The first secret project -- the BirGorkhka Everest katana. Pix.

Hi, just wanted to drop in my two cents. I practice Kuk Sul Won(it is a Korean Style). We use several different types of swords, from straight Japanese to custom korean. It's mostly a matter of what you can get your hands on...recently the supply of aluminum practice swords that went for about $150 dried up. I for one think this would be a great sword to fill in and it would be a "live" blade too. I would be very interested in getting one when they are ready. I think that just "word of mouth" advertisment based on the number of replies I have seen so far would probably sell a few dozen a year...sounds like yet another great project. Patiently waiting for more good things to come...

Cris H.
Tango18@aol.com
 
The fingergrooves were completely the kamis idea. I kinda like 'em.

I mentioned filling in the grooves ONLY if you're going to do a rayskin and cord wrap. In that case, the fill would be totally covered and isn't therefore "blasphemy".

You could also re-profile the wood on a belt grinder, or have it done.

Jim
 
According to my Tai chi sensei who also has a Dan 3 in kendo and has been practicing Iaido (traditional katana forms) there are a few remarks.

the name of his sensei is:
Master Kubo Akira 7th Dan kendo & Iaido. Owner and head instruction of Tokyo Kyumeikan Dojo.


I know some of them have been addressed - but still:

The shape of the blade looks good, and he sees no reason not to make them in Nepal - he said he has seen great blades that came from places other then Japan.

The handle must NOT have the grooves - it prevents the traditional use of one hand - two hand maneuvers, cause you can't slide your hands on the handle - which is important when you fight with the katana.

It's hard to see from the picture - but the blade should run all the way (almost) to the tip of the handle (this part of the blade is covered by the hands of the man in the picture)


Apart from that - he said one has to feel the balance and "feel" of the sword in order to evaluate it.

Hope this helps.



[This message has been edited by Blilious (edited 02-28-2000).]
 
Jim is right. The handle you see was the creation of the kamis. They asked me if I objected to their coming up with a handle design and I have learned to let them have at it. They often come up with very good ideas.

They were thinking of swinging the sword VERY hard and felt you needed a decent grip to keep it from slipping from your hands. None of them had ever seen a Japanese sword before and none of them are martial artists. Based on their concept of use I think the handle came out okay. They will be happy to put on any handle you might want, or no handle at all.

Stay tuned. We still have to get from prototype to top quality.

Many thanks for all the input. As I've said, I know nothing about katanas so I'm depending of the experts here to do my job for me.

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
I wonder why kamis didn't make kinda their traditional khukuri type handle, which will stand an extreme impact and centrifugal power of heavy khukuris. If a large size khukuri handle could get a little bit longer and thinner, it'll be enough for me. Such handle will give more HI smell to HIEK, even more, it will decrease my hesitation in using a katana for chores.


....btw no HIEK blems yet?

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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
By Jove Wrongfriend that is an incredible idea! I think that it is one of the best yet! IMHO. Just had to drop in my two cents.

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"Clear a path for the Kukhri or it will clear one for itself"
 
Wrongfriend, this IS mechanically a Khukuri grip!

That was my original idea, have the kamis do what amounts to a long thin Khukuri grip.

What we have here is a long thin stick tang with the current "radiused shoulders" at the tang-to-blade junction, running all the way to the pommel and peened over through a keeper...JUST like a Khukuri.

The ONLY difference is that there's also two small holes in the tang, with retaining pins running through the wood and tang made out of hand-forged leaf spring steel. They seem to have done this to keep this long thin wood grip from flexing too much, which is probably a good idea.

In other words, despite the two pins this is NOT a full-tang slab-sided grip. The wood is "tubular" just like a Khukuri, there's that "gorilla snot" epoxy down the middle of the tube for impact absorbtion, etc.

It's a stretched reinforced Khukuri grip
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!

Jim
 
That's great...just great. If with a little bit thicker blade it'll be a perfect katana nothing but HI made. Now I can't but envy you living in US where you can legally have swords of any types.

And how about REVERSE khukuri handle on it? Just food for thinking, but in using katana in MA way, one will have more chance to thrust than to pull while swinging it. There may be some who would like at least to try.

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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
In classical Japanese swordsmanship, pull-cuts and push-cuts are of EQUAL importance. Which one you do depends entirely on the effect you want to have on the other guy and more importantly, on his 3ft razor blade.

Let's take a simple example. You've managed to completely outmaneuver your opponent with fast footwork and/or other trickery. You're now standing *beside* him, you're looking right at him, his right shoulder is pointing at you, his sword is pointing straight ahead of him.

He's screwed. No question. You've still got to finish the deal. If you have your blade at his throat/chest, you do a PUSH cut. If at the back of his neck or less optimally, at his back, you PULL.

Why is this? Because either way, you want to "spin" him (and his sharp pointy metal bit) AWAY from you.

There's infinite variations on this theme. If things are happening in a more vertical plane, you may need to avoid pulling his blade into your legs. Or you may want to position your blade for a second follow-up cut. Or positioning post-cut to deal with his buddy rushing up may be a factor. Whatever. The choice between pulls and pushes depends entirely on the situation and not on "which type is best".

Therefore a Katana has no inherent prefence for pulls versus pushes.

The other thing is, genuine Japanese swordspersonship (to be PC
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) is a game of positioning and footwork, especially sideways, circling or off-angles. Which is why they weren't big on "rigid battle formations".

