The Knife Industry is Tacticool BS

"In all honesty, the knife industry is about 99 percent bullshit. We sell knives every day to people who will never use them. Knife buying is more of a want than a need."

Selling a 10.5" 1095 "Venom Green" knife at a list price at $320 is as pure as bullshit gets.

Everyone's got an equal chance to be wrong in our attempt to solve everyday design problems.
 
Last edited:
What's the difference?

The difference is that one is grounded in a real appreciation, and the the other contributes to the adoption of the same poor design elements that we keep seeing.

I like skulls on stuff. I must be of the common types then. The fact that the human skull is one of the most interesting and beautiful natural geometries is seemingly not appreciated by the more sophisticated specimens of our species of which I am then not one.

Stereotypes ....

There are excellent tactical knives out there and the schmuckatelli skulls are great.

Al Mar, Eric Tullis, Sal Glesser, ... all mall ninja nutcases? Direware = tacticool BS? SERE 2000 = tacticool BS?

When I see comments like those made by Mr Randall I see bitterness and resentment and not a level headed person stating truth.

I apologize if my lack of appreciation for skulls offended you, but to be sure the majority of people who want skulls want them because they're masculine and tough looking, because they look threatening and "intimidating" (much like tactical knives?) but who are they trying to intimidate? Skulls are definitely an overused design element.

I sincerely doubt that a majority of direware knives will even go to people who will carry them :D so yes, tacticool BS. Is it well put together? Probably. But it is ABSOLUTELY preying on the market's current fascination with titanium tactical framelocks. After it is purchased, it will just go to tactically protect people from tactical threats in its tactical location in a tactical chest or safe ;) and tactical knives are unique in this.

Other highly expensive safe queens aren't designed for stabbing people. They are very honest. They are meant to be owned and appreciated and occasionally used. When will high-dollar "tactical" designs EVER be used tactically?

The Schrade depicted above does not cut any more or less effectively simply because of its appearance.

I disagree. That's a pretty strong statement. You're telling me that the tanto geometry isn't over utilized? It absolutely is. It is not a useful geometry for 99% of applications, and people need to stop pretending it is. You're going to tell me that the ergonomics of that handle contribute to a strong, efficient overall design?

Nonsense.

1) Gun costs can be prohibitive.
2) Many guns are not intuitive and require practice to use.
3) Guns are extraordinarily regulated/restricted in many areas, and entirely outlawed in others.
4) People have been using knives as weapons from time immemorial.
5) Familiarize yourself with the Tueller Drill before you assume that a gun will save you.

Yes, a gun requires a lot of attention. So does a knife. A knife requires much more training to be effective for personal protection than a firearm. And if we're honest, the majority of the people who can afford a tactical microtech, benchmade, ZT, or emerson can afford a turkish made handgun. Heck, most of those people already own firearms. Despite how "cool" (?) protecting yourself with a knife looks in the movies (which you mention) it isn't a good defensive weapon.

And acknowledging that a knife can be used as a weapon sullies the reputation of knife owners? No, Hollywood sullies the public perception of knife owners. Very seldom are knives depicted in a good light in movies, television shows, or books.

And knife people rush to love the same knives that get attention in those movies. Just look at all the threads on here about which knives show up in which movies and TV shows.

Actually, those comments were penned by James Keating, and he was addressing a specific design element of certain tactical knives, not tactical knives as a whole. Lynn Thompson's assessments of the double-edged dagger in the follow-on article were similarly specific to design limitations. Both Keating and Thompson know more than a little about knife use in the real world. Their experiences certainly qualify them to make observations about knife attributes, at least as much as those of Jeff Randall (if not more so, considering that they've been in the knife industry much longer than Randall has).



You don't have to get it. If it's not your thing, so be it. But please don't deride those who enjoy tactical knives. Likewise, please don't join the throngs of those who paint tactical knife owners as wannabes or children. I assure you that I am neither.



Different knives are different things to different people. Every knife, like every person, is unique. There's room aplenty in the knife marketplace for various tastes, needs, wants, and ideas. I, for one, am glad that such freedom exists in the knife industry, as it holds my interest in a hobby that's been a lifelong fixation.

