The ethics of selling knives

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I just saw that you edited your post. We killed your webserver because the image was 2.1M :eek:

I cropped and resized the picture and placed it on my website so folks here can see it. Let me know if this is not ok for you and I will remove it.

knife1.jpg


This is the item in question.
 
I have met makers who expressly made and designed their knives in such a way as to avoid ever having one of them being used as a weapon.

Not exactly what I would call a 100% foolproof method, but the effort to that effect helped him sleep at night.

There really is no cut and dried right and wrong answer to this sort of question. It really boils down to your opinion of the secondary enabler position, and its importance in the commission of a crime.

For example, as many have already pointed out, the weapon does not do the killing, but rather the person using the weapon does the killing.

On the other hand, somebody made that weapon, be it a firearm or a knife.

Flip side to that of course, is that the person who made the weapon created nothing more than a replaceable tool, and the violent miscreant who misused that tool would have done the same with a different tool had that one not been available.

and then, of course, the response to that is the obvious intent of the design. For example, a shiv like is under discussion is quite obviously a people cutting knife. It was not made to cut boxes, clean fish, skin game, or whittle a block of wood. It would be akward at any of those tasks when compared to a knife properly made to the task in question.

And, again, yet another response to that.

So on and so on and so on and so on... Ad infinitum!

Fact of the matter is, you really need to answer two basic questions:

1: do you choose to blame the one with blood on his hands for his actions, or the one who created the scary looking tool he happened to have?

2: do you believe that in designing a weapon that is quite obviously a weapon with no other legitimate purpose you are influencing people to use that weapon in an illegal, irresponsable, or unethical manner?

I, personally choose to blame the guilty. I choose to blame myself for making knives. It is something I like doing, that can be mildly profitable from time to time. Of the crime of bladesmithing, I am guilty as charged.

I also blame violent crime on violent criminals. For one reason or another, a given individual displays a lack of sufficient self control, discipline, or concern. Be it a temporary or chronic flaw, the flaw is not to be blamed on me just because it was a knife I made in his hands when he went wrong. It could have just as easily been a bat, a gun, a pen, a letter opener, etc. If I hadn't made the knife, he still would have screwed up.

As for the second question, no. Knives do not make you go cut someone anymore than guns make you go shoot someone. So it looks scary to some, so freaking what? Did violent crime drop one iota due to the so called assault weapon ban our good friend billy force fed us a few years back? Although all of the really scary looking guns were supposed to be out of reach, people got shot anyway.

Finally, you can rest pretty well knowing that if you charge a hundred dollars or more, the chances are your knife won't be used in a criminal act. That is NOTto say that noone with even that modest means could be a violent criminal. Far from it. It is, however, very easy to find knives for under a hundred bucks. They are common. They are everywhere. Sombody has to WANT a really good knife to pay $100.00 or more for a single knife. The folks who want a well made knife that bad aren't about to pony up the required cash just to go get it taken by the fuzz when they step out of line with their new purchase!

I, for one, would NEVER want to have a knife that could not be used as a weapon in a pinch. What kind of knives are we talking about? Half of a broken pair of kindergarten safety scissors? With that said, I have little or no use for a knife that is strictly a weapon, like a Sykes-Fairbairn or a push dagger beyond their novelty. The days of knves and swords being priary weapons are long gone, so I thnk that even a knife which is called a fighter should be capable of other more general tasks. What I would sell as a "fighter" would be a mid-sized clip, drop or spear point knife in the 6-8 inch range. Samller thn that and it's a hunter. Bigger, then it is a bowie or camp knife.
 
I just saw that you edited your post. We killed your webserver because the image was 2.1M :eek:

I cropped and resized the picture and placed it on my website so folks here can see it. Let me know if this is not ok for you and I will remove it.

knife1.jpg


This is the item in question.

Looks like a badly forged letter opener to me...............ummmmm.........are you telling me that this is the knife in question? Clear that up for me.
 
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knife1.jpg


This is the item in question.


That's not a knife--that's a "Shank".

What everyone said before is true. It's the person that is the killer, not an inanimate object. If you start this blame sharing thing, you will inevitably come to the conclusion that it's ultimately "societies fault" and the perp doesn't shoulder his full guilt as he should.

Having said that, I wouldn't hock shanks to the hommies.
 
Okay then...................... I see why the pic disappeared.

I have never criticized ny knife anyone on here made but......this one is different.

My only comment is that if I made that (unless I was in an institution and made it out of chunk of broken bedframe ground on the concrete) I wouldn't be showing it off to anyone much less talking about selling it.

Syn
 
They're around six inches long. I've been charging $5. They're stainless steel. They're not heat treated, I'm not even familiar with heat treating steel!

As for guns being the primary weapons of our society, I doubt very much that if you walk into a crowded bar anybody will have a gun, but several people will probably have knives. Many knives I've seen sold in stores, including those in the $50+ range, break during combat! I'm not saying any of the knives here do (although wood/bone handles tend to break in combat) and folding knives frequently break on the fold. At least my shivs don't break in combat.

