The Knife Industry is Tacticool BS

The Logical One said:
Does a person who drive a car on city streets really need a 500hp sports car?
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No. I absolutely need 1,000whp.

In all seriousness though you're right, advertising tactics work. Even if most people won't do something, they enjoy knowing that they have the ability to. This applies to all products, especially knives. A guy with a folding sword likes knowing that he can probably cut through a log even if he never will. This is why I try to stick to knives I know I will be able to legitimately put to use, or have as a novelty item that can also cut things if it needs to, lol.
 
Alnamvet68 said:
Humility, humble pie, and never biting the hand that feeds you goes a long way in my way of thinking. Trashing the industry, or worse, trashing customers who put in for warranty claims (even though the warranty says "no questions asked") is no way to go through life. Some things are simply better left unsaid, even if you hate the business and marginalize your customer's intelligence.:rolleyes:
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Agreed.

I have loads of respect for Jeff Randall, especially in regards to his honesty.

That being said, IMO, there are times when it's best to leave things unsaid. It reminds me a bit of when the actor Shia LeBeouf (sp?) smack-talked a movie he co-starred in, the last Indiana Jones movie. He essentially said it was a stupid movie, and that Steven Spielberg messed up with it. He totally trashed the project. Now, IMO, the movie did suck, BUT...Shia LeBeouf (sp?) made literally millions of dollars for his "stupid role" in that "sucky movie". More money than most people will ever see in a lifetime. When so many who have worked much harder for much longer have lost their homes to foreclosure, or are struggling just to make ends meet. If I were an actor who took such a role and benefited so well financially and/or otherwise from it, there is no way I would talk smack about it publicly. Now, Jeff Randall is a way different person to Shia LeBeouf, but I think my point is clear.

And what is tactical? To many, a simple Spyderco folder is 'tactical'. I like all kinds of quality knives...moderns, traditionals, SAKs, etc. I grew up carrying traditionals and SAKs, back when almost every boy carried some type of pocketknife. I also always carry a Spyderco every day. I don't care for the super-duper 'SEAL de-animation' types of knives, but I guess to each their own. Let's be thankful we have a thriving knife industry and the right to make choices of what we like and choose to buy. The alternative could be to NOT have a knife industry at all.

Jim
 
knife to a gunfight said:
I would tend to agree with the "BS" statement.... to an extent. Take many of the offerings from a company like Schrade for instance. Sure, they have their fair share of practical, more "traditional" looking knives, but then that have something like this:
Schrade-SCHA3CBS.jpg

which would clearly appeal more to the "mall ninja" crowd, and not to someone who's actually looking for a daily user.

I would say it even goes well beyond "looks", when you get into knives in the $20 and under range. You can't tell me that many of these knives are actually made to "use", considering the steel is such that the edges last for only one or two cuts, and after any use is applied to the knife, the thing is all but falling apart.
Yet these are the knives that sell by the hundreds at knife and gun shows, because the price was right, and the knife was halfway visually appealing.

Nobody buys a knife thinking "hey, this will probably fold up on my fingers the first time I use it, and I'll have to sharpen it every 5 minutes to cut anything at all with it!", but unfortunately, that's a little closer to reality when it comes to a lot of the knives that are out there in the market (and pockets) today.
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Good lord! Is that even a real thing?? Please tell me you just made that in Photoshop using a transformers toy!
 
Surfingringo said:
Good lord! Is that even a real thing?? Please tell me you just made that in Photoshop using a transformers toy!
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Actually, if I'm not mistaken, I believe Cutlerylover recently posted a review of two Schrades, one of which resembled that very atrocity.

Spoiler alert:

It got a less than favorable review.
 
n7titan said:
This one? EK Commando Model 5
EKCommandomodel5.jpg

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/printpost.php?tid/680482/
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I've got a sterile version of the model 5 combat bowie, I took off the paracord and made a set of oak scales for it, this is the minimalist version of a great all-around fixed blade knife. I would and have depended on it to get me outta more jams than I can remember. It's a perfect compromise woods knife/camp knife capable of 90% of the tasks I need to do with a knife.
 