-Steve

I apologize, the article clearly states the author, but the page says "By Lynn C. Thompson", thank you for the clarification. That said, the article also addresses the hype surrounding "chisel ground" knives, and his first couple of paragraphs talk about what is "cool" driving the knife industry. This is the pot calling the kettle black though, his company makes an awful lot of weird, medieval period weapons to deride other products as being "fantasy" (REALLY? A war hammer?) There IS, however, quite a lot of room for different designs in the knife market. I can't help but feel that YES, the market is driven by consumers, but as informed consumers, we have to educate people on what contributes to a useable design versus hype, and thus influence the market. But ISN'T the market for tactical blades largely wannabes? How often do you need to stab somebody? How often is a knife a better tool for defense than a gun? Why are YOU not a wannabe? Or a poser? Now, I don't mean this as a personal attack, certainly, but it seems that if 99% of people answer this question honestly, tacticool knives would be a niche thing, instead of the driving force in the market. You have every right to WANT to carry a tactical knife, I just think you're probably wrong. Of course, I could be way off base :D you could be LEO, or a military contractor. If so, please do correct me. I wonder if we couldn't get someone who is LEO or military to chime in, what they think.
 
D-Rock, the majority of your points are made based on sweeping generalizations you're making. Please stop trying to speak for the knife community at large. I simply don't have the time (nor the concern, really) to respond to each of the poorly made points you've given, but rest assured that making blanket statements like: "You're telling me that the tanto geometry isn't over utilized? It absolutely is. It is not a useful geometry for 99% of applications" does little more than make you look tremendously uninformed and inexperienced in...well anything concerning knives or their use.

So, here's an idea. Enjoy what you enjoy, and stop trying to make dumb logically fallacious arguments against things that you personally don't enjoy or see a need for. We get enough of that from our politicians, thanks.
 
The knife industry, like all industries, survive by selling product. Selling product is about making it attractive to the potential buyer. The method of making product attractive is called "marketing".

In other words, BS.














I have no problem with any of this.
 
Why do we love knives? Is it for the expression of utility and craftsmanship and materials science they represent? OR, are they glorified toys?
What's the difference?

The difference is that one is grounded in a real appreciation, and the the other contributes to the adoption of the same poor design elements that we keep seeing.

I wuz just trying to be funny. My toys are expressions of utility and craftmanship and materials science. Big boys toys.
 
The knife industry, like all industries, survive by selling product. Selling product is about making it attractive to the potential buyer. The method of making product attractive is called "marketing".

In other words, BS.

I have no problem with any of this.

Nicely put. Although I may have a problem with some of it.
 
Yep, its all what sells. In our local Church of Testosterone-Based Mass- Consumerism, the "SpydEmersoBenchZeroColdLionSteel Model BS714a, with the assisted-opening tanto based superblade, complete with pink Diamond-like-coating (laser etched with "Hello Kitty" heads,) a peach-colored G10 scale with unicorn-Pegasus scrimshaw, and the rainbow anodized Titanium framelock, bedazzeled Hinderererer stabilizer and mauve-colored paracord lanyard, decked with charm bracelet beads and soap bubble blowing loops, doesn't really jump off the shelves. I want one, but I can't afford it after buying my red, heart-shaped e-tool with collapsing candy-cane handle.
 
There is some BS to a degree but that varies with personal knowledge/taste/budget etc. for example "tactical" while often used way too liberally still means something but to me combined with the word "folder" it makes absolutely no sense at all (I stress "to me"). Regardless, saying that the industry is X% BS is directly saying that X% of the target consumers in that market are equally full of it as it is the consumer that ultimately dictates the market.

Personally I look at it this way: there is stuff you buy knowing quite well that you are overpaying but buy it for what it is to you regardless of the marketing BS behind it because you a) want it and b) can afford it. That's just fine by me. Different strokes for different folks. There is however stuff you end up buying being deliberately misled into believing that it is what it actually isn't and that is unfortunately the fault of the consumer. People often forget that a manufacturer/retailer has one job and one job only - to make money and goes after the money using every legal means possible. This applies to every product sold in the world. To put it simply: it will be produced, marketed and sold as long as it can generate a profit margin. Why do you think Invicta continues to produce crap watches? Because there are still those who buy them. Want to see real BS? Just look at their marketing, especially the shopping network sales. Would BG ever take one of his "pro" knives with him? Nope. Can he make money by having his name on it? Sure. What is surprising you? If you can sell something that you otherwise couldn't by slapping a celebrity name on it - why wouldn't you? Slapping "tactical" on crap is way cheaper and does the same job to an extent so why not? If you don't like it - don't buy it.
 
Last edited:
Yep, its all what sells. In our local Church of Testosterone-Based Mass- Consumerism, the "SpydEmersoBenchZeroColdLionSteel Model BS714a, with the assisted-opening tanto based superblade, complete with pink Diamond-like-coating (laser etched with "Hello Kitty" heads,) a peach-colored G10 scale with unicorn-Pegasus scrimshaw, and the rainbow anodized Titanium framelock, bedazzeled Hinderererer stabilizer and mauve-colored paracord lanyard, decked with charm bracelet beads and soap bubble blowing loops, doesn't really jump off the shelves. I want one, but I can't afford it after buying my red, heart-shaped e-tool with collapsing candy-cane handle.