To be on topic; I think that we've almost achieved a peaceful society. There is very little fear of violence when going about a persons' daily activities, especially if one is careful. Assault weapons, or tools that are designed to kill or cripple humans, are very rare. I hope to perfect my weapon crafting, and eventually craft weapons such as firearms, tanks, missiles, and hydrogen weapons systems. (Maybe not that last one :) ) Is it responsible of me to bring these things to the (black) market, knowing that in our peaceful society nobody has human-destroying tools? There was a stabbing recently in my home town, and the knife broke during the stabbing. Good thing that wasn't a good assault knife! On the other hand, weapons may be an important part of being human and thinning the herd? I'll think about it more carefully, especially if I ever progress to uncommon weapons that have the power to kill many humans in a short amount of time...
 
Okay then...................... I see why the pic disappeared.

I have never criticized ny knife anyone on here made but......this one is different.

My only comment is that if I made that (unless I was in an institution and made it out of chunk of broken bedframe ground on the concrete) I wouldn't be showing it off to anyone much less talking about selling it.

Syn
I, on the there hand, have been accused once or twice of making insensitive and possibly inflammatory remarks on here before, usually related to postings regarding certain persons outrageous claims about their past, etc. and maybe one or two snide comments about said person's handiwork. Maybe this makes me a bad person, but all I can say about the pic is who would buy it.........outside of a correctional insititution, that is? Stop selling to juvenile delinquents and bar brawlers and learn to make KNIVES.........ones that are heat treated perhaps.
 
Looks like a badly forged letter opener to me...............ummmmm.........are you telling me that this is the knife in question? Clear that up for me.

The picture is of the knife the OP made. It's the "fighting knife" referenced in this thread.
 
so you are saying you make crappy shanks for dirtbags to use in barfights?

anyone can badly grind a piece of metal, but you have to wonder who would try selling them, and also- what kind of scum would want to buy one. . .
 
---------
I changed my mind after hitting the post button...

I wouldn't sell shanks to people. Anyone who doesn't mind all the scratches and humpty bumpty grinds all over that, is looking to stab someone with it, and chuck it. Possibly using gloves, and preserving your fingerprints.
 
They're around six inches long. I've been charging $5. They're stainless steel. They're not heat treated, I'm not even familiar with heat treating steel!

As for guns being the primary weapons of our society, I doubt very much that if you walk into a crowded bar anybody will have a gun, but several people will probably have knives. Many knives I've seen sold in stores, including those in the $50+ range, break during combat! I'm not saying any of the knives here do (although wood/bone handles tend to break in combat) and folding knives frequently break on the fold. At least my shivs don't break in combat.

To be on topic; I think that we've almost achieved a peaceful society. There is very little fear of violence when going about a persons' daily activities, especially if one is careful. Assault weapons, or tools that are designed to kill or cripple humans, are very rare. I hope to perfect my weapon crafting, and eventually craft weapons such as firearms, tanks, missiles, and hydrogen weapons systems. (Maybe not that last one :) ) Is it responsible of me to bring these things to the (black) market, knowing that in our peaceful society nobody has human-destroying tools? There was a stabbing recently in my home town, and the knife broke during the stabbing. Good thing that wasn't a good assault knife! On the other hand, weapons may be an important part of being human and thinning the herd? I'll think about it more carefully, especially if I ever progress to uncommon weapons that have the power to kill many humans in a short amount of time...

You are certainly welcome to post your views, but I feel you may be posting in the wrong forum. You may have noticed, Bladeforums primary topic is about knives, not creating weapons of mass destruction to thin out the herd!:eek:
 
a few thoughts:

if you worked at a liquor store would you sell alcohol to a drunk?

you are not the only knifemaker to purchase from.

I like fighting knives because of their styling and balance.

don't make knives if it bothers you that much.

my father stopped maintaning airplanes because he could not take the stress of worrying about something failing up in the air.

if somebody wants to kill somebody that somebody will find a way with or without your knife.

...........Kevin...........
 
""How old are you?12?13?"

Dohhhhhhhhhhhhhh.............. I never thought about that.

Bad Syn baddddddddddddddddd

If I'd made something like this when I was 12 or 13 I wouldn't have been allowed to touch a tool till I moved out and bought my own. Tools that is.

Syn
 
The "I need the money/$5 price tag is a bit of a giveaway, ain't it? I am asking $150-300 for my knives and I can't be in a position to "need the money" at this stage.Regardless of whether he is a kid or not, perhaps he should STOP hanging out with anyone who needs such a "tool" and start hanging out with guys who actually make knives. Funny as it may sound, we are a much better class of miscreant:eek::D
 
If only 12 or 13, I hope he's not selling these shanks to kids at his school.


Do you REALLY think anyone in their right mind above the age of 13 would buy them?(excluding the incarcerated)



edited to add: no attack meant toward you El Toro
 
thats not a knife in the picture. a sticker yes at best and ive seen better work done by inmates.
im done with this post have fun guys
 
There will always be good, trustworthy customers. Hold your knife until one of them come to you. If you have a reason to believe that the customer you are talking about will use the knife for a wrong purpose, do not sell it to the customer. Even though I know very, very little about selling knives, logic tells me that your knife will be sold soon to another customer who will use the knife for a better purpose. Be patient and keep doing what you do. I'm certain that a minority of wrongdoers isn't going to stop you from your knifemaking.
 
Do you REALLY think anyone in their right mind above the age of 13 would buy them?(excluding the incarcerated)

Those were my thoughts exactly. I'm finished with this thread as well, as I think it is just some kid trolling.
 
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