The Price of a Name, and Diminishing Returns

[Shorttime]

I need opinions!


The context:
Lots of things go into the price of a knife. Some of those costs are what they are, some of those costs are at the discretion of the maker.

Somewhere along the way, the cost of a knife becomes more about what people are willing to pay, rather than any difference in materials, fit, heat treat, or after-purchase support.


The question:
Where, in your opinion, does that happen?

 

[K.O.D.]

Depends on the brand. Some people will buy a Benchmade no matter what they charge, they have that kind of name power.

 

[ferider]

It depends.

There are still some great makers operating/selling with a fixed margin.

For the others - I'm an engineer. We usually blame marketing

 

[Danke42]

For regular production knives I don't think so. There is a huge selection at different price levels.

As soon as you hit mid techs and customs and that sort of Instagram clout stuff there's no doubt that some names that command huge prices with ridiculous blades that would be tossed in the trash if they didn't have one of those names.

$995 for some kydex a shoelace and a 1.25" edge.

 

[sharp_edge]

The knife in the above post is won't pay $50for it doesn't matter who is the maker and don't care.

Back to the op topic. The name of the maker is important to me, but the same is the materials, ht, and aesthetics. The country of the origin is also important to me as I have to think about selling second hand.

 

[jeepin]

For regular production knives I don't think so. There is a huge selection at different price levels.

As soon as you hit mid techs and customs and that sort of Instagram clout stuff there's no doubt that some names that command huge prices with ridiculous blades that would be tossed in the trash if they didn't have one of those names.

$995 for some kydex a shoelace and a 1.25" edge.

I will NEVER understand the appeal of those butt ugly turds.

 

[LimpCroissant]

I think that's more a question of "when does a brand get popular enough to where they can charge extra, knowing that people will buy it and trust you anyway based on the name you've built". It definitely does happen. I try not to support that kind of thing, however I'm guilty as the next guy of buying it anyway every once in a while.

 

[Lee D]

Somewhere along the way, the cost of a knife becomes more about what people are willing to pay, rather than any difference in materials, fit, heat treat, or after-purchase support.


The question:
Where, in your opinion, does that happen?

When instagram becomes a factor.

 

[alan0354]

I am only talk about folding knives here.

I was about to post something related to this thread. I am very surprised to see knives are being treated like a designer handbag for women, Rolex watches type of STATUS item rather than a TOOL. Never have I even dream about like this before I join knife forums and read and find out the price of some of the knives.

I am NOT advocate in buying cheap knives, but to me, at $45 to $90 range, you can really get good knives. I am not even saying the cheaper ones are all bad. Case in point, I bought a S&W on sale on Amazon for $9.95 a month ago.

Direct link to amazon removed per guidelines

I actually did testing on blade hardness by hitting the spines of two knives against each other to compare who make a bigger scar. This $9.95 knife fair VERY WELL against more expensive brands(cheap in a lot of people's eyes here) like Kurbey, Steel Will etc. in $60 range.

I understand the comparison between a Kia car to Mercedes, that the Kia might be more reliable than Mercedes. BUT, the big difference between knives and other luxury items is People show off with designer handbags, Rolex watches by wearing it out in the open, it is like jewelries. You do NOT carry a knife out in open, you mostly conceal it. Even if it is legal, if you carry openly, 95% of the people will look at you strange rather than with admiration how expensive the knife is!! Hell, it's NOT that expensive even at $700!!!

To me, a knife is a TOOL, nothing more than a drill driver or circular saw that you do NOT carry openly to show off. I understand a high quality knife can cost like $100. BUT over $500 a knife? What can a $500 knife better in any way than a good $100 knife? What kind of steel use in the blade that make it so expensive?

Heat treat is NOT rocket science, I am sure people can automate the process to get as good a heat treat as any human can do. It's just programming the machine. Knife is such a LOW TECH item there's no secret about it, it's really really simple.

So why are people so into expensive knives? For me, I would not pay more than $100 for any folding knives. I bought close to 20 knives between $20 to $80. I do notice how bad some designs are. My conclusion is I have to buy it, open it to tell, test the blade hardness, not just read what kind of steel they advertise using. My most favorite knife under 3" is a CHEAP JSWS knife that was $16 when Amazon had 40% off. I look at the design, the hardness of the steel in real test. My favorite bigger knives are all Steel Will with Phosphorous Bronze washers all in $70 range. I would have gone to Cold Steel if they have flipper tap rather than thumb tap. Steel Will is about the only other one I like with PB washer.

Also I get into knives for self defense, I practice knife fight, striking on hanging heavy bags with rubber knife. There is a purpose for me. How many people actually use knife they carry other than open letters or boxes that you can do with a cheap box cutter? I do NOT use even my cheap knives to do that to preserve the edge. I use box cutter.

Important to note, I am NOT against spending a lot of money on items to show off. I am willing to buy Rolex watches, nice cars. I just cannot see spending money for a knife that I cannot show. $700 is nothing, but it's just not worth spending on a knife. Find something that can show better and spend more money.