In personal combat, their stuff worked real well. In mass combat...my personal opinion is, a Roman Legion or Greek Hoplite Phalanx could have cleaned the clocks of an equivelent size mob of Bushido, at least on foot.

(Khukuri link: the Hoplite's main weapons were heavy spears. Their backups were, more or less, Sirupatis (about 20") with a funky curved pommel. Alexander brought them to Nepal around, what, 350ish BC?)

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 03-01-2000).]
 
:
I've been following this thread with much interest. First of all I don't know Anything about the Katana except I could still kick my butt for not buying a "real" one several years ago for $250.00. Its major problem was some fairly major chips towards the point where some ignorant fool had done some major chopping on something they shouldn't have. Its minor problem is that there was no scabbard for it. Perhaps it was one of those old family treasures that had been put in the modern scabbard as I have read some were done that way.
From what little I have learned about the blades up to now makes me believe that it was one of the better swords of the day. I think that would have accounted for the chipping. The edge was still major Sharp!!
Still.....

I don't see one of these for me in the near future, But I am really glad to see H.I. make something that could compete and exceed with the best that has been offered up to now in the cheaper models.

Now what I believe that would make everyone poop their pants is to see them come through with authentic Hamon lines ala the clay tempering.
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I would Absolutely Love to See that Happen just to get to see Jim's outburst of pure Joy.
I believe that Jim would do much more than just "poop" his pants.
I can just see him now in some kind of airlner in the restroom fondleing his H.I. Katana and the noises that wuld be comeing from there on the intercom
I Truly Believe that Jim would put that purty little gurl to Shame!!
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That would be enough to make me see one in my near future!! LMRRAO.
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>>>>---¥vsa---->®

"Know your own bone, gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it again."

'Thoreau'

Khukuri FAQ

[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 03-02-2000).]
 
Maybe some of the conscientious objections from Japanese practicioners could be avoided by calling this piece by a more local name, such as a "Dhalwel" or a "Dha."

That way, people would not feel "guilty" about supporting non-traditional ( or anti-traditional) ideas, while the Nepalese smiths could have yet another indigenous creation to be proud of.

ruel
 
Wait...there's two aspects to "traditional" when talking Katanas.

There's cosmetic, and then there's "balance and handling".

The HI should do well in the latter. It ain't going to look original, but offsetting that it'll be tough as nails, especially the grip, when compared to more original-LOOKING pieces.

There's a valid market for pieces that neither look NOR handle/balance like an original. Examples include the Mad Dog Saxon and the Criswell pieces. Both exceed the toughness of even most of the "old masters" pieces...but if you're studying original techniques, they ain't for you.

Bill strongly favors calling this new project the "Everest Katana", and I agree - because nobody is trying to "mask" it's origins or the areas of difference from an original.

There's nothing wrong with the HI pieces being non-traditional looking...especially given the relatively low production. You want tough and functional and usable with original training and techniques, this baby will be a real tempting plaything
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.

Jim
 
Jim, I didn't mean the reverse handle idea to neglect pull-cut case, I can point out that there is no way to swing or wield a katana to maximize its momentum, they just "turns" for more speed. Such an action puts little centrifugal power against the user's hands that the handle doesn't have to have any equipment against centrifugal power. Instead, what I had in my mind was a pure thrust attack and not a push-cut. In this case, which actually happens, the user needs more support from the handle than he needs in push/pull cut. I know any equipment might spoil in variation and changing of grip that traditional way demands. But...I admit I'm a little biased that I'd like to see resemblance on HI katanas to HI khukuris than katana-likes all around . So hamon is more than a eye pleaseing pattern on the surface but a result of whole manufactufing process, origin where material sand iron came from, how it was melted and carbonized (or decarbonized) and what materials it was composed of, how it was heat treated and tempered, and how it was honed, polished, sometimes anodized. I'd like clay tempering by kami's practical judgement and don't care how it looks. Also "mei (or may)", characters on its tongue is the swordsmith's signature and duplicating it would nothing but decreasing its value. "H.I" logo in Devanagali on the tongue will make a great mei IMO, by representing the manufacturer.
It may sound queer, but samurai fought in sports-like or "polite" way in the battlefield until 400 years ago. Then a shogun, Oda Nobunaga employed more systematic, cold way into battle. He was the first to use both of "Phalanx" with ten or more feet lance, and GUNS in battle in Japan. Not many people felt his way attractive, when peaceful era started after his death, samurais came back to their favorite katanas again.

It got too long. Also, too serious for me! None of the above is an expert's thoghtful observation, but just describing my taste with its reason.

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\(^o^)/ Mizutani Satoshi \(^o^)/
 
Just out of curiosity; would anybody else be interested in a HI wakizashi at some stage further down the line, once the katana's been perfected and got under way? Something with, say, a 19" blade, weight around a pound and a half? Partly as a companion piece to the katana, of course; but also for those like me who actually prefer the shorter blade.

 
Hi everyone,

Jim March said: "Wait...there's two aspects to "traditional" when talking Katanas. There's cosmetic, and then there's "balance and handling".

That's true. My post about renaming it a "Dha" or "Dhalwel" was meant to address objections from people whose thinking derives from the 'cosmetic' camp, as you so nicely put it. Like many traditional weapons (though perhaps to a higher degree), the Katana has transcended its purely functional aspect to became a cultural artifact. As such, any tampering with its aesthetics might be seen as tampering with the culture itself.

Because I'm outside that culture, such concerns don't bother me much. But I would still be personally inclined to "think" of it as a Dha or Dhalwel, because that's what it looks most like to me!

ruel
 
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