The Holy Grail of knife collecting?

Sargent 666 said:
Did Bo like em'?
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http://www.bladeartists.com/williamscagel.html

William "Bill" Scagel literally created the base pattern for nearly every modern tactical, hunting, and skinning knife, as well as nearly all of today's functional cutlery knives. He's called the "Father of modern cutlery." See the gallery below, and here's a brief bio:

William Wales Scagel (1875-1963), of Fruitport, Michigan, was the foremost knife maker of the 20th century. He is known as "The Father of the 20th Century Cutlery." Scagel was unique since he made knives with handmade tools and antique forging instruments and without the use of electricity from his workshop. He lived on the second story of this barn-like structure he called "Dogwood Nub."

His life was completely frontier, as he hated electricity.

During the polio epidemic of 1939, many physicians would bring Scagel measurements of afflicted children. With this information Scagel made ornate and perfectly functional braces, and he never rendered a charge for this service. These are worth hundreds of thousands today, whereas he would ask $15 to $25 for a custom knife.


He led a solitary lifestyle for most of his nearly 90 years of life. No photographs of him are known to exist, and only one painting (see it below). Beyond his avoidance of the utility company, he had a fear of doctors. He allegedly performed surgery on himself to set his broken wrist and even extracted his own teeth and made his own dentures. Everything he needed, he made, and believed one should be self sufficient. He thought that health came from avoidance of complex modern systems including electricity and complicated foods, and was healthy into his late 80's, working every day long hours in his shop, with only hand equipment.


Many of the knives he made were sold through Abercrombie & Fitch in New York. The Smithsonian Institution purchased numerous Scagel knives, machetes, and other chopping instruments to equip numerous scientific expeditions and explorations during the first half of the 20th century. Today, almost every hunting or fishing knife made in the world can be traced back to a pattern created by Scagel. An amusing story is that the Smithsonian considered Scagels utilitarian, and used them on expeditions to get other items of value, whereas a single Scagel knife in good condition today can auction for more than $40,000, and one of the few guns he decorated recently auctioned for $80,000!
 
J85909266 said:
http://www.bladeartists.com/williamscagel.html

William "Bill" Scagel literally created the base pattern for nearly every modern tactical, hunting, and skinning knife, as well as nearly all of today's functional cutlery knives. He's called the "Father of modern cutlery." See the gallery below, and here's a brief bio:

William Wales Scagel (1875-1963), of Fruitport, Michigan, was the foremost knife maker of the 20th century. He is known as "The Father of the 20th Century Cutlery." Scagel was unique since he made knives with handmade tools and antique forging instruments and without the use of electricity from his workshop. He lived on the second story of this barn-like structure he called "Dogwood Nub."

His life was completely frontier, as he hated electricity.

During the polio epidemic of 1939, many physicians would bring Scagel measurements of afflicted children. With this information Scagel made ornate and perfectly functional braces, and he never rendered a charge for this service. These are worth hundreds of thousands today, whereas he would ask $15 to $25 for a custom knife.


He led a solitary lifestyle for most of his nearly 90 years of life. No photographs of him are known to exist, and only one painting (see it below). Beyond his avoidance of the utility company, he had a fear of doctors. He allegedly performed surgery on himself to set his broken wrist and even extracted his own teeth and made his own dentures. Everything he needed, he made, and believed one should be self sufficient. He thought that health came from avoidance of complex modern systems including electricity and complicated foods, and was healthy into his late 80's, working every day long hours in his shop, with only hand equipment.


Many of the knives he made were sold through Abercrombie & Fitch in New York. The Smithsonian Institution purchased numerous Scagel knives, machetes, and other chopping instruments to equip numerous scientific expeditions and explorations during the first half of the 20th century. Today, almost every hunting or fishing knife made in the world can be traced back to a pattern created by Scagel. An amusing story is that the Smithsonian considered Scagels utilitarian, and used them on expeditions to get other items of value, whereas a single Scagel knife in good condition today can auction for more than $40,000, and one of the few guns he decorated recently auctioned for $80,000!
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Double LOL! Thanks Joe! I'm completely aware of who Scagel was, that is why I was messing with Marc about it. You bit in good! You didn't answer the question though. Did Bo like em'?
 
I have to have all of these!!!

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Gollnick said:
I am reminded of a scene in a long-forgotten movie in which the hero is shown a table covered with cups and told, "One of these is the Holy Grail. If you choose the right one, then you will succeed. But if you choose the wrong one, you will die horribly!" Or some such thing. He looks them all over, many encrushed with gems, many of precious materials. He selects the smallest and plainest of the group. And he is pronounced correct!

The Holy Grail is not the Holy Grail because it is necessarily the fanciest or most ornate. It has value beyond any material cost because of its history! That is real value which can not be duplicated. That King Tut Dagger is exquisite, no doubt. But, if nobody has already then someday some man will make something better.