Franciscomv said:
Interesting interview, I enjoyed reading it and I think what he says has to be taken within a certain context. He's discussing survival knives, focusing on usefulness alone and not talking to a knife collector. Some of his answers on things like steel types would be quite discouraging coming from the head of a different company, imagine somebody from ZT saying "We're not interested in trying any new steels, ever".

What I can't understand is why some people think that buying something you don't desperately need is somehow wrong. As long as it's not an obsession that ruins your life, buy whatever you enjoy and practicality be damned. I like nice fountain pens and good leather bound notebooks with high quality paper, a regular note pad and some Bic biros would be much more cost effective but I wouldn't enjoy using them at all.

I also grew up at a ranch, training horses and used fixed blades only, folders where considered little toys (traditional knives in my country are large fixed blades). When I was younger I thought all those modern one hand opening knives with weird blade shapes and synthetic handles were crap that armchair commandos thought they needed. Turns out not everybody has the same needs, nowadays I find myself carrying a modern folder clipped to my pocket more often than a fixed blade.

Most knife companies offer practical designs as well as others that are more of a niche product, either because they are aimed at a very particular group of people or feature something that might make them collectible (fancy materials, new locks, etc.). I used to limit my knife buying to stuff I had a genuine need for, but after a while I begun adding knives to my collection just because they were just fun. A 4" drop point fixed blade will do almost everything I need, but having a few hundred identical knives would be rather boring.
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The steel debate is something that he has a degree of realism too. He and others test all the knives in a harsh environment before they turn into productions. I doubt there very few companies that will do the same. The steel fetish that the industry is in right now is a bit ridiculous. And he's right, nowadays the bigger trick lies in the heat treat.
Now his, decision to go with 440c for his stainless line was kind of interesting, but he strikes me as a guy who wouldn't even bother trying new steels that are proven to be a step up. I know there are a few high end production companies that still use 440 over 154cm or s30v, but that more the exception.
 
That article makes me not really like Jeff Randall. Does he really need to put down everyone else? Just because he has a very narrow opinion of what a knife should be and what it should be used for. Sounds like he is trying to prove how cool he is because he uses knives in a jungle environment more than most people. So people that work in offices are BS and their knives are BS? If you open boxes and envelopes with knives then you are BS? Variety is the spice of life. I wonder why ESEE sells so many models if all he needs is a simple cheap carbon steel machete? For someone that owns a knife company, he sure does talk a lot of crap about knife fans and other manufacturers. You may praise him for being "honest" but I just think he is disrespectful and full of himself.

Let me add that I'm not defending the average person that uses a knife for letter opening because I am one. Quite the opposite. I do manual labor and use my knives hard every day. I think that whole "tacticool" label is often times over used. Just because a knife is all black doesn't mean it doesn't work just as well as another knife. It sounds like the same people that say an "assault weapon" is more dangerous than a hunting rifle. Some people really need to get over themselves.
 
Knives apply to both extremes of Maslow's hierarchy of needs pyramid. If you want to live like a king, a knife with gold inlay and gems might be a need. If all we are talking about is the basic need to cut something, and we are disregarding social and personal needs, then the lid of a can of beans might be all we really "need."
 
*NOTE* I totally agree on the "Tacticool" label being used for abuse and being used so much it's an abused term. Nothing wrong with Esee, but Tantos and other designs simply aren't BS a lot of the time (granted they get ripped off and get turned into BS)

Personally, your tools are your choice, if a guy wants to survive in the jungle with a Parang, so be it. If he wants to do it with a more "latin" machete, so be it. It's your choice, your preference and frankly, I don't care! If it suits them and it works for them that's what matters.
 
^^^exactly. We are all part of this awesome community. Why the hate Jeff Randall? We don't all have to have the same taste.
 