Choked on my iced tea dude.....Hello Kitty. Lol.
 
D-Rock, the majority of your points are made based on sweeping generalizations you're making. Please stop trying to speak for the knife community at large. I simply don't have the time (nor the concern, really) to respond to each of the poorly made points you've given, but rest assured that making blanket statements like: "You're telling me that the tanto geometry isn't over utilized? It absolutely is. It is not a useful geometry for 99% of applications" does little more than make you look tremendously uninformed and inexperienced in...well anything concerning knives or their use.

So, here's an idea. Enjoy what you enjoy, and stop trying to make dumb logically fallacious arguments against things that you personally don't enjoy or see a need for. We get enough of that from our politicians, thanks.

I'm calling BS. Are they generalizations? Yes. Are they incorrect? Probably not. You've told me I "look tremendously uninformed and inexperienced" but not addressed the arguments I made, because you can't. Tanto knives are simply not ideal for general use. They are not a practical design. They (americanized tantos, IE the schrade) don't have a belly, which means than in a lot of slicing uses; the secondary tip that replaces the belly must be relied upon, reducing the usable amount of edge. The vast majority of americanized tantos aren't even executed in such a way as to strengthen the tip, as I understand it. NOBODY (yourself included) thus far has given a real argument for why tactical knives deserve such a large share of the market, beyond "I like 'em so don't make fun of me".
 
I'm calling BS. Are they generalizations? Yes. Are they incorrect? Probably not. You've told me I "look tremendously uninformed and inexperienced" but not addressed the arguments I made, because you can't. Tanto knives are simply not ideal for general use. They are not a practical design. They (americanized tantos, IE the schrade) don't have a belly, which means than in a lot of slicing uses; the secondary tip that replaces the belly must be relied upon, reducing the usable amount of edge. The vast majority of americanized tantos aren't even executed in such a way as to strengthen the tip, as I understand it. NOBODY (yourself included) thus far has given a real argument for why tactical knives deserve such a large share of the market, beyond "I like 'em so don't make fun of me".

The answer to your question: market share for most part is determined by the market which means that people buy it. Regardless of how you feel, regardless of what you know or say, regardless of what I and everyone else thinks or says here - people buy it. That's what a trend is. This will end when people no longer buy the product/style/whatnot. It's that simple. Tbh I don't even understand what is being debated here. Why do you care actually? Why would anyone care? It's your money and if anything you have plenty of products to choose from so spend your money on whatever it is that floats your boat. I don't know about you but I like variety, I like having a choice and I believe in competition breeding a better product. Manufacturers compete for your money and will try absolutely everything they can to get it. Ultimately that gives us amazing products.
 
The answer to your question: market share for most part is determined by the market which means that people buy it. Regardless of how you feel, regardless of what you know or say, regardless of what I and everyone else thinks or says here - people buy it. That's what a trend is. This will end when people no longer buy the product/style/whatnot. It's that simple. Tbh I don't even understand what is being debated here. Why do you care actually? Why would anyone care? It's your money and if anything you have plenty of products to choose from so spend your money on whatever it is that floats your boat. I don't know about you but I like variety, I like having a choice and I believe in competition breeding a better product. Manufacturers compete for your money and will try absolutely everything they can to get it. Ultimately that gives us amazing products.


A huge +1. Well said. :thumbup:
 
Got an old Nokia. People at work call it my Flintstones phone. I've dropped it and had it come apart into it's circuit boards, case and battery three times. Snapped it back together and went on.

I love my Flip phone as well. I only text with my wife because she is a school teacher and it's best to just send notes while she's at the school. Mine has had to be snapped back together a lot more times than that. Still works fine. I like things that work without skulls on them. LOL
 
I'm calling BS. Are they generalizations? Yes. Are they incorrect? Probably not. You've told me I "look tremendously uninformed and inexperienced" but not addressed the arguments I made, because you can't. Tanto knives are simply not ideal for general use. They are not a practical design. They (americanized tantos, IE the schrade) don't have a belly, which means than in a lot of slicing uses; the secondary tip that replaces the belly must be relied upon, reducing the usable amount of edge. The vast majority of americanized tantos aren't even executed in such a way as to strengthen the tip, as I understand it. NOBODY (yourself included) thus far has given a real argument for why tactical knives deserve such a large share of the market, beyond "I like 'em so don't make fun of me".