The Sandbar Bowie, on the other had, is likely -- if it is ever found -- a remarkably plain knife. And yet its value would well exceed that dagger because its value comes from history which can never be repeated.
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Well said. BTW, that line is from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade.

n2s
 
The Holy Grail of knife collecting, for me, is knowledge. I have owned, played with, and traded off hundreds of knives; and, while there are many knives that I have sought and chased for years, as I grow older, it is harder to name a single knife that I would hold above all others. I have come to realize that very few knives have actually let me down, and that the knife I have enjoyed the most, was which ever one happened to be at hand when I needed and wanted to use one.

Of course, some need not be put to use at all, they have intrinsic value in and of themselves; for instance, those older knives, that serve as miniature windows to distant places separated from us by time, distance, or culture. But, these are more historical artifact then true functional knives; would anyone care, were you lucky enough to acquire Jim Bowie's famous knife, how well it cut, chopped, held an edge, or even whether it could be used to spread butter? Others, by virtue of their composition or execution, are simply works of art; scupltures that happen to have a knife-like shape.

Knives represent a very simple proposition. We can learn to enjoy them all without falling victim to the latest hype or fad.


n2s
 
This would be one of my my dream knives
 

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For me there isn't a single grail folder - or if there is, I haven't seen it yet.
But I am always looking for folders that combine a number of properties. All my folders have some of those properties, none have all of them.
So a grail folder would be the perfect folder, but like I said, I'm not sure it exists, or is even technically feasible. But with folders at least I'm still looking, trying, buying. At the moment my next goal is a non-flipper XM-18 3.5" After that, I don't yet know.

Fixed blades are easier. I have many very good fixed blades in all weight and size categories. The only thing that would make me buy another one would be if one was made with a 'perfect' steel - super edge holding, super toughness, superhardness, super rust resistance, etc. It would have to be significantly better than what I've got already, and that isn't too likely.
 
Kaizen1 said:
Ikoma Harrier
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Good grief! That is one of the best looking knives I've ever seen. And I thought he just fiddled around with pivot bearings...:foot:

My grail knife would be something with a 5" wharncliffe CPM-S110V blade, non-AO flipper opening (maybe with IKBS for fun), solid 1/4" thick pivot and thumbstuds, which would also double as the stop pin, and an integral Compression Lock in a Ti handle with partial Carbon Fiber scales.
 
My Grail knives that are current are the Scott Cook Lochsa and the Ichoma Angel. There are several old Randalls that also fix the bill.There are so many custom "grail" knives that I cant list them all: Kressler, Loveless, Moran to name a few big ones. Then there's Rodrigo Sfreddo whose Ophyochus simply blew me away and I would consider one of his knives grail knives.

I LOVE old EK knives and they are a passion for me. Very old EK knives are my grail knives. I have some older ones and many post Miami versions but I'd love to get my hands on many more.
 
My FB 'Holey Grail' was the Buck 120 & 124 models - in the BR, or brass and rosewood, format. I finally got a 120BR - it resides on a 5X stand with the 102, 103, 105, and 119, all BR's, which I already had. I also dreamed of a Puma 'White Hunter', a knife I saw many years ago - and thought to be 'interesting'. My wife found me one at a show. The 124 remains as my only 'lusted for' fb.

Folders? I always wanted a Boker Tree Brand Classic, like my Dad had back in the 60's. A kind fellow here - from this forum - sent me what was to him just a much used one - but it was just like my Dad's old knife. Literally, it was as if he found his old one! It's in a display case most of the time here - with occasional carry - great knife - greater kindness by a forum-friend.

For years, I thought how nice a Buck 110 would be with a 'dress-up' blade and scales - and NS bolsters. Several years back, I discovered the Buck Custom Shop - and ordered a NS bolster, flaming Koa wood scales, and teardrp Damascus blade 110. What a beauty - and, at that time, affordable. Next was the Benchmade 630 Skirmish, which, when it first came out, looked like a pimp's blade with those colored holes. In my hand at a show, a used one was just right - except for the price. Ultimately, less than a year ago, I found a NIB one for a far better price - and that one is off my list. I am an easy dog to hunt with. I guess I almost have 'what I want' now - except for that Buck 124...

Stainz
 
This thread makes me happy. I thought I was the only yo-yo who sat around all day long and dreamt about knives he couldn't afford. :D
 
Sargent 666 said:
Did Bo like em'?
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My HG is a pre-war Bo Hunter with what he termed a "fancy handle" (Pinned Elk or Whitetail handle with a large number of fiber, metal and sometimes wood spacers). Unfortunately these are as rare as hen's teeth. I've seen quite a few more Scagels than late 30's / very early 40's Randalls. In late '43 he started making a few Hunters with the same leather handles that he was using for his fighters. The first of these early WWII Hunters still had a "Scagelesque" grind:

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Best,
 
ron mathews said:
My HG is a pre-war Bo Hunter with what he termed a "fancy handle" (Pinned Elk or Whitetail handle with a large number of fiber, metal and sometimes wood spacers). Unfortunately these are as rare as hen's teeth. I've seen quite a few more Scagels than late 30's / very early 40's Randalls. In late '43 he started making a few Hunters with the same leather handles that he was using for his fighters. The first of these early WWII Hunters still had a "Scagelesque" grind:

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Best,
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YOU GET MY VOTE!

Bill
 
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