328 deaths per million people.
 
The likelihood of one of your custom knive being used in a murder is probably somewhere between the odds of you actually seeing Bigfoot and winning the Power Ball this week..........without having bought a ticket. If you are worried about this, then you have definately taken up the wrong hobby.:D
 
If I was a Stanley tool rep, and a hammer was used in a crime, I wouldn't quit selling hammers.

.... but would it surprise you if the hammer was used to drive a nail.

aersixb9 designs and markets those particular models for a purpose. His customers are buying the knife for that purpose. They don't want a utility knife (tool) - and it's reasonable to presume they will be used for the design purpose - just as a hammer would.

Good discussion. I've considered the subject often when someone asks me make them a fighter.

Rob!
 
Damn Joe, why do you have to be so negative, hitting the power ball is the only hope I've got for retirement. :D


If it bothers you to sell these, then don't sell them.They do look like a piece that might have only one real purpose, but there's a lot of collectors that like to have a variety in their collections also, so its really up to you and for you to be concerned enough to even ask, should tell you something. I wouldn't make and sell anything I was uncomfortable selling, the little bit of money you make from knife sales isn't worth the worries.

Just my 2 cents,

Bill
 
I have met makers who expressly made and designed their knives in such a way as to avoid ever having one of them being used as a weapon.

Not exactly what I would call a 100% foolproof method, but the effort to that effect helped him sleep at night.

There really is no cut and dried right and wrong answer to this sort of question. It really boils down to your opinion of the secondary enabler position, and its importance in the commission of a crime.

For example, as many have already pointed out, the weapon does not do the killing, but rather the person using the weapon does the killing.

On the other hand, somebody made that weapon, be it a firearm or a knife.

Flip side to that of course, is that the person who made the weapon created nothing more than a replaceable tool, and the violent miscreant who misused that tool would have done the same with a different tool had that one not been available.

and then, of course, the response to that is the obvious intent of the design. For example, a shiv like is under discussion is quite obviously a people cutting knife. It was not made to cut boxes, clean fish, skin game, or whittle a block of wood. It would be akward at any of those tasks when compared to a knife properly made to the task in question.

And, again, yet another response to that.

So on and so on and so on and so on... Ad infinitum!

Fact of the matter is, you really need to answer two basic questions:

1: do you choose to blame the one with blood on his hands for his actions, or the one who created the scary looking tool he happened to have?

2: do you believe that in designing a weapon that is quite obviously a weapon with no other legitimate purpose you are influencing people to use that weapon in an illegal, irresponsable, or unethical manner?

I, personally choose to blame the guilty. I choose to blame myself for making knives. It is something I like doing, that can be mildly profitable from time to time. Of the crime of bladesmithing, I am guilty as charged.

I also blame violent crime on violent criminals. For one reason or another, a given individual displays a lack of sufficient self control, discipline, or concern. Be it a temporary or chronic flaw, the flaw is not to be blamed on me just because it was a knife I made in his hands when he went wrong. It could have just as easily been a bat, a gun, a pen, a letter opener, etc. If I hadn't made the knife, he still would have screwed up.

As for the second question, no. Knives do not make you go cut someone anymore than guns make you go shoot someone. So it looks scary to some, so freaking what? Did violent crime drop one iota due to the so called assault weapon ban our good friend billy force fed us a few years back? Although all of the really scary looking guns were supposed to be out of reach, people got shot anyway.

Finally, you can rest pretty well knowing that if you charge a hundred dollars or more, the chances are your knife won't be used in a criminal act. That is NOTto say that noone with even that modest means could be a violent criminal. Far from it. It is, however, very easy to find knives for under a hundred bucks. They are common. They are everywhere. Sombody has to WANT a really good knife to pay $100.00 or more for a single knife. The folks who want a well made knife that bad aren't about to pony up the required cash just to go get it taken by the fuzz when they step out of line with their new purchase!
 
What kind of steel do you use aersixb9? I would also be interested in how you heat treat it. Also, generally what length are your fighting knives? And...What do you usually charge for you knives? Sorry if this sounds like the Spanish Inquisition, but I am a curious .
 
I believe all of the points listed so far have been valid ones, but some folks may have missed the picture of the knife style in question. One or two might go to some sort of eclectic collection, but the tool I saw was not very multi-functional.

I am curious how much you charge for these blades as well.
 
smells bad, the whole thread.

i vote thumbs down, no info in the guys profile etc. etc. :thumbdn:

call YOUR knife the ninja head chopper/death slayer 1000

make your Momma proud
 
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