Your response here continues to uphold my initial assertion. You keep saying "I call BS!" as though you have some authority that allows you to make a factual argument. Hint: you don't. So, in the end, you only end up looking immature and like all others who use bad logic in order to state "What I like is awesome, what I don't like is dumb!" when there's nothing objective or factual about such an assertion. However, if you think you're an authority, more power to you. :thumbup:

Edit:

Despite being a young person

Ahhhhh....it's making a lot more sense. I thought I knew everything when I was younger also. LOL
 
The answer to your question: market share for most part is determined by the market which means that people buy it. Regardless of how you feel, regardless of what you know or say, regardless of what I and everyone else thinks or says here - people buy it. That's what a trend is. This will end when people no longer buy the product/style/whatnot. It's that simple. Tbh I don't even understand what is being debated here. Why do you care actually? Why would anyone care? It's your money and if anything you have plenty of products to choose from so spend your money on whatever it is that floats your boat. I don't know about you but I like variety, I like having a choice and I believe in competition breeding a better product. Manufacturers compete for your money and will try absolutely everything they can to get it. Ultimately that gives us amazing products.

D, hope you took notes! Rounic, well said.
 
Humility, humble pie, and never biting the hand that feeds you goes a long way in my way of thinking. Trashing the industry, or worse, trashing customers who put in for warranty claims (even though the warranty says "no questions asked") is no way to go through life. Some things are simply better left unsaid, even if you hate the business and marginalize your customer's intelligence.:rolleyes:

I agree... but oddly enough, it works. That guy has sold more knives than I ever will and many of his fans border on being rabid about him, his designs, and his attitude.

On the other hand, there are also other designers and manufacturers who sell lots of (in fact a whole lot more) similar knives without the snottiness - or "tacticool BS" for that matter. So it's up to us to just vote with our wallets.
 
I'm calling BS. Are they generalizations? Yes. Are they incorrect? Probably not. You've told me I "look tremendously uninformed and inexperienced" but not addressed the arguments I made, because you can't. Tanto knives are simply not ideal for general use. They are not a practical design. They (americanized tantos, IE the schrade) don't have a belly, which means than in a lot of slicing uses; the secondary tip that replaces the belly must be relied upon, reducing the usable amount of edge. The vast majority of americanized tantos aren't even executed in such a way as to strengthen the tip, as I understand it. NOBODY (yourself included) thus far has given a real argument for why tactical knives deserve such a large share of the market, beyond "I like 'em so don't make fun of me".

Whilst your question was already answered better than I can, I guess a true "real argument" actually depends on what you define as tactical. It's saturated our market and means different things to different people.

Right now, my two favorites knives are a Case Sod Buster and an Ontario Utilitac (both utility and tactical all in one I guess) with, yep, a tanto tip.

Two radically different knives. One is definitely not tactical. The other arguably could be.

Both are very handy, useful tools.

Do I like tantos? They aren't my favorite blade shape by far, no, but I don't dismiss them.

Is a Cold Steel Voyager tactical? I don't know. But it's pretty dang useful, if it is. My Spyderco Endura is too, but again, I don't know what "tactical" means to you.

My argument would be: I don't necessarily prefer "tactical" over non-tactical knives and vice versa. But I have found several models that are effective working tools in both categories. I don't like them better, or worse. I enjoy them because yes, they are effective. Not necessarily BECAUSE they are tactical, but because, tactical or not tactical, they are well-made knives. And I'll take a well-made knife. If the most useful knife in the world was marketed as the Tactical Mega Darklight Anti-Matter Shredder and it really, truly WAS the most useful knife out there, I'd still get it. (Though I do chuckle at odd names.)

I am a young person also.
 
I would say that most of what Sal Glesser makes at Spyderco falls within the "tactical" category ... and I dare anyone who's owned and used one explain to me how a ParaMilitary 2 is a BS knife. Or the GB, or the Millie, or ...

I own (and have owned) many different knives and the PM2 remains one of my favourites. I will never be without at least one PM2 and I recommend it to anyone asking me for the best bang for his buck knife purchase.

As for Direware ... jeepers ... how can anyone dispute the quality and beauty of Eric's creations? I don't own one (yet) as I cannot afford one but I really want one (at the very top of my wish-list) and it is not because the Solo V4 is a "tacticool" that I want one ... I want it because I appreciate beauty and good design and I'm sure those who do own them can easily prove that Direwares can get the job done.

Those that dismiss tactical knives as BS dismisses some of the best talents in knife making history.
 
Back
Top