The knife market bubble needs to happen

Every year this is discussed.

Remember this time last year when Spyderco changed their MAP and increased prices as well? Even die hard fans went bonkers. Fast forward a couple of months and the same fanboys are lining up for new releases and Sprints. Same the year before with Benchmade.

Also, we BFers are an incredibly small piece of the overall market. If a regular Joe walks into a knife store and wants a certain brand of knife and it is now $200 (vs. say $180 last year), the buyer likely leaves with that knife.

This happens every year with guitars, flashlights, watches, etc.

I rarely spend over $200 on a knive and generally around $100. My last two purchases were a Benchmade Freek (was cheaper than comparable knives) and a Spyderco Titanium Military as it was cheaper than any other 4” knife in Titanium I could find. I definately comparison shop and any brand that is priced substantially higher than their direct competitors just falls off my radar.

A knife is only overpriced if it doesn’t sell IMO.
 
Its called a free market system it works and their is plenty of competition for your knife dollars. They charge what the market will bear no more no less. If you can't or don't want to pay their asking price go find a used one cheaper or go without. Maybe you need to look at yourself if your retired and can't afford a $100.00 knife. I wanted a $75,000.00 Ford Raptor F-150 pickup I couldn't afford one I didn't blame Ford as there are plenty of folks buying them. I bought a used one I could afford. I didn't hope for a bubble or ask them to lower their price.
 
Consumers who buy by price point have killed more companies than bad management. The internet has flattened prices on everything, and if a company can sell it's product and stay in business then that's how they have to work. There are a lot of very marginal companies operating these days, and with interest rates going up and credit becoming harder to maintain a lot of the zombies who have been just barely making it on free money are going to fold. Fewer producers will only increase prices unless they can increase production and that would have to be done at a greater cost. Probably not going to happen.

What you should be fighting is the failure of income to keep pace with the cost of major assets. When the average worker gets year over year "raises" in salary that don't keep up with true inflation and or the true cost of living (as has happened in the past two decades) we get a increase in the poverty rate and a marginalizing of the middle class. Increased social programs cannot resolve this issues (no matter how many politicians think so.) they working taxpayer has to be the one who's wealth increases (or at least stays equal to) in order to maintain the cost of CURRENT social programs. When this fails to happen and gov't spending increases countries (and businesses) go bankrupt.
 
the sad part is all money is fiat, these days the inflation on the 'back end' (gov't) is insane. They print money easier than if it grows on trees. If it grew on trees, there would be limits of time at least. These days, the big gov'ts all just print more (... not even that, as 99% of all money no longer even has paper bills to represent it, it's all digital, everywhere.

The end result is 'stable' gov'ts like the west, and europe, get away with quantitative easing and as long as they do it together, no one see's inflation. Only unstable places like Venezuela get really hit by inflation. But it's happening, in the back end... when the musical chairs stop, it's going to get ugly really fast. I hope they figure out a way to ensure it doesn't hit the fan.

If you actually look at total world/nation money supply, you'd be shocked.
I'm honestly shocked inflation has been kept to around 2% in recent history.

The zeitgeist 'movement' tries to comprehend it, but they sadly end up sounding too much like 'conspiracy theory'... I don't think it's so much a conspiracy, so much as evolution & path of least resistance applied over many centuries. Knife prices are the least of my concern : )
 
Bladegunner said:
I wanted a $75,000.00 Ford Raptor F-150 pickup I couldn't afford one I didn't blame Ford as there are plenty of folks buying them. I bought a used one I could afford. I didn't hope for a bubble or ask them to lower their price.
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I do like that Raptor, I'm sure I'd enjoy owning one. I can afford one, but I won't pay their asking price.

I don't blame Ford either, and am not holding out for a "bubble" or coupon in the newspaper. I'm fine with not having one.

Same with knives. I can afford some, yet won't pay the asking price some MFRs are asking.

But there are plenty of folks who will, so I don't see a bubble popping any time soon.
 
What is interesting that at no point in this conversation has the word 'need' been mentioned. It's a marketplace of desire not need. Most people don't really need much more than a SAK Classic. I have no idea how that effects the argument but I'm sure it has to be a relevant factor.
 