I really don't see anything wrong with what he said. To me it just read like an honest man being honest... *shrugs* I still like ESEE knives and think Jeff is a great guy.
 
sgt244 said:
I don't understand why you have nearly 300 posts on this forum if you think that...

However I'll straight up disagree with that quote, in the sense that I buy my knives (Chris Reeve) to be exact... because I "love" their design... plain and simple...

Everything about the 21 in particular just speaks to me... It's the 1 knife I'd keep over all others, even the striders and hinderers Ive owned in the past don't compare...

However, at the end of the day while talking about a knife that costs $350-$600, you could also be having the same conversation about anything else... just as a watch... or a pair of sneakers... or even your car.... "do you need a $1,000 watch?"... when a $5 watch would also keep time?.... "do you really need the new "jordans", that cost $350?" ..... do you really need that new sports car that costs $75,000 when a used $10,000 car would get you to where you need to go...?"


At the end of the day, it's all about "wants"... no 1 truly "NEEDS" a $600 knife... no 1 truly "NEEDS" a watch that costs $1,000 ... and no 1 "NEEDS" shoes that costs $350 or a sports car that costs $75 grand.... but this is MERICA and if we want it.... who is any1 to tell us not to get it...?

Remember YOLO... you really do only live once... why not enjoy your time here while you have it? rather than waste your time on this earth worrying about how much an object costs... you might save your money your whole life and one day (god forbid) you may not be here to enjoy it before you have decided you have enough saved up...

---- > just my thoughts on the subject....

... lastly.... lifes too short to carry a cheap knife!!!! ;)
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Lol amen brother.....the flex in that cheap 1 will get you cut!
 
Jeff Randall sure makes some sweeping generalizations about the entire knife industry that appear to be based mostly on his small corner of it. I don't agree with his view or his conclusions, particularly the conflicting nature of these two statements:

"JR: I'm not qualified to even speak about combat knives since I know a little less than zero about knife fighting or combat skills."

"JR: In all honesty, the knife industry is about 99 percent [censored].... All these new weird shapes and designs that keep coming out are made just to have something new and 'tacticool.' Most companies refuse to speak the truth and just say, 'the reason we designed this is because some mall ninja would think it's cool and spend money on it.'"

So you don't know anything about the combative use of the knife, but you have no problem pronouncing tactical designs worthless? Seems to me Jeff Randall is stepping a little out of his lane, and I find it curious that so many are quick to agree with him.

I contend that a soldier conducting room clears in Afghanistan or a police officer fighting to retain his handgun might have a slightly different view of what he needs in a knife than a guy butchering a rabbit in Alabama. Necessity is indeed the mother of invention, and many of the improvements and/or new ideas that arise in the knife industry do so because someone, somewhere, thought that such changes might make his life a little easier or safer. It's ridiculous to deride all tactical designs simply because many of the people who buy them won't use them in that capacity. Some people will use them as intended, and those are the ones for whom the knife was built.

Also, just my two cents, but I'm extremely tired of seeing the labels "tacticool" and "mall ninja" applied to products and people by those who have only had to use their knives to open envelopes or gather campfire wood and refuse to envision a scenario for knife use outside of their own limited experiences. There are no certainties in life. Tomorrow may not bring the same situations that you faced yesterday. And while I hope that you never need to cut anything that a SAK can't handle, I don't recommend that you stake your life on the premise that you won't.

-Steve
 
^^ I think you're right to some extent. Jeff has just been spending too much time in the amazon to know anything besides survival knives of the most basic nature. I think if you adjusted his statement to "75% of the knife industry is tacticool BS" then you would be closer to the truth.

It's actually a shame that he refuses to try any newer supersteels. Knowing the magic he can work with plain old 1095, I would LOVE to see what he could to with something like m390 or 3V. Imagine an ESEE 3 or 4 in one of those steels......:thumbup:
 
It's also funny that he says his knives are no better than any other companies knives. Then he criticizes 99% of the knife industry. So all these other knife makers are BS yet they make knives as good as or better than ESEE.
 
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