JMHO

 

[5DoorEstate]

lol “JMHO”

Now go to a Corvette forum and really impress the geezers with pics of your red C6 convertible.

Just don’t get your feelings hurt if the Vacheron-Constantin forums aren’t impressed with a Rolex.

People buy stuff for a variety of reasons, believe it or not.

 

[MrStabby7]

Somewhere along the way, the cost of a knife becomes more about what people are willing to pay,

This is one of the first things you learn in finance. The value of something is simply what the next guy is willing to pay.

In the knife world this probably happens most when a knife is no longer made. GEC knifes are a good example. They sell for like $120-$175 bucks but as soon as the run is over your will find them on Ebay for $300+

 

[alan0354]

lol “JMHO”

Now go to a Corvette forum and really impress the geezers with pics of your red C6 convertible.

Just don’t get your feelings hurt if the Vacheron-Constantin forums aren’t impressed with a Rolex.

People buy stuff for a variety of reasons, believe it or not.

I don't have a Corvette. I know Rolex is NOT close to the top. But at least those are more eye catching and good for showing off.

I just cannot see about knife. I don't think they have a "cordless drill" forum to compare DeWalt vs Mikita vs Milwaukee which one is more expensive. They normally compare which one WORKS better, not the name and price. I am just surprised knife is like that.

I wonder how many members here actually using a knife for living or fighting where you really use it. I know for people living in the wild no man's land carry it and is useful, how many people live in those area vs living in the denser populated areas? There are so many fancy TACTICAL knives, but when I mentioned knife fighting, I didn't get the sense people here are into that!!! Carrying a tactical knife for show?

 

[eveled]

I only pay for performance. A tougher handle is worth paying extra for. A diamond embedded in the pommel not worth it.

Some expensive materials and embellishments actually hurt the performance or toughness of the knife. Total waste of money.

 

[alan0354]

I only pay for performance. A tougher handle is worth paying extra for. A diamond embedded in the pommel not worth it.

Some expensive materials and embellishments actually hurt the performance or toughness of the knife. Total waste of money.

Actually for survival and tactical, edge retention of expensive steel is NOT necessary a good thing. It can be more brittle and shatter. If you only have a knife and you need to pry, you better hope the blade is not too brittle or it'll snap. Remember for survival, you don't carry all sort of tools like pry bar and all that. Likely the knife is ALL you have. You don't want it to snap when you really need it. Mid grade steel seems to be happy balance.

Forget decoration and all that!!! Want fancy, buy a nice watch or ring!!

 

[shqxk]

For regular production knives I don't think so. There is a huge selection at different price levels.

As soon as you hit mid techs and customs and that sort of Instagram clout stuff there's no doubt that some names that command huge prices with ridiculous blades that would be tossed in the trash if they didn't have one of those names.

$995 for some kydex a shoelace and a 1.25" edge.

Without the Tracker Dan name, no people will ever pay even $30 on this...

 

[Bob Denman]

Just buy the knife... You'll forget the cost LONG before you forget how it made you feel to own it.

 

[Shorttime]

I only pay for performance. A tougher handle is worth paying extra for. A diamond embedded in the pommel not worth it.

Some expensive materials and embellishments actually hurt the performance or toughness of the knife. Total waste of money.

I think eveled answered part of the question that I should have been asking, instead of the question that I wrote down.

Let me copy off his homework, and re-frame the discussion, here.

My last couple purchases have been "collectible carries". Knives I bought mainly because I wanted them, and though I do drop them in my pocket, they don't see much use. Like these three:

The other recent purchase was something I thought was interesting, but strictly utilitarian:

This knife lives in my toolbox, and gets used for anything that wants more than a folder, but less than a prybar. I won't be trying to break it, but if it chips in use, I won't shed a single tear.

Recently, I've been thinking about saving for a folding knife which is irresponsibly expensive. For me, that's somewhere north of $500.

Strip away all the pattern-welding and pearl handles from knives, and you have a cutting tool. To "work", it must be comfortable to carry no matter how you dress, stay where you put it, be easy to remove, easy to open, comfortable to your hand, intuitive to engage the point (this is harder than you might think), hold an edge for however long you believe is "acceptable", easy to close, and easy to put away when you're done using it. For bonus french fries, it would be nice if it was fast to bring back the edge, needed only simple tools for adjusting the pivot or cleaning, and even better if it could be cleaned without taking it apart.

That's a long list, and to get all those features I probably am looking at spending several hundreds of dollars!

Now, some of you are thinking "Sebenza" already, and I understand where you're coming from. CRK does a lot of things well. Good tolerances, consistent quality control, and excellent after-purchase support. I don't like framelocks or linerlocks anymore, and I'm not looking for suggestions for a specific brand of knife, just yet.

What I should have been asking is: how do you recognize a maker or organization that is doing these things well? It's not always possible to handle a knife, and if I'm going to spend "car payment" money, I want to have as much accurate information as I can about the things I don't see when I look at a picture on the internet.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

For regular production knives I don't think so. There is a huge selection at different price levels.