Pomsbz said:
What is interesting that at no point in this conversation has the word 'need' been mentioned. It's a marketplace of desire not need. Most people don't really need much more than a SAK Classic. I have no idea how that effects the argument but I'm sure it has to be a relevant factor.
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Very true but want vs need doesn’t apply to most people that frequent this forum. ;)

I used a $25 S&W Homeland Security machete in the woods for years. Still have it and it is a bit beat up but works just fine. Did I NEED a few $100+ ESEEs? Absolutely not. I WANTED them. It is hard to argue that the ESEEs (or Busse, Bradford, etc.) aren’t better knives than the S&W, but I wouldn’t be able to win any Cost vs. Performance argument.
 
jmh33 said:
I kills me that there are those out there beating their chests defending price increases/inflation because "That's the way its always been" :rolleyes:!! I like more money in my pocket NOT less..:D Fair prices.. Not bend over and smile!!!o_O
John
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Nobody is beating their chest about it, were just talking about it. I don't like it. But there's nothing I can do about it. I do other things to pay for my knife hobby.
If you like more money in your pocket don't spend it. :)
 
You can get a decent knife for $25 these days that blows away what $25 would have bought you 10 years ago (CRKT Pilar is a good example of this). And every $10 you go up from there the knives just get better and better... to a point at least.

What’s bubbly about that? I think over $100 is stupid money for a knife, so I buy lower priced things or buy used. Don’t like Spyderco’s pricing? Don’t buy them. I’ve never though Benchmade’s prices made sense so I don’t own any.

But as far as the bubble... I do think that automation could enable a large downswing in pricing, especially for USA manufacturers. Paying Americans to make knives doesn’t do good things for prices. There’s very little that couldn’t be fully automated in the knife making process.
 
jmh33 said:
I kills me that there are those out there beating their chests defending price increases/inflation because "That's the way its always been" :rolleyes:!! I like more money in my pocket NOT less..:D Fair prices.. Not bend over and smile!!!o_O
John
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You ought to read about how fiat money, central banks, and money supply inflation work. If you want to see a world of gently lowering prices, the only time it has happened on a large scale was during the international gold standard, because you can’t dig up gold as fast as you can print paper. I’d love to go back to gold.

Market participants respond to the world around them. When the monetary standard rewarded lowering prices, manufacturers did that. When it rewarded increasing prices, they did that.

Everyone, manufacturers included, likes to see more money in their pocket. I’ve never understood why that makes a customer frugal but a manufacturer greedy.
 
Part of what drives high end collecting of knives or anything else is exclusivity and elitism . A chance to exercise monetary muscle and display wealth .

So , for some , ridiculously high prices are actually desirable ! :eek:
 
I don't think the bulk of the younger generation (say, 30 and under) are as "into" good knives (as opposed to ninja type knives for the quite young) and will be less likely to pay higher prices. Most just weren't raised in a culture of knife carrying or camping, two prime movers of knives. :( Time will tell. ;)
 
I am already out. These days I seem to only buy production knives on the secondary market, and they are usually below retail by enough to make it worth the while (light use if not new, no tax, shipped to my door).

I do look at retail, and I consider it, but then if I check out the usual haunts I seem to end up finding what I'm looking for, eventually, and I enjoy the hunt.
 
I don't think there is an actual bubble besides the natural ebb and flow of a demand economy, but what I think has hurt some people who have been waiting to buy a new knife is inflation. The price goes up but the value of what you afford earlier is not the same value you can afford now. Money does not go as far as it used too, and companies need to charge more for increase in materials. That being said, I think doing research and checking out the secondary market (the exchange here for example) is a way to find good bargains and models that may have been discontinued.
 
DocJD said:
Part of what drives high end collecting of knives or anything else is exclusivity and elitism . A chance to exercise monetary muscle and display wealth .

So , for some , ridiculously high prices are actually desirable ! :eek:
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To me that is funny.

I get wearing a Rolex or Patek watch or driving a Porsche, but who beyond these boards or on Instagram really cares what knife you carry? I have never once had anyone impressed with a knife I was carrying beyond saying it was cool looking.
 
katanas said:
I don't think the bulk of the younger generation (say, 30 and under) are as "into" good knives (as opposed to ninja type knives for the quite young) and will be less likely to pay higher prices. Most just weren't raised in a culture of knife carrying or camping, two prime movers of knives. :( Time will tell. ;)
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Start of a good philosophical discussion there.

It's not only that they weren't raised in a culture of knife carrying or camping. Now that knives are verboten as "weapons" in school, they are being educated that knives are bad things at a young age.

We carried knives in school and scouts and such as youths, and this habit carried over into our adult years. It's not that we were "into" knives, it's simply that they were a part of our every day life as useful tools.

What difference will the two mindsets make in the future cutlery marketplace? Time will indeed tell.
 
I can attest to the fact that many folks in the younger generation actually ARE interested in knives. They just have a different perspective with it all. That can't all be neatly summarized into a particular set of descriptive terms, but suffice to say that if I was marketing to the under-30 crowd vs. the over-30 crowd I'd take drastically different approaches. Both of them still practical in focus, and without the need for showmanship or snake oil tactics, but simply different emphasis on design features/benefits.
 
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