As soon as you hit mid techs and customs and that sort of Instagram clout stuff there's no doubt that some names that command huge prices with ridiculous blades that would be tossed in the trash if they didn't have one of those names.

$995 for some kydex a shoelace and a 1.25" edge.

Who's the "name"?

For (me).......
Paying for a name means the Maker is actually making the knife.
*That includes it being handmade.
Whatever That means.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

I am only talk about folding knives here.

I was about to post something related to this thread. I am very surprised to see knives are being treated like a designer handbag for women, Rolex watches type of STATUS item rather than a TOOL. Never have I even dream about like this before I join knife forums and read and find out the price of some of the knives.

I am NOT advocate in buying cheap knives, but to me, at $45 to $90 range, you can really get good knives. I am not even saying the cheaper ones are all bad. Case in point, I bought a S&W on sale on Amazon for $9.95 a month ago.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007HAE5GQ?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder-t1_ypp_rep_k0_1_11&amp=&crid=1O3OGKAJI9ZMU&sprefix=s&w+folding&th=1

I actually did testing on blade hardness by hitting the spines of two knives against each other to compare who make a bigger scar. This $9.95 knife fair VERY WELL against more expensive brands(cheap in a lot of people's eyes here) like Kurbey, Steel Will etc. in $60 range.

I understand the comparison between a Kia car to Mercedes, that the Kia might be more reliable than Mercedes. BUT, the big difference between knives and other luxury items is People show off with designer handbags, Rolex watches by wearing it out in the open, it is like jewelries. You do NOT carry a knife out in open, you mostly conceal it. Even if it is legal, if you carry openly, 95% of the people will look at you strange rather than with admiration how expensive the knife is!! Hell, it's NOT that expensive even at $700!!!

To me, a knife is a TOOL, nothing more than a drill driver or circular saw that you do NOT carry openly to show off. I understand a high quality knife can cost like $100. BUT over $500 a knife? What can a $500 knife better in any way than a good $100 knife? What kind of steel use in the blade that make it so expensive?

Heat treat is NOT rocket science, I am sure people can automate the process to get as good a heat treat as any human can do. It's just programming the machine. Knife is such a LOW TECH item there's no secret about it, it's really really simple.

So why are people so into expensive knives? For me, I would not pay more than $100 for any folding knives. I bought close to 20 knives between $20 to $80. I do notice how bad some designs are. My conclusion is I have to buy it, open it to tell, test the blade hardness, not just read what kind of steel they advertise using. My most favorite knife under 3" is a CHEAP JSWS knife that was $16 when Amazon had 40% off. I look at the design, the hardness of the steel in real test. My favorite bigger knives are all Steel Will with Phosphorous Bronze washers all in $70 range. I would have gone to Cold Steel if they have flipper tap rather than thumb tap. Steel Will is about the only other one I like with PB washer.

Also I get into knives for self defense, I practice knife fight, striking on hanging heavy bags with rubber knife. There is a purpose for me. How many people actually use knife they carry other than open letters or boxes that you can do with a cheap box cutter? I do NOT use even my cheap knives to do that to preserve the edge. I use box cutter.

Important to note, I am NOT against spending a lot of money on items to show off. I am willing to buy Rolex watches, nice cars. I just cannot see spending money for a knife that I cannot show. $700 is nothing, but it's just not worth spending on a knife. Find something that can show better and spend more money.

JMHO

Not sure what to make of your writings?

You are willing to buy expensive things....Rolex watches, cars.
$700 is nothing to you.....

You practice self-defense, and it's one of your reasons for carrying a knife.

45-90 dollars is what you think is best for you......

You trust your life with a $45 knife???
When money is clearly not a factor?

(Me personally) Idc what time it is?
I'll wear a timex, and carry that 300+ dollar knife! Thank you.

 

[ferider]

Strip away all the pattern-welding and pearl handles from knives, and you have a cutting tool. To "work", it must be comfortable to carry no matter how you dress, stay where you put it, be easy to remove, easy to open, comfortable to your hand, intuitive to engage the point (this is harder than you might think), hold an edge for however long you believe is "acceptable", easy to close, and easy to put away when you're done using it. For bonus french fries, it would be nice if it was fast to bring back the edge, needed only simple tools for adjusting the pivot or cleaning, and even better if it could be cleaned without taking it apart.

That's a long list, and to get all those features I probably am looking at spending several hundreds of dollars!

What I should have been asking is: how do you recognize a maker or organization that is doing these things well? It's not always possible to handle a knife, and if I'm going to spend "car payment" money, I want to have as much accurate information as I can about the things I don't see when I look at a picture on the internet.

If that’s what you want, buy yourself a Spyderco. The only argument against them, that I have seen, is that some people find them ugly, but beauty is not part of your criteria.

As a family business, they operate mostly at fixed margin, and have so many models, opening mechanisms, locks and steels, that you should be able to find one meeting your functionality